Welding Tips and Tricks

I've got scattered topics and pictures all over this forum regarding the repairs I do.

I decided to put all that stuff on one page from now on, as I've caught myself hi-jacking other topics with it.

Here's today's find, which put the project on hold. This is a major structral member, and the second of six likely locations on this member to show this kind of damage.

There are nine cracked areas in that five inches. I proved two of them were leaking. For this to show up here, and in two locations, tells me we were lied to about the orginal failure. This thing was in a collision, and probably on the yard... The yard truck hit something with this trailer attached.

Steve S

Do you ever get trailers that are beyond repair and scrapped or are they too valuable to do that?

I only know of one that was scrapped, and it was burned in an accident. Most of the external structure and piping was severly damaged. in credit to it's design, the vessel never ruptured, and no one was hurt.


It's currently about three million dollars to replace one, with a three-year lead time. They'll take extreme measures to keep a trailer in service.

Steve S

I personally don't mind if you hijack one of my posts with an example. There's room for even the slightest relevancy.
Great work on these tankers.

Thanks, Jeff,

I've noticed there's some interest on this, as I've seen on the great work you do with aluminum.

I've also noticed some interest in the testing methods I use to find this stuff. It just seemed easier to make a place for it, rather than scattering it all over the forum.

Steve S

I can certainly understand that and I agree. I thought of doing the same to mine. The only upside to having multiple topics really is, the titles may cover more search terms in the archives when using the search feature. I'm not that up on using forums so that point may be moot.

LOL. . .I can't wait to use the washer/backer trick.

There's been a lot of discussion regarding the fix for my cracked structure problem.

The current leaning, is to cut out the remaining parts of the "wagon wheel", and cap the entire damaged structure with a live doubler, meaning I'll wrap the screwed-up pipe with a custom-rolled section that JUST slides over it, tie it in structurally with multiple plug welds, and seal it vacuum-tight with a lap-weld at the back (after gouging out the fillet welds already there), and a groove-weld at the face.

I'm dubious, as the doubler will be tied to a seriously compromised pipe that I cannot practically stop-drill all the cracks in. I'm pushing for, at a minimum, sectioning out everything outside the rear head, and back-gouging to undamaged metal. Then an open-root butt-weld of replacement pipe, TIG root, hot, and maybe a fill, then MIG fillets to round the contact area.

This does not preclude damage to the same pipe inside the head; The working theory is based on the idea that the calcium salts used to de-ice roads when plain salt is scarce are somehow affecting the metal. I'm not convinced, but they have strong circumstantial evidence.

Steve S

Well, today, the boss decided we'll do it my way.

I figured he would, but if it's an expensive decision, he takes responsibility for it. (That's rare, these days, and I appreciate it.)

Today I cut out the rest of the "spokes", and cleaned the 2" of the cracked pipe closest to the head. I wanted to shoot them with dye-penetrant, to see how close to the head the cracks were. That's close.

This will be a 5G-R, with emphasis on the "R", but at least the head is the only obstruction. I'll put up another pic after I cut out the defective section.

Steve S

Steve,

Great work as is the norm. Is your current gig the one you had just scored (near December ?) that required the big travel, and commensurate big dollars ? You should change your handle the traveling vacuum trailer whisperer !

Thanks.

That would be a year ago December, when I went to Pennsylvania (again).

I've since returned to a shop near home that specializes in this stuff. They offered me more money than when I left, and have lots of benefits I didn't have on the road. I've been back home almost 11 months.

Steve S

I must have read an old post ! That is awesome. Home is home. Are the super bowlers causing any chaos as of yet ?

I'm on the north shore, so I only see an increase in interstate traffic.

However, the state cops are out in force, even in the early morning on my way to work, and I see them on the way home, too.

These local retards will be holding me up in the passing lane, driving 65 in a 70 zone, see the cop, and hit the damn brakes!

I'll coast right on by at 75, when I have the chance. If you're not doing 80, they pay no notice unless you're doing something really stupid.

What is the alloy of member in the photo?

Good luck on the actual weekend of the game !

@ O12LDY, thanks! I'm not going ANYWHERE this weekend. Too many ameteur drunks on the road.

@ Alexa, its 304. The replacement piece will be 316, on the assumption the theory about non- sodium-chloride road deicers has merit.

Steve S

Before I cut the crappy section out, I pressured the annulus (the space between inner and outer vessels) to look for the unexpected. I snooped (soap tested) all exposed metal on the rear head, and found nothing, as I expected. I also snooped the piece of crap metal I'm replacing, and found three leaks. Two appear in this picture.

What is the stuff that looks like bondo. . .is that the paint?

Sort of... That's paint stained by the red dye penetrant I use.

Any place I didn't take the paint to bare metal, but did scuff it, the penetrant soaks in, so the developer turns it red.

So, I wonder why this one leaks? Sorry for the crappy pic. I forgot my camera, took this with my phone. I'll get a better shot Monday or Tuesday.

This is the inner tank of a liquid argon trailer. That crumple zone follows a weld across the entire bottom half. I guess you could say that weld failed it's "bend test".

Steve S

I can see why you likely enjoy job security with these tasks. I never would have guessed that this happens with as much frequency as you have shown here. A good look at a totally different aspect of unique specialization in the welding trade. I try to imagine the road that takes someone to a skill like that. Where did you start to actually end up specializing at this?

Jeff,

It was a long and circuitous path, and I never saw this destination. I'm 44 years old, and I've worked about 25 different jobs in eight completely different fields, yet always returned to welding/fabricating/mechanical work. I always liked building things and getting dirt under my nails.

About six years ago, I suffered a financial disaster, that put my wife and me on the ragged edge of homelessness. I couldn't make enough money in Springfield, MO to dig myself out of that hole... Water, power, and gas shut off and locked out in winter, and no money for rent. Then came the ice storm. An odd example of "God works in mysterious ways", I guess. My friend at the electric company called me and told me I could ignore the Mayor's public statement... They were waiving all liscensing/permitting requirements for electricians due to the overwhelming nature of the emergency. There were a half-million without power in sub-freezing weather. I could reattach torn weatherheads and meter boxes all day long, and as long as they met the code, CU would reconnect power, no questions asked. I made $3K in less than a week, mostly from insurance companies, and hauled ass to IA for my first industrial job. That set me on my current path.

On that first job, I was hired over the phone on a man's word, drove 800 miles, and went to work for "welder III" pay. four months later, I was at "top-out" pay. From there, I learned valves, valve operators, pipe fitting, instrument fitting, and TIG welding. Many more lessons.

Then, the economy went in the tank, and, in spite of what I had learned, I didn't have enough years at it to find a job. I did have money in the bank, so I listened to my wife, and moved to S. LA. Since I knew nothing about the local job market, I took my resume' to a local temp/staffing agency. They gave me some BS work right away, then turned me on to my current gig. I had all the background, understood the theory, and knew how to take a learning curve on two wheels.

Sorry for the long story....

Steve S

Man, your story sounds enough like mine to be scary. I'm about to head down that path of uncertainty again here real soon. And people wonder why I never lose track of my drywall tools. I was worried initially, until it occurs to me that at least my kids are grown and on their own now.

I am always curious, especially when it seems that someone is as happily employed as you let on.

Thought I'd get some better pics today. No dice... I spent two hours inside this thing with two bosses, being "trained" on an inner-vessel inspection, to see whether other damage and condition issues were too extensive to justify the repair of the primary issue. One of the bosses was just absorbing oxygen, learning right alongside me. The report is being sent to the client, to determine whether we procede, or they scrap it. (This is not a $3M hydrogen trailer, so the price-point is important.)

I was impressed these two fat phukers could squeeze through the baffles...

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:I was impressed these two fat phukers could squeeze through the baffles...

Steve S

LOL. . .My boss is rather portly. He takes a joke well about it tho.

In some earlier posts, you thought the damage may have been caused in the yard by a driver running into something with the trailer ( something like that, sorry if i paraphrase you).If that's the case, who makes the decision to scrap it, the insurance company or the trailer owners?