Miller 252 Voltage Question

ScottSans · Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:27 pm

So I purchased a Millermatic 252 my first MIG machine

Please keep in mind I have experience with TIG and STICK but never MIG

I am in an industrial space and I use my Syncrowave 250 on 460v

Miller offers two options for the Millermatic 252 (200/230v) and (230/460/575)

I opted for the (230/460/575) so I can save money on my electric bill

I currently have the machine hooked up to 3 Phase WYE and the voltage reads 210v L1 + L2

Im running it this way because i dont have an extra 460 plug yet.

The machine turns on without error and seems to be fine, however I cant get the machine to weld, it just spatters and spits out wire, am I just not understanding how to MIG weld or could the 20 deprived volts be the issue?

I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!

Bill Beauregard · Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:19 pm

I would expect reduced output, voltage is lower than minimum. Is gas flowing? Can you hear it? Might your polarity be reversed? What's your wire? I'd begin by changing voltage, but I doubt that's what's wrong. Make very sure your ground connections are very clean.

ScottSans · Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:39 pm

Thanks Bill!

.030 wire

polarity + to gun - to work.

gas is flowing and I can hear it, i thought it was ground but i connected it directly to the metal and its not.

could it be that i just have the wrong settings?

Braehill · Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:20 am

Scott,
I'm no Mig expert by any means, but a few things that I found that will give you fits are that the gun is not fully inserted into the machine and this limits the gas flow by having the gas ports half blocked and the polarity wrong for the wire type. Make sure that it's getting good gas flow, you can loosen the drive wheels and pull the trigger to check this without feeding out a bunch of wire. Your polarity you stated is right for bare wire and gas.

Len

MinnesotaDave · Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:11 pm

ScottSans wrote:So I purchased a Millermatic 252 my first MIG machine

Please keep in mind I have experience with TIG and STICK but never MIG

I am in an industrial space and I use my Syncrowave 250 on 460v

Miller offers two options for the Millermatic 252 (200/230v) and (230/460/575)

I opted for the (230/460/575) so I can save money on my electric bill

I currently have the machine hooked up to 3 Phase WYE and the voltage reads 210v L1 + L2

Im running it this way because i dont have an extra 460 plug yet.

The machine turns on without error and seems to be fine, however I cant get the machine to weld, it just spatters and spits out wire, am I just not understanding how to MIG weld or could the 20 deprived volts be the issue?

I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!

Use one hand on the gun, and one to dial the voltage up/down to find the sweet spot.

When you get down too low on voltage, you'll feel the wire stubbing into the metal.
When the volts get too high, the arc will spatter and be unstable.
Your goal is in the middle somewhere.

You may want more amps on 1/8" though, try 300-350 ipm (or more) and dial it in the same as above.

I run my shielding gas at 25cfh.

ScottSans · Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:13 pm

Thanks Dave, I will try in the morning!

So is the consensus, I just dont know what im doing, and its not a primary input voltage problem?

Bill Beauregard · Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:57 pm

I'll try to read up on the subject. I was of the belief the 252 was single phase. I have one, I love it! It is the nicest, most pleasant welder I have ever used. I can't imagine a nicer welder. Three phase, I don't know.

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:04 pm

Bill Beauregard wrote:I'll try to read up on the subject. I was of the belief the 252 was single phase. I have one, I love it! It is the nicest, most pleasant welder I have ever used. I can't imagine a nicer welder. Three phase, I don't know.

Quite right! I had a brain fart. Our 252 is single-phase

I need to delete and edit.

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:22 pm

ScottSans,

Bill is right...

You are not on three-phase, but 210 split-phase, which is a single-phase arrangement. You should have 210-240 between L1 and L2, and 105-120 between both L1 and common/ground, and L2 and common/ground.

The difference between 210 and 240 should mean nothing to that machine's output. The only difference will be a slight one in power consumption/heat produced.

Steve S

bigworm40 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:25 pm

ScottSans wrote:I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!

Thats your problem right there, you should be using 75/25.

AKweldshop · Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:23 am

bigworm40 wrote:

Thats your problem right there, you should be using 75/25.

He's using 75/25.....don't worry....

AKweldshop · Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:23 am

bigworm40 wrote:
ScottSans wrote:I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!
That's your problem right there, you should be using 75/25.

FYI.

: IMG_4221.JPG (50.37 KiB) Viewed 2476 times

Bill Beauregard · Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:28 am

AKweldshop wrote:
bigworm40 wrote:
ScottSans wrote:I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!
That's your problem right there, you should be using 75/25.
FYI.

IMG_4221.JPG

Jody did a video using CO2 I'd guess 25/75 is somewhat like that. What's the CO2 added to steel mix do? Is it just to reduce cost? Or does it serve a purpose. The so called expert at Airgas told me I could use 75/25 for back purge with stainless. He sold me an exotic mix of helium, CO2, and O2 for MIG stainless. It was less than a proud success.

AKweldshop · Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:43 pm

Bill Beauregard wrote:
AKweldshop wrote:

FYI.

IMG_4221.JPG
Jody did a video using CO2 I'd guess 25/75 is somewhat like that. What's the CO2 added to steel mix do? Is it just to reduce cost? Or does it serve a purpose. The so called expert at Airgas told me I could use 75/25 for back purge with stainless. He sold me an exotic mix of helium, CO2, and O2 for MIG stainless. It was less than a proud success.

Bill,
Your reading it wrong.
I don't believe anyone sells 25% ar/75% co2.

Look at my pic again.

Co2 is an active gas.

Bill Beauregard · Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:48 pm

I'm not very observant. So they do it backward in Alaska. Still I wonder why we use any level of CO2 in inert gas. Is it less pure? Cost less to manufacture?

Superiorwelding · Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:37 pm

Bill Beauregard wrote:I'm not very observant. So they do it backward in Alaska. Still I wonder why we use any level of CO2 in inert gas. Is it less pure? Cost less to manufacture?

John should be able to explain what CO2, or any active gas, does to your arc, bead profile and why we add it. Also why we use argon and what it actually does.
-Jonathan

AKweldshop · Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:44 am

Superiorwelding wrote:
Bill Beauregard wrote:I'm not very observant. So they do it backward in Alaska. Still I wonder why we use any level of CO2 in inert gas. Is it less pure? Cost less to manufacture?
John should be able to explain what CO2, or any active gas, does to your arc, bead profile and why we add it. Also why we use argon and what it actually does.
-Jonathan

Here's some good info on the subject....

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0SO8xYQ ... r2oE9A0Wc-

Bill Beauregard · Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:51 am

Thanks John. The things you never knew you never knew.

bigworm40 · Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:07 am

AKweldshop wrote:
bigworm40 wrote:
ScottSans wrote:I am welding 1/8 mild steel , 18v/ 250wire speed (16on the tank 25/75)

any help would be great thanks!
That's your problem right there, you should be using 75/25.
FYI.

IMG_4221.JPG

This a tough crowd.. It was a joke.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:20 pm

...
This a tough crowd.. It was a joke.

Not a tough crowd. Just serious about the subject, so we don't always recognize a joke in the middle of a discussion.

I've had it happen to me, and these guys all know I'm a joker.

Steve S

ldbtx · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:39 pm

Braehill wrote:Scott,
I'm no Mig expert by any means, but a few things that I found that will give you fits are that the gun is not fully inserted into the machine and this limits the gas flow by having the gas ports half blocked and the polarity wrong for the wire type. Make sure that it's getting good gas flow, you can loosen the drive wheels and pull the trigger to check this without feeding out a bunch of wire. Your polarity you stated is right for bare wire and gas.

Len

That happened to one of my student workers when we got a 252 for our shop in the science building at the university I work at. He put the rig together and didn't get the gun in all the way, Drove us nuts until the Airgas rep we'd bought it from asked if the gun was fully inserted. We looked, it wasn't, we felt like idiots and fixed it. Welds great now. Just one of those live and learn things that bites us all in the butt from time to time.

ldb

Braehill · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:44 pm

Idb,
Ask me how I knew that little mistake.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Superiorwelding · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:33 pm

Braehill wrote:Idb,
Ask me how I knew that little mistake.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok.....How do you know that little mistake???

-Jonathan

Braehill · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:40 pm

I actually did it twice and I seldom Mig weld. The first one was the first time in my life I ever mig welded and when I bought the Lincoln 180 I have now. I had it on the wrong polarity and the torch wasn't seated. Those welds were anything but nice.

Len

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:27 pm

I always check all torch connections, cables, switches before calling in our sparkies. I learned the hard way, when they flick a switch or tighten a cable. Embarrassing.