Welding Tips and Tricks

Hello welders and cutting torch operators everywhere: did you know that nothing on earth are more similar to small meteorites - micrometeorites - than slag, cinder, "pearls" and leftovers from welding and cutting torches?



Every day, everywhere on Earth, microscopic to sand size grains fall down upon us from outer space! These small objects (app 40 tons each year!) are wonderful small messengers from the beginning of our solar system, and they can actually be found everywhere. Most of them are small, metallic spheres (see photo above). However, in all urban environements you also find lots of rest material from welding and cutting torches. Right now amateurs and scientists gather to try to find a way to distinguish the two. The day - if! - we do, this will be a revolution in our knowledge about space! We know, from secure locations with no welding, like prehistoric glaciers, on the South Pole, etc, that these very important small objects are there, here, and everywhere, but until we find methods to separate them from our terrestrial "contamination" we can not really be sure what's what.

Consequently, we are a group of people who have set out to try to solve this mystery. Are you interested in participating? Any tip? Share from your experiece? You are most welcome: just send me a message: project.stardust@getmail.no

Being the son of a professional welder, I regret I did not learn more about welding when I could, however now I try to learn. About the tools, the methods, the chemistry, physics of welding, metal combustion, etc. Somehow, I do believe we will, eventually succeed in finding methods to separate the extraterreriel material from the other. Perhaps your participation will make a difference?

Her are some more info about our research: http://www.facebook.com/projectstardust ... 2003753026 - welcome, and leave a comment. When you see our photogallery (it is growing every week), perhaps you recognize something from your own work?

Thanks for your attention, and remember: perhaps your participation can help us solve this mystery!

PROJECT STARDUST
Jon Larsen
project.stardust@getmail.no

So what's your take on these? I'm pretty sure I know what they are, but won't say so as to not lead you one direction or the other.

Wow! I am absolutely not an expert on meteorites in the macro size, but I grew up in a place where they had been melting iron (I do not know the proper English words for this and the process when you burn the raw material from nature to get the iron, sorry), and these photos, to me, looks like the remaining slag... I don't know. And I'm curious about the facit?

Yes, that's my best guess as well. I live in an old house that used to have a coal furnace, and my backyard is absolutely full of the stuff in the pic. The only thing that still leaves me with a tiny flicker of doubt about it being coal slag is that they have areas that are obviously iron (highly magnetic, rusts) and areas that are some kind of stone and others that are black glass that looks almost volcanic, but nowhere in any of them are ANY inclusions of... coal.

Hm...

Coal is sedimentary in nature. Layer upon layer of organic material accumulating in swamps and bogs, easily inundated by floods, tsunamis, etc. There are a lot of things in coal that are not carbon, especially low grades ( cheap) so the "clinkers" can have all sorts of mineral content in them, including iron-bearing minerals, and plain 'ol rocks.

Steve

Yeah yeah, I get that - but why's there never any chunks of coal in the slag? I'm assuming the slag was 'made' in the furnace, and not brought in on the truck that delivered the loads of coal. Is it because all the coal is burned off before the slag had a chance to accumulate?

turbo388 wrote:Yeah yeah, I get that - but why's there never any chunks of coal in the slag? I'm assuming the slag was 'made' in the furnace, and not brought in on the truck that delivered the loads of coal. Is it because all the coal is burned off before the slag had a chance to accumulate?

There's still coal in there. It's diffuse; the concentrated coal is now ash. The diffuse coal remaining is stained by the oxides of the metals and minerals remaining when "most" of the coal burned off.

If you've ever been to a blacksmith's shop, you know coal can burn hot enough to melt iron and steel. Don't over-complicate the problem.

Steve

But do any of you guys know how how to separate the small spheres of iron oxide created by an ox fuel cutting torch from apperently identical iron oxide spheres created by a falling star? Would any of you be willing to send me - on behalf of "science and progress" (he-he, but I'm serious) some examples of the various types of rest material from oxy fule cutting torches (from cutting various metal?) and welding?

Not much is needed - perhaps a tablespoon or two - but it's important to know exactly what it is (type "cast iron cut by oxy fuel cutting torch", or "medium carbon steel welded with so-and-so type material". Anyone?

Here's my postal address: Jon Larsen, PO Box 5202 Majorstua, 0302 Oslo, Norway. It's no money involved, but you will be credited as source in the final papers.

Meanwhile I am trying to get an overview over all the different types of welding, and specificly what chemical elements are involved. Any tips? In several of the "micrometeorites" (of dubious character) we find along our roads, there are ingredients of glass (even tiny glass "beads", often with bubbles), what types of welding may create that? Or half iron oxide/half glass beads? And very often some white "clay-like" stuff together with small iron oxide (FeO) spheres - you find lots of photos of hese things on our facebook site mentioned on top here.

If we can find out about these things, and solve some of the mysteries around micro-meteorites vs slag, etc (created by welding and oxy fuel cutting torch) - that would be a great day for meteorite hunters around the world!

Thank you in advance!
Jon

I'll give that some thought.

I could probably provide samples of carbon and 304 stainless steel cut with plasma, carbon steel and possibly cast iron cut with oxy-acetylene, and weld spatter spherules from carbon steel and 304 stainless. Perhaps slag from SMAW welds of various metals (these will contain the glass and clays you referred to).

Are you gathering evidence for a particular hypothesis? If you are looking at the influence of stars on the formation of micrometioroids/ites, I'd think the residue from plasma cutting would be the most pertinent. Oxy-fuel cutting uses a far higher amount of oxygen than is found in space, while plasma is abundant near stars.

Wow. I just realized I could probably create samples of iron cut with helium plasma. Would this be of help?

Steve

P.S. Are you working on a Doctoral or Post-Doctoral thesis here?

Wow check out the big brains on Steve!

Since you seem to know alot about it, what exactly is the "plasma" produced by a plasma cutter?

Plasma is a state of matter where the heat is so intense that atomic nuclei and electrons can no longer hold on to each other. This makes the flow of current through the jet of air from the plasma torch possible and self-sustaining. The "plasma", then, is the superheated, ionized air that is cutting the metal.

The Sun's corona is mostly plasma, in the million degree range. Oddly, the Sun's surface is about 11.000 degrees, near the temperature of a stick-welding arc.

That's why this fellow's questions interest me.

Steve

Hello again, Steve, and many thanks for your swift, and positive reply.

YES - (actually; YES!!!!!) - I am very, very interested in this, and your offer to participate is most appreciated.

In order for this to have the optimal scientific value, it is very important to (as best as we can) to separate the various samples, and be as specific as possible in the notes (what exactly that particular sample is). Just use the normal/common terminology (so other welders, in future references, understand).

Do you want me send you some small, clean snap seal plastic bags, a magnet (for picking up small particles), etc? Here's my private email address, just tell me if you want me to send this to you , and to what address. If you do not need this, here's my postal address: Jon Larsen, PO Box 5202 Majorstua, 0302 Oslo, Norway. Make sure you leave a return address, so at least I can send you some music in return.

Thank you very, much!!

Our Project Stardust was initiated last year, by yours truly, and is now a loosly connected bunch of scientists (geology/astronomy/chemistry) who in our free hours try to solve a mystery: micrometeorites are a fact (described from what they have found in the South Pole Water Well - in the ice layers from app year 800-1200, before industrialisation, and there are app 25 different types+-), and the calculated rate of fall on Earth (ground) is "one particle at 0,2 mm diameter, per square meter, per year". This is quite a lot, in sum at least 40 ton per year! Nevertheless, several of our industrial/human activities also create small ojects that look confusingly similar to micrometeorites - and welding and oxy fuel cutting torch products are the most similar. Because of this, scientists have never done research on the "spherules" found in industriel/urban areas, it has simply been too difficult to diffrenciate the one (extraterrestriel ojects) from the other (artefacts). Our project is about finding methodes - if possible - to separate these two. So far we have made a lot of new discoveries, and my personal hunch is that if we manage to separate the various objects you can provide, from the very similar extraterrestriel ones - then the road is open to us. And science get 40 tons of very, very interesting space material to study, each year! Practically for free.

We have a facebookpage about this (including a growing collection of photos!): Project Stardust - Jon Larsen, welcome to join us! You - the experts on these artefacts - leave comments!

At the moment there are none of us who are working against a PhD on this (I am the only one of us, actually, without one, and I do not care about that kind of things), but they will come, within a few years. This is cutting edge science, and a lot of disciplines will benefit from this; remember that nasa and Japan in 2010-11 alone, have spent billions of $ in order to get a few milligram of space dust from an asteroide back to Earth. In the future - maybe - one can just sweep up the same objects with a broom, or a magnet, from any pavement. And we'll learn a lot more about the beginning of the universe, and ultimately, who we are.

And re. temperature on the sun, etc: the micrometeorites are not created by the sun, it is vice versa: the sun was created by gravitational forces in the original cloud of dust that created our solar system. And later the planets, etc. The main part of the micrometeorites are dustparticles from this ancient, original cloud, older than our own solar system! And they still "rain" silently down upon us. It is their dramatic passage through our atmosphere which melt them, and - as the other guy pointed out - add the oxygen (which is not present in the sun). So when you see a falling star, you can think of it as a very similar process to the weldin/cutting torch: iron + oxygen at high temperature. The sparkling result is the same, the iron oxide FeO (II-iron), a mineral called wüstite, practically absent on Earth, but is found in a few meteorites, and is common in micrometeorites. And you, propably, see this every day.

Once again: thank you, Steve! And if other gentlemen out there want to participate with more samples from their welding/oxy fuel cutting torch debris, you are most welcome to join the party.

Sincerely yours,
PROJECT STARDUST
Jon Larsen

Jon,

I do not suggest that micrometeoroids are "created" by the sun, but rather influenced in their formation by the burst of plasma and accompanying shock wave at the ignition of our sun. Further, not all micrometeoroids enter our atmosphere at hypersonic speeds. I expect many to be orbiting in the plane of the proto-solar disk in appropriate orbital velocities, and entering slowly through simple gravity capture (accretion). Particles of these sizes and small masses entering at low initial velocities should land relatively unperturbed by their trip through the atmosphere.

I only have access to the most common Fe isotope, and do not have the equipment to safely attempt creating H plasma, thus I suggested He plasma. I'm not even sure my available equipment can do it. I'm accustomed to using free air or pure N2 to cut with plasma.

This experiment (obviously) interests me, and I will attempt to create a variety of samples. I appreciate your offer of materials (bags), but I have free access to the packaging required. I'm more interested in a suggestion for a suitable collecting surface. I cannot simply sweep the floor; The pock-marks and craters are filled with years of junk. Any metal sheet I would use to collect would tend to contaminate the sample, at least on one side, since it will tend to fuse. I'm leaning toward glass, unless aerogel is commercially available.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Steve

Jon, I realize you're 'casting a wide net' to get samples from where they come from in the real world, but have you considered going the other direction as well - renting/buying/borrowing a plasma cutter setup to get your own samples? I can see how it might help, even if only to act as a control so you can compare what you make with that process with what others send in.

Steve - for collection, what about a temporary shallow tray of sand? It'd give the samples a soft landing with minimal contamination and be super easy to collect afterwards by just stirring the sand with a magnet.

Hello again, Steve, and you are absolutely right: a wide net. AND I will also try to rent some gear, AND ask for more samples at our local workshops. That is a safety net, try see if we get the same result from various sources (as many as possible). One day's drive from here is one of the main building sites for oil installations in Europe, super welders. And YES - a sand tray under is perfect, because out along our roads (where the dust is accumulated, and where we do find a lot of micrometeorites), sand is normally what the artefacts land on. We have been confused for a while about that: first it looked as if some micrometeorites contained mineral grains, but aftr a while we suspected that this was partly soft melt from oxy fuel cutting torch, rolling in the sand before stiffening.

Thank you once again. I'll upload an album of photos (at our facebook site: Project Stardust - Jon Larsen) with variations of objects I suspect to be products from the cutting torch, and/or welding. Hm.. actually, when I think of it, there are some dubious (meteoritewise) bubbely glass, yellow, clear and/or green, sometimes even black, to be found a lot of places... Even is perfect spheres (diameter 0,4 - 1 mm), mainly green, black or orange, with tiny gas bubbles inside. Could be a new type of meteorites, but could also be artefacts. And then there's something that looks like very dark blue-green, practically black slag, with very, very tiny bobbles, and sometimes covered by a thin layer of FeO.... hmm... And finally, the strange "aggregates" we find everywhere: hundreds of very small (0,2-1 mm) shiny FeO spherules in a grey/white matrix - sometimes like clay, but mostly hard lik chalk. And sometimes connected to the previously mentioned black slag with the very tiny bubbles.

I have photographed these things for a year now (more than 20.000 photos), and think I will recognize these phenomena in most varieties.

Again, your help is most appreciated!

Best wishes,
Jon

Colors, you say?

Wt@#! What is this beauty? Not so easy to see the details, but I get the outline... amazing!

Jon, first off, this is a very interesting post. All winds start at the south pole and end at the north pole so the South Pole is the most logical location for capturing the purest dust and the very reason why operation Deep Freeze is there. We capture and measure atmospheric contamination at the North Pole. These guys like to talk so you might try writing to them. It might save you a lot of work and certainly a lot of trips to the recylcer when all this slag starts arriving at your door.

Aha! Thanks again for the info. But what is the photo?

Turbo388,

Sand sounds like the perfect capture medium. Thanks for the suggestion. I have access to very clean sand used in our media blasting.

Steve

Jon, I believe I have enough information now (thanks to turbo388's suggestion) to begin collecting some samples, beginning Monday. I'll create as broad an array as I have the materials and equipment for.

If it's not obvious yet, I'm familiar with the scientific method, and the samples will be annotated as accurately as I am able.

Steve.

The last photo I posted? I have no idea, just another one of the weird things that inhabit my back yard. That one is about 3cm x 5cm oblong, very light, and non-magnetic.

Thank you very much! And yes, Steve, that is obvious...!
Jon

Jon,

Another thought occurred to me, and it might take some time to achieve results.

Suppose a bank of magnets, covering, say, a square meter and covered with a thin UV-resistant plastic film were placed film-side-up 10 meters above ground level in a rural (or at least a non-industrial) area. Barring a major wind storm, any particles captured by this bank of magnets would very likely have extraterrestrial origins, and provide a clear control group.

Further, an accumulation rate per square meter could be deduced for iron-bearing micrometeorites.

The plastic film would provide for easy collection.

Just a thought...

Steve