Welding Tips and Tricks

Hey Guys I see a lot of talk about certified welders and I have read alot about what it involves but I don't see many pictures, what dose some of the welds look like? I am trying to figure out I am from being able to become a certified welder. How do they test the welds, xray?

Doesn't actually work that way. You get certified for a particular jobsite project and on certain materials-techniques. When that job is over you're technically no longer certed and start over on the next job.
Sometimes an engineer might come and want some off the wall materials used and request you GET certified in order to get the contract.Aviation, aerospace, hazmat those sorts of things.
That's part of why the AW$ exi$t$. Bu$ine$$.

Jason_alex wrote:Hey Guys I see a lot of talk about certified welders and I have read alot about what it involves but I don't see many pictures, what dose some of the welds look like? I am trying to figure out I am from being able to become a certified welder. How do they test the welds, xray?

How they test will vary by what code their testing to. What do they look like, depends on the joint, the process etc.

Antorcha wrote:Doesn't actually work that way. You get certified for a particular jobsite project and on certain materials-techniques. When that job is over you're technically no longer certed and start over on the next job.
Sometimes an engineer might come and want some off the wall materials used and request you GET certified in order to get the contract.Aviation, aerospace, hazmat those sorts of things.
That's part of why the AW$ exi$t$. Bu$ine$$.

Yes you are going to have to qualify on the part, process etc of your employer, but you can get an indefinite card from a testing facility, but noone will use it as a qualifier, but it does give you a leg up on the résumé. And yes it's $$$$

When I was at the shipyard we ran our own school and certified our welders in house.
(we built submarines)

Seen many a supposed certified welder come through our school and fail miserably.

Some testing was visual and destructive. Others may also include x-ray, mag particle, UT and/or PT.

rake wrote:When I was at the shipyard we ran our own school and certified our welders in house.
(we built submarines)

Seen many a supposed certified welder come through our school and fail miserably.

Some testing was visual and destructive. Others may also include x-ray, mag particle, UT and/or PT.

Yea 9 out of 10 "welders" can't pass a test.

I work on parts that get made for those submarines and shipped to you guys

Jason_alex wrote:Hey Guys I see a lot of talk about certified welders and I have read alot about what it involves but I don't see many pictures, what dose some of the welds look like? I am trying to figure out I am from being able to become a certified welder. How do they test the welds, xray?

As you see from others, a "certified welder" is in fact subjective. However, depending on what type of cert you are going after, there are a few that do carry weight and will help you get a job or if nothing else get that interview.
First realize, like others have said, you might/will have to retake a test to suit the potential employee or shop. With that said If you are going after steel try to take a D1.1 3G 1" in stick and Mig. This will cover you for most welding shops. The stick will cover field erections/installs and the Mig will cover the shop work. I have the 1G in Mig for the shop because all my welding there is in position. Also this will cover you for 24" and up pipe.
When it comes to pipe, my advice is to practice what you know you will take for a job. Again having a 6G on 2" sch 80 does not necessarily cover you on 8" and so on.
If you were to have your own shop than by all means, take the all the certs that apply to what you would be doing, as these will be good "forever".
There is a lot of misconception and ideas on what certs to take and where they apply, so you will get a lot of ideas. The best thing I would advise is look at what specific area you want to head and see what test will get you there. Hope this helps.
Jody has numerous videos on all types of welding tests.
-Jonathan

Just keep in mind that AWS D1.1 does not allow short circuit GMAW without going through a procedure qualification. So if you want to qualify welders to that code it will definitely be AW$$$$$'s.

Okay guys, lots of great information just to clear up things little more. I am a welder for a company currently (part owner) We have had a few customers come in looking to have things built but a very small mount needs to be certified. It would be Mig and they are frames we have the ability to lift it turn it flip it as needed. I was wondering if there way a way to get certified and re-certificate when ever I need to be the certified welder didn't know if it would be better to do it through the company or on my own.

"Certified" and "qualified" mean VERY different things.

I'm "qualified" in dozens of processes and positions, because I meet my employer's (and by extension, our client's) qualifications for the welds I do. These qualifications DO NOT transfer, should I change jobs.

I'm "certified" to ASME section IX by the national board, through a more rigorous testing, for materials to 1/2" in any position for austinitic stainless steels. This certification DOES transfer... As long as I can document a "passing" weld in the last six months, I'm certified. However, the records of my certification are held (and paid for) by my employer, so transferring them may be a challenge. I would have to demand copies of the test results, and all welds under the code since...

Steve S

Jason_alex wrote:Okay guys, lots of great information just to clear up things little more. I am a welder for a company currently (part owner) We have had a few customers come in looking to have things built but a very small mount needs to be certified. It would be Mig and they are frames we have the ability to lift it turn it flip it as needed. I was wondering if there way a way to get certified and re-certificate when ever I need to be the certified welder didn't know if it would be better to do it through the company or on my own.

First you need to find out what specific test or tests are required to weld their products. The customer should provide you with the WPS and you can take the test with a witness and send it to a local testing lab. The testing lab is not very expensive at all. There are two ways of looking at certifying through your company verses you personally. If you test through the company, it will stay there and if you leave or the company folds, you lost your cert. I am sure you are a "employee" of the company, thus taking it through you personally will allow the company to use it and you can take it with you if you ever depart. It really is in how you set your company up and what you require. I would advise to go through your company, although some of mine are personal just in case.
Steve is correct on the qualified vs certified. Most welders out there are qualified welders but not certified welders. Unfortunately it has been my experience that if one leaves having certs through a company, they all have lost those certs and the employer has never been willing to give them up. Not saying you can't get them Steve.
I know of one welder that left having his D1.1 in various forms and demanded his certs only to find that they are in the companies name, therefore not transferable. I later found out that this same company supposedly was securing contracts riding on this welders certs, who had left 2 years earlier.
One thing to always remember is, in theory, if you pass them once you can always take them again.
Anyway more of my 2 cents and opinions.
-Jonathan

How does one sign up to take these tests I've looked at the a.w.s site to no avail any help is appreciated!

JDIGGS82 wrote:How does one sign up to take these tests I've looked at the a.w.s site to no avail any help is appreciated!

You could call your local community college and see where they send their students tests for testing. A lot of the labs have a section with machines and you can take your standard tests there.

MINE DOESNT OFFER THE CERT CLASS UNFORTUNATELY HAS ANYONE ELSE ON HERE HAD TO TAKE TEM AND OR FIGURE IT OUT

JDIGGS82 wrote:MINE DOESNT OFFER THE CERT CLASS UNFORTUNATELY HAS ANYONE ELSE ON HERE HAD TO TAKE TEM AND OR FIGURE IT OUT

Why are you yelling? Took all of three seconds to find this:

From the aws site:

The Certified Welder (CW) program test to procedures used in the structural steel, petroleum pipelines, sheet metal and chemical refinery welding industries. There is a provision to test to a company-supplied or non-code welding specification. Access the Accredited Test Facility to find a facility near you or call AWS at (800) 443-WELD, ext 273.

Well I apologize, I couldn't find it wasn't yelling was half asleep trying to use the iPad thanks for the info it's appreciated

I'll bet I'm not saying anything new or original: this all sounds pretty messy and unsatisfactory, to me.

I know I am in the toy welder category, only welding steel, only welding up to 12 mm and mostly up to about 5 mm, and doing all of that in FCAWss. But I know what I am looking at, how to square it up, how to tack it strong, how to limit distortion and to melt it all together so that it stays OK. I can clean up my work, and finish it well. And I know the next job might throw me something that sets me back on my heels. So I don't get too cocky.

But if I had done a test on all this, and did the work again and again for some years, I would be mightily annoyed if (a) the piece of paper for my test wasn't in my name, and (b) the paper didn't travel with me until I produced results that were good reason for someone to require me to do another test.

Also, the training I have done, and the texts I have read, did not make the slipperiness of all this certification clear.

Thank goodness, for me, no-one stops and asks me if I have paperwork that says I can weld up their shed frames, their steps, their doors, their storage containers, their tanks, or repair their boat trailers, etc

And, thank goodness for me, enough people phone again that certification doesn't cross my mind.

If it did, I would want to change the scenario I have read about in this thread.

Hey,

In Aus certification is not such a big thing. Its is important once you work to a standard (code) but that only needs to be an in house test plate. (i know a special class welder who welds high pressure pipe with nothing more than a trade certificate and company test plates). The effort in Us is mainly because the market is so much bigger and the lawyers are involved more.

Mick

Hi Mick,
Aussie trade qualified welders/boilermakers for the most part are fine welders. I too know of such people working on pipeline/offshore platforms/petro sites etc without certification because they have to retest on every new project they go too. On these jobs they work legally under the control of welding supervisors and inspectors according to site specific WPS.

For those of us pressure welding outside these type of sites we still have to conform to the relevent Australian Standard propriate for the work we do. This means Certification. An uncertified welder should at the very least qualify his own procedure including a weld sample tested by a Nata lab under either to the pressure or structural standard, and have a WPS signed off by a qualified inspector or supervisor. This forms evidence that you are welding to a standard.

Welders operating outside these qualifications that involve public risk such as structural or pressure greater than town water pressure do so with legal liability. They cannot prove they welded to standards and there is no legal defense. Certification is not a big thing to these guys until something gives when they will find that Australia is just as litigous as the USA when it comes to public risk or injury. Thay can easy find themselves broke and in a place where they don't want to drop the soap. It just doesn't make sense to do it.

The big difference with our system and the American system is that qualification in the USA is in the hands of the private sector where money is to be made by continually recertifying people. I'm not knocking the system, I get why they do it - I just saying it the way I see it. In Australia once you have your certification (government controlled licensing) you have it pretty much for life. Any site specific testing is at the cost of the employer. And we still have to prove we are welding to standards.

Of couse, you nailed it. A outside contractor would need to cover his OWN ass. At least its still relatively simple to do so at the moment here. A ticket for the process you use. My question is with a procedure ? Where do you stop? Im sure that they are different to welder quals where a 6g pipe and overhead butt covers you for everything .

I guess it depends on the processes you do. In my own case, my certification is for GTAW. I qualified my own procedure under the supervision and advice of a registered welding inspector. The procedure test coupon was 2x 6G 2" sched 160 butts which qualifies the procedure and WPS to a thickness up to 3/4" from one side without limit to diameter. This then covers me for everthing I do in my trade. The WPS is broad enough that if I have help under my company the welder's own prefered prep angles, amps, wire etc within reason are also covered.
Other processes I use (SMAW & GMAW) are for non-critical stuff like brackets, frames, machine bases etc., so I don't need documentation for this other than the usual hot work and oh&s bs. All good.
If you want to do a bit of everthing then you would need to repeat this for every process (assuming you have certification). It would take ages and cost a bomb. My tig procedure alone cost about $700 for the all the ND and destructive testing the inspector wanted plus the cost of the length of pipe with heat certificates. I also needed the filler quality certificate, I had to measure output current and voltage by instrument and time each run to calculate heat input to satisfy the inspector and for inclusion in the WPS. The committment in time is there as you can see. But you only need to do it once.

When it comes to pipe, my advice is to practice what you know you will take for a job. Again having a 6G on 2" sch 80 does not necessarily cover you on 8" and so on.

Nowadays they have "super coupons" that qualify for all sizes and unlimited thickness. Its usually something like a 2-3/4" OD 7/8" wall thickness.

So a 6g super coupon test qualifies for all pipe size and thickness and positions for that particular process and material.

Coldman, youve got your shit together there. I doubt ill ever need to do a personal procedure but i dont want to trip up. I would never do anything really radical at home, just general shit. Ive dont work on trailers and caravans but dont tell any bastard about that. My work has the procedures to do what they do and the means to get them made if needed. (on the subject of multiple qual procedures, a mate told me about an 8mm single pass vert up t and an 8mm 3 run vert up covers you for about 6 different vert weld thickness . happy times) (unless youre a welding inspector, then you just put yourself out of some exta cash lol)

The only thing that my inspector kept telling me ,when I got my certs is to keep my continuity book in check ! No more than six months apart. Then your certs are forever! Had em for seven years now an two binders of logged welds but never really needed them. Nice to have in your corner if your doin this for life though.