Welding Tips and Tricks

Hi all, just purchased a 200 amp off brand welder (Sungoldpower) which seams to be a decent welder. It doesn't have LED readouts on the voltage, amp or wire speed so I will have to keep track of my settings once I learn how to use this thing. I have done "some" welding in the past but it has been awhile and even at that I never was a certified welder. I work at a insulated piping manufacturer and am looking at welds nearly every day but don't actually know how to do what our welders do . Well anyways I am running .035" wire with 75%/25% mix (20 lph) and getting a bead to lay down is not happening yet, my straight pull welds are pretty high, also the welds a pretty dull/greyish looking. What are you guys thought? Too much wire speed, not enough voltage?

It could be many things. Instead of playing a long drawn out guessing game, you could simply post all the pertinent information and the advice you get will be more comprehensive and accurate from the get-go.

For example, your units of 20 LPH seem off. Welding is an art, but it's rooted in science and numbers are important to some extent.

Look at this MIG "checklist". See how thorough it is? The only thing better would be pictures and videos

Oscar wrote:It could be many things. Instead of playing a long drawn out guessing game, you could simply post all the pertinent information and the advice you get will be more comprehensive and accurate from the get-go.

For example, your units of 20 LPH seem off. Welding is an art, but it's rooted in science and numbers are important to some extent.

Look at this MIG "checklist". See how thorough it is? The only thing better would be pictures and videos

I'll get some picture because your list is not something I would know except what I listed in my first post

Yes I realize some machines do not have all the settings mine have, but the info you do have (and can provide) is very very valuable.

Can you post pictures? How thick is the steel?

Any chance you can list the min/max specs for voltage and wire feed from the manual and then tell us what dial settings you've tried? We might be able to work backwards to get an idea of the ballpark voltage and wire speeds.

G-ManBart wrote:Can you post pictures? How thick is the steel?

Any chance you can list the min/max specs for voltage and wire feed from the manual and then tell us what dial settings you've tried? We might be able to work backwards to get an idea of the ballpark voltage and wire speeds.

yes, I will post some pictures. I have been practicing on 10 gauge (.135") horizontally and vertically T-bar and flat, last night I practiced on some exhaust tubing and was getting it dialed in close until the supper bell rang. The wire I'm using is US Forge ER70S-6 which I read on another forum was a good wire but, it's China made also. Is Lincoln wire worth the extra 10 dollars per 10 lb roll? 40$ verses 30$. The welder is a Sungoldpower https://sungoldpower.com/collections/mi ... elder-200a, I don't see the voltage output in the specs but the adjustment dial goes past the 26 mark printed on the face. The wire speed says 16 meters max per minute which I thought was 629" per minute max, that I can verify in real life with a stop watch and a measuring tape, give my 10 year old grandson a math project. I ended up buying a full 125 cf bottle of argon/Co2 off of craigslist because of the price ($150) which the seller did put a gauge on it and showed 2000#, close enough. The bottle flowmeter is actually scfh not liters like I mentioned above so, I am flowing 20 scfh when I am welding. Who knows if it is really the correct mix in the bottle but for now it will do, there is no splatter. I think I will just have to learn where the settings need to be and write them down and make my own chart, there was no setting chart that came with this machine. I figure once I learn to weld a "decent" bead in all positions I can upgrade to something with more features. BTW the manual is terrible, not worth the paper it was printed on, which I have been conversing back and forth with the distributor about a parts list and customer service but, the companies in China don't care about the individual sale, for the most part.

Here’s a picture, this was vertical

Some more flat welding, weaving back and forth, sorry for the rust

Horizontal

Welds are not horrible, you just need practice. Keep the stickout short, about 3/8" from the contact tip to the work. 1/4" if you can manage it. It really helps flatten out the bead without resorting to excessive voltage. But yea, you just need more practice, which will take time if you do not have anyone to teach you how to actually learn how to MIG weld. One trick I use at times, is holding the MIG gun as best as I can with one hand and adjusting the voltage with the other hand both up and down to find the sweet spot. For wire Feedrate, you need "enough" for the metal thickness you are trying to weld. That's the difficult part if you don't already know just how much feedrate you need in the first place. But it doesn't look like you are far off. Most wire is pretty decent. Heck I've hardly ever used anything but overseas produced wire, and I have no problem making a clean bead. Lincoln/hobart wire will run nice, and might produce less silicon deposits, but most wire is still pretty decent.

Both of these were made with china wire.

That’s how the guys at work weld, nice. Is that going side to side with the torch while pushing or pulling? Dou you think I should be using .030” wire rather than the .035” with this size of a welding machine.

Deano56 wrote:That’s how the guys at work weld, nice. Is that going side to side with the torch while pushing or pulling? Dou you think I should be using .030” wire rather than the .035” with this size of a welding machine.

Using gun manipulation, no. Both of those are straight push, with no weaving, no gun manipulation. Just a crap load of WFS and voltage.

As for the voltage, too little and you will literally feel the wire push the gun back towards you as it starts to stub into the part without enough overall power (amps x volts). Too much and the arc will fan out too much and the wire starts to melt before hitting the part, producing lots of spatter as it starts to transition into globular transfer.

For a "regular" MIGs such as yours, I would keep 030 wire limited to about 160A. If you need to run more than 160A, then 035 is better suited, IMO. You can either put a clamp-on ammeter to actually measure it, or you can can find a crude approximation using the relationships:

For 030 wire:

• If you already know the WFS and want to find amperage:
  • Amperage ≈ WFS_IPM ÷ 2
  If you know the amperage you desire, but want to know the required WFS in IPM:
  • WFS_IPM ≈Amperage × 2

For 035 wire:

• If you already know the WFS and want to find amperage:
  • Amperage ≈ WFS_IPM ÷ 1.6
  If you know the amperage you desire, but want to know the required WFS in IPM:
  • WFS_IPM ≈ Amperage × 1.6

These are linear approximations that start to deviate and no longer stay valid at higher than about 160A for 030 wire, and about 220A for 035 wire. Once you get to a high enough WFS, the wire will not be able to carry more amperage, even if metal is still being deposited at the requested rate. This applies to short-circuit welding; for pulsed MIG the rules of the game are completely different.

You might want to clean some more of that Mill scale off your parts first. Welds do not like dirt.

Doesn’t look like it in the pics but, I did remove milscale at the weld areas

Yes, I do see some swirl marks very close to the weld beads where it was ground down. Sometimes it's just tough to tell with the inevitable smoke and spatter.

I'm back. haha
I have been playing around with the welder some today seeing how to mark the voltage on the dial, it has 11 volts on one side of the dial and 26 on the high end, and nothing in the middle except some markings. I decided to check what this thing actually puts out, 26-27 volts is all she would do at full throttle, I don't if its normal but the voltage is not steady, fluctuating 2-3 volts up and down, maybe doesn't mean anything other than a cheap Chinese welder. On another note I had mentioned that my welds don't lay down very flat no matter what I do and that the look dull grey in color, well I was watching weld.com on youtube and the one seasoned gentleman was playing with 100% argon which he said he didn't like and, his welds were looking exactly what mine look like. I'm wondering if my great deal on a full bottle might not have any Co2 in it. Not a huge deal because I still have a 125 cf tank and am practicing with it.

It could very well be. You won't know until you exchange it for one that does have CO2. Can you post pictures of any and all labels on your current gas tank?

So you linked your welder, which is dual voltage and supposedly capable of 200A, but you never mentioned if you were running it on 120V or 240V. This is very important information to disclose/know.

Oscar wrote:It could very well be. You won't know until you exchange it for one that does have CO2. Can you post pictures of any and all labels on your current gas tank?

So you linked your welder, which is dual voltage and supposedly capable of 200A, but you never mentioned if you were running it on 120V or 240V. This is very important information to disclose/know.

I think the pics where when I was running on 120, now its on 240 volts, not much difference with the look on higher voltage, does have a lot more heat, there's no labeling on the bottle. I'm going to borrow a clamp on amp meter tomorrow from work and check what amperage this really puts out, maybe it's really 200

120V is always a problem when MIG welding, regardless of the welder. There just isn't enough juice on 120V. So that's part of the problem right there.

5K for a pro pulse 300? wow

Deano56 wrote:5K for a pro pulse 300? wow

If you need the functionality of a machine of that grade, the payback is pretty quick. In your situation (hobbyist, wanting to learn to weld yourself?) the machine you have is ample.

My strongest recommendation is to switch to 0.024 wire. You wont push the machine so hard, you’ll slow down the deposition of the weld bead giving you more time to read the puddle and get the proper heat into the part. Short of doing structural work, I’ve never not run it. Sure, it may take a wee bit longer to weld with, but the outcome is often a better, hotter weld with deeper penetration. And it’s a damn sight easier to learn with.

Deano56 wrote:5K for a pro pulse 300? wow

Oh, it's worth every dang penny too! It was on sale though, for Black Friday. $4,300 IIRC. It punches above it's weight class though.

I'm sure they are quality machines. Since I have interest now in welding I see there are other workhorse machines than Miller and Lincoln. Where i work is all Miller and has been for 40 years. We weld sched 10 up to 160 pipe and the biggest I've see roll through there is 36" once. Thanks gentleman for tips

Deano56 wrote:I'm sure they are quality machines. Since I have interest now in welding I see there are other workhorse machines than Miller and Lincoln. Where i work is all Miller and has been for 40 years. We weld sched 10 up to 160 pipe and the biggest I've see roll through there is 36" once. Thanks gentleman for tips

It is not as likely to find HTP machines in industrial settings mostly due to repair facilities and breadth of their machines. Not that they can't, or don't have the ability, just that they are considered "boutique" machines for smaller shops or advanced hobby welders. When production requires run-time, it will be a Miller or Lincoln, not many deviations from that.

Resale value of Miller is highest, Lincoln is behind that. HTTP is a great machine and a very good value. If you want a really great MIG box, look at Fronius. I've used their machines and dang, they are really something. Walk the shipyards in EUR and you'll see their boxes everywhere (like Miller here in the States).

Buy once, cry once.

Fronius is expensive for a 210 amp welder at 2K. Must be a long lasting machine. I guess that's what it takes to buy quality