Welding Tips and Tricks

I'm relatively new to the forum and I'm in the market for Mig/Tig welder.

At my friends auto shop I did a lot stick welding with an Everlast PowerArc 200ST.
Built myself a squat rack out of 11 gauge 3" x 3" steel square tubing for the stands and 1/4 steel plate for the feet. Just one of many minor things I've made using his welding equipment.

Did some Mig welding building a couple reef tank stands with 2" x "2 steel square tubing.

At some point I want to get into Tig welding. Some of the welds he did with his tig welder were amazing. He builds custom intake and exhaust manifolds for customer every now and then with his Tig machine. Nice and clean welds! Almost like artwork. Amazing.

Anyhow, he's moving his shop about an hour North from where I live. No more free easy access to welding equipment for me.

The Mig he uses is an older LINCOLN MIG WELDER 250. Maybe it's a relatively new model but looks old to me.
The Tig he uses is an Lincoln precision 185.

Anyhow, my point is that I want to purchase a Mig/Tig welder, but I cannot afford any of his machines new except maybe the stick welder. I don't want stick welder. Maybe there's a combo welder at the lower-end that will make sense for me.

I'll be working out of my garage. No 220VAC wired up in my garage yet. So a 120VAC machine will have to do for a short time.

I came here for your recommendations on a new machine. I'm not against getting a used machine! Just looking for a solid recommendation for a new Mig/Tig welder right now.

I prefer to spend $1K, but not against $2K if backed up by some sound logic. It's just confusing with all information out there. That's why I came here.

Thanks.

the simple problem with a lot of the cheaper multi process machines (mig/tig) is the tig side usually sucks.
not many around that have tig with all the good functions and they tend to be expensive.
i think everlast make a good one.

but otherwise its easier to buy two separate machines.
then you can leave each one setup on its own gas, own leads etc.

For a hobby welder, a multiprocess machine with TIG will be all you need. Lincoln makes the 210MVP, Miller has the 215 MultiMatic, Esab has a box. Any TIG machine will also Stick, as will many MIG boxes. Sure, Stick isn’t a high end fabrication process, but don’t overlook its value and usefulness.

120V + wanting to weld aluminum + $1k budget + mig/tig requirement = you're dreaming. Wake up bud, time to go to work, you're gonna be late!

But really, just get a dedicated AC/DC tig (200A +) if you want to TIG aluminum. Then get a dedicated MIG.

The $1500 to $2500 range gets you into good machines that are ac/dc tig and stick capable. Quality machines that will have good support, standard accessories, and features you will use as your skill will grow. Go this rout if your focus is more about looks, finished quality, versatility, reliability, flexibility.

Consider Mig machines if your looking for easy, ( also easy to make a good looking bad weld), speed, or production.
Mig is much more limited in is locational, positional, or ambient conditions uses.

Where as a tig/ stick machine will give you flexibility to match your weld to the demands of the day. Remember they stick weld underwater, they tig most food and medical grade stuff, and Mig gets goobered on most beginners projects for several years before they get enough experience to be decent.

Oscar also makes the point that there just isn’t any manufacturer that offers a machine that offers ac/dc tig, stick, and Mig. Until you get into the $ 8,0000 plus range. Even then they will require lots of experience to get value out of them.

I ended up with 2 machines. (ThermalArc 186) One does ac/dc tig and stick, requires 220 single phase, and a second dc/tig stick, and Mig. (Lincoln 210mp) That’s capable of 110v operation. I very rarely use it on 110, because of it’s limited capacity at that voltage. $3000 to $4000 for a set, roughly.

I dunno about $8000 though. The closest is a Multimatic 220 AC/DC for about $3k. Still a far cry from an already stretched budget of $2k, and a hell of a weeping from the overly optimistic budget of $1k.

tweake wrote:the simple problem with a lot of the cheaper multi process machines (mig/tig) is the tig side usually sucks.
not many around that have tig with all the good functions and they tend to be expensive.
i think everlast make a good one.

but otherwise its easier to buy two separate machines.
then you can leave each one setup on its own gas, own leads etc.

That's make perfect sense. I'm not against two dedicated machines.

Oscar wrote:120V + wanting to weld aluminum + $1k budget + mig/tig requirement = you're dreaming. Wake up bud, time to go to work, you're gonna be late!

But really, just get a dedicated AC/DC tig (200A +) if you want to TIG aluminum. Then get a dedicated MIG.

I didn't mention anywhere about welding Aluminum. Don't intend to. Don't foresee it. My friend owns the shop.
I just played around in it.

Poland308 wrote:The $1500 to $2500 range gets you into good machines that are ac/dc tig and stick capable. Quality machines that will have good support, standard accessories, and features you will use as your skill will grow. Go this rout if your focus is more about looks, finished quality, versatility, reliability, flexibility.

Consider Mig machines if your looking for easy, ( also easy to make a good looking bad weld), speed, or production.
Mig is much more limited in is locational, positional, or ambient conditions uses.

Where as a tig/ stick machine will give you flexibility to match your weld to the demands of the day. Remember they stick weld underwater, they tig most food and medical grade stuff, and Mig gets goobered on most beginners projects for several years before they get enough experience to be decent.

Oscar also makes the point that there just isn’t any manufacturer that offers a machine that offers ac/dc tig, stick, and Mig. Until you get into the $ 8,0000 plus range. Even then they will require lots of experience to get value out of them.

I ended up with 2 machines. (ThermalArc 186) One does ac/dc tig and stick, requires 220 single phase, and a second dc/tig stick, and Mig. (Lincoln 210mp) That’s capable of 110v operation. I very rarely use it on 110, because of it’s limited capacity at that voltage. $3000 to $4000 for a set, roughly.

I currently work for a large Mega corporation and burn-out is on the horizon. Creating stereo
stands (A500 square tubing) and selling them is something that's real for me in my next life and welding is something I've always enjoyed doing.
I just don't do it very often. Tig can produce nice finished welds with minimal post-work. Tig welds can be nice looking and presentable. So, when I buy a machine it has to be something with Tig in mind. That's if a good multi-process machine exists out there. A dedicated Tig welder and a dedicated Mig welder makes sense. Just need a good solid machine to begin with. Two solid machines to begin with if required.

Really space is a consideration as well. I don't need something sucking up more floor
space if I can help it. That's why I initially optioned for a multi-process machine.

Anyhow, $1-2K is a budget range I threw out there. If in the end I spend more or less and end up with
a good solid machine or machines. Then so be it. I'm here to learn. Just don't want to look back and
say I bought the wrong machine. Using this forum as a tool to guide me in the right direction.

Looking for good solid reputable brands to begin with...

Thanks!

Roncruiser,

Since you didn't explicitly state you only wanted a DC MIG/TIG welder I did assume you wanted to do aluminum because you mentioned your friend's work. So that was an incorrect assumption on my part.

In that case, with only needing DC, that opens up a lot of possibilities. The main limitations are MIG/TIG welders usually have limited TIG functions as most are designed as DC MIG welders, with an "added on" TIG functionality. If you want things like adjustable pre/post flow/ High frequency start/pulsing, then once again options are again limited under $2,000. Lots of MIG's will TIG, but what you get is basic functionality most of the time. Meaning scratch/lift-start, no shielding gas solenoid/control, no pulse, no up/downslopes. So it all just depends how many features you want, that I think will ultimately determine which direction you will end up going.

So do you want a full-featured TIG "inside" of a MIG welder? Or are you leaning more towards separate welders instead?

roncruiser wrote:Just looking for a solid recommendation for a new Mig/Tig welder right now.

Are you looking more at:

• hobbyist-level brands
• medium-duty/fab-level brands
• professional/heavy-duty-level brands

?

We're really good at spending others' money, so we can easily spend any and all of yours if you let us

You can get all the machine you need, covering all 3 processes on DC and do very well without the catalogue of “advanced features”.

Too many believe that unless you buy a machine with “this, that and these” features you can’t properly weld. BS. They might not be able to, but millions of miles of structural welds have been done on a Tombstone welder.

Stick to your budget. Get one of the boxes I mentioned, and get to developing your skills and enjoying your hobby.

cj737 wrote:You can get all the machine you need, covering all 3 processes on DC and do very well without the catalogue of “advanced features”.

Too many believe that unless you buy a machine with “this, that and these” features you can’t properly weld. BS. They might not be able to, but millions of miles of structural welds have been done on a Tombstone welder.

depends on what you call advanced features.
sure plenty of steel is welded with scratch start rigs.

the multi i have has lift start, which will often stick or blow the tip of the tungsten off. right nitemare to use. its manual torch which means you usually waste a bit of gas (my gas is 4x the price of yours).
really nice to have an on/off button which can be used as amp control if you have adjustable off ramp.
pedal is really handy.
i find pulse really handy for welding thin material. my old tig is just a simple fixed pulse, high or low.
i wouldn't call them advanced features.
not like my new tig with adjustable everything and advanced features like mix tig which you might use now and then.

Oscar wrote:Roncruiser,

Since you didn't explicitly state you only wanted a DC MIG/TIG welder I did assume you wanted to do aluminum because you mentioned your friend's work. So that was an incorrect assumption on my part.

In that case, with only needing DC, that opens up a lot of possibilities. The main limitations are MIG/TIG welders usually have limited TIG functions as most are designed as DC MIG welders, with an "added on" TIG functionality. If you want things like adjustable pre/post flow/ High frequency start/pulsing, then once again options are again limited under $2,000. Lots of MIG's will TIG, but what you get is basic functionality most of the time. Meaning scratch/lift-start, no shielding gas solenoid/control, no pulse, no up/downslopes. So it all just depends how many features you want, that I think will ultimately determine which direction you will end up going.

So do you want a full-featured TIG "inside" of a MIG welder? Or are you leaning more towards separate welders instead?

roncruiser wrote:Just looking for a solid recommendation for a new Mig/Tig welder right now.

Are you looking more at:

• hobbyist-level brands
• medium-duty/fab-level brands
• professional/heavy-duty-level brands

?

We're really good at spending others' money, so we can easily spend any and all of yours if you let us

Hey Oscar,

I'm still learning the technical aspects and lingo of welding. Until a few weeks ago, I did not know AC Tig was mainly for Aluminium

I don't know which way to lean. Separates or "All-in-One".
Let me ask the question this way... can I get solid-featured separate MIG and TIG welders for around ~$1K a piece? They don't have to be super full-featured, but dialing in a weld is part of the fun technical aspect of welding.

• hobbyist-level brands (I'm thinking high-end Hobbyist level) or
• medium-duty/fab-level brands (Medium-duty)
• professional/heavy-duty-level brands

*High-End Hobbyist to Low-End Medium-duty. That's my first stab at a level of choice.

Oscar wrote:We're really good at spending others' money, so we can easily spend any and all of yours if you let us

Believe it or not, that's why I'm here. You guys helping me spend my cash! I need to make some wise choices moving forward with no regrets.

cj737 wrote:You can get all the machine you need, covering all 3 processes on DC and do very well without the catalogue of “advanced features”.

Too many believe that unless you buy a machine with “this, that and these” features you can’t properly weld. BS. They might not be able to, but millions of miles of structural welds have been done on a Tombstone welder.

Stick to your budget. Get one of the boxes I mentioned, and get to developing your skills and enjoying your hobby.

I here you. Still digesting information.

https://store.cyberweld.com/mima161stlt ... gIzBPD_BwE
This is a good machine that’s 110 capable or 220. Doesn’t Mig but it will dc tig and stick like a beast.

roncruiser wrote:Let me ask the question this way... can I get solid-featured separate MIG and TIG welders for around ~$1K a piece? They don't have to be super full-featured, but dialing in a weld is part of the fun technical aspect of welding.

Yea I'd say so. The Primeweld is a popular choice under $1k for an AC/DC TIG. You could have a water-cooled setup for around $1300 give or take. Then for a MIG there's plenty around the $1k mark. Lower-end Millers/Esabs/Lincolns/HTP's. About another $1300 give or take.

i would give the millers and lincolns a miss simply due to price.
plenty of low-middle of the road brands that will do the same for less.
if you end up going full time and doing production welding them look at upgrading then.

As Oscar said, within your budget an AC/DC or high frequency start multiprocess machine is simply out of your range if you go red, blue or yellow. There are certain Everlast machines in the 1k-2k range with high frequency start TIG but without AC, however their customer service has earned a bad reputation around here.

Personally I do run lift arc TIG with a manual valved torch albeit at least on a on a machine with a tig switch and option for a foot pedal though I'm not using one, I still enjoy it and often don't mind the lack of features most times, and because of the machine I run on, I can weld indefinitely at higher amperage than that Precision Tig 185 will even max out at. But I really wouldn't suggest it for anyone wanting to learn to TIG or take advantage of the full benefits being able to TIG weld offers, You'll tear up your tungsten fast, struggle to control the heat and waste more gas.

On the MIG side, given your price range, you could afford a reasonably high output machine capable of spray transfer and heavier diameter wire like a Hobart Ironman 230 or the new 240, which would give you both the ability to weld most thinner steel, but also have enough capability you likely won't ever find it lacking on plate. Unlike some others I am a big proponent of MIG for functional reasons, it's the best way for someone with less skill to stick metal together reasonably well within a decent time frame, though learning how to actually set the machine is a must.


It's hard for any of us to really give you a proper suggestion because we honestly don't know what you'll mostly be doing with it or your preferences, skill level etc. If you're MIG welding 99% of the time, you'll end up regretting paying more for less MIG capability, and the same would apply if you end up wanting to TIG weld 99% of the time. Rather than buying 1 multiprocess machine you could also buy a Hobart 210MVP and Primeweld 225x you would have both MIG and a fully featured TIG machine all while staying under 2k.

However if you're set on a multi process machine, the Lincoln 210MP is without a doubt the go to machine in your price range.

sbaker56 wrote:It's hard for any of us to really give you a proper suggestion because we honestly don't know what you'll mostly be doing with it or your preferences, skill level etc.

I agree 100%. I went back to the initial post. Even though roncruiser stated some of his prior experiences, there were not any explicit requirements (other than 120V operation) which is what makes suggestions a bit difficult.

sbaker56 wrote:If you're MIG welding 99% of the time, you'll end up regretting paying more for less MIG capability, and the same would apply if you end up wanting to TIG weld 99% of the time. Rather than buying 1 multiprocess machine you could also buy a Hobart 210MVP and Primeweld 225x you would have both MIG and a fully featured TIG machine all while staying under 2k.

However if you're set on a multi process machine, the Lincoln 210MP is without a doubt the go to machine in your price range.

Oh I wouldn't say that. For about $100 more to acquire a step-up converter, the new HTP MTS 210 would compete directly with the Lincoln 210MP. 200A in MIG,lift-arc TIG, and Stick welding, can accept 12" 44lb spools of steel wire (16-20lbs for aluminum wire), and doesn't need a spoolgun to weld aluminum (the MIG specific gun is extra though). I'd say it's a winner for just a teensy weensy bit more. The 210MP has the advantage that it is dual-voltage from the get-go. The HTP would need the step-up converter to be able to use it on a 120V outlet. Also the accessories for the HTP 210 are far far less expensive than the lincoln counterparts.

These are the programs that are left over since it doesn't have the pulse features of the other HTP MIGs


I'm not saying this is what roncruiser needs; I'm just pointing out that there are options for a good multi-process machine.

aaaannnnnd cue the conspiracy theorists.....

Oscar wrote:Oh I wouldn't say that. For about $100 more to acquire a step-up converter, the new HTP MTS 210 would compete directly with the Lincoln 210MP. 200A in MIG,lift-arc TIG, and Stick welding, can accept 12" 44lb spools of steel wire (16-20lbs for aluminum wire), and doesn't need a spoolgun to weld aluminum (the MIG specific gun is extra though). I'd say it's a winner for just a teensy weensy bit more. The 210MP has the advantage that it is dual-voltage from the get-go. The HTP would need the step-up converter to be able to use it on a 120V outlet. Also the accessories for the HTP 210 are far far less expensive than the lincoln counterparts.

These are the programs that are left over since it doesn't have the pulse features of the other HTP MIGs


I'm not saying this is what roncruiser needs; I'm just pointing out that there are options for a good multi-process machine.

aaaannnnnd cue the conspiracy theorists.....

That completely slipped my mind, I refreshed myself on its specs, does the aluminum compatible 26 gun work just as well with standard steel wires? I would assume so, but I couldn't find much info on the gun itself.

roncruiser, cheaper aluminum compatibility aside, the ability of being able to run 12" spools is a HUGE deal depending on your potential uses of it , apart from the cost savings, very often certain types of wires you may or may not have a need or simply a desire to run will only come on 12" spools and are not available as 10 pound spools. That has been a source of frustration for myself. The Lincoln machine does have a much wider track record and possibly resell value, but HTP machines have a reputation of exceptional quality from everyone who has owned one.

sbaker56 wrote: That completely slipped my mind, I refreshed myself on its specs, does the aluminum compatible 26 gun work just as well with standard steel wires? I would assume so, but I couldn't find much info on the gun itself.
.

Not really. Technically yes it's possible, but for starters the contact tip is recessed too much IMO (about 3/16-1/4"), so it would make short circuit steel MIG a bit weird. Also it is only 8ft long; they do that to minimize wire feeding issues with soft aluminum wire.

sbaker56 wrote:As Oscar said, within your budget an AC/DC or high frequency start multiprocess machine is simply out of your range if you go red, blue or yellow. There are certain Everlast machines in the 1k-2k range with high frequency start TIG but without AC, however their customer service has earned a bad reputation around here.

Personally I do run lift arc TIG with a manual valved torch albeit at least on a on a machine with a tig switch and option for a foot pedal though I'm not using one, I still enjoy it and often don't mind the lack of features most times, and because of the machine I run on, I can weld indefinitely at higher amperage than that Precision Tig 185 will even max out at. But I really wouldn't suggest it for anyone wanting to learn to TIG or take advantage of the full benefits being able to TIG weld offers, You'll tear up your tungsten fast, struggle to control the heat and waste more gas.

On the MIG side, given your price range, you could afford a reasonably high output machine capable of spray transfer and heavier diameter wire like a Hobart Ironman 230 or the new 240, which would give you both the ability to weld most thinner steel, but also have enough capability you likely won't ever find it lacking on plate. Unlike some others I am a big proponent of MIG for functional reasons, it's the best way for someone with less skill to stick metal together reasonably well within a decent time frame, though learning how to actually set the machine is a must.


It's hard for any of us to really give you a proper suggestion because we honestly don't know what you'll mostly be doing with it or your preferences, skill level etc. If you're MIG welding 99% of the time, you'll end up regretting paying more for less MIG capability, and the same would apply if you end up wanting to TIG weld 99% of the time. Rather than buying 1 multiprocess machine you could also buy a Hobart 210MVP and Primeweld 225x you would have both MIG and a fully featured TIG machine all while staying under 2k.

However if you're set on a multi process machine, the Lincoln 210MP is without a doubt the go to machine in your price range.

Now, I'm leaning towards a dedicated DC TIG machine and buying my buddies cheap MIG machine. That could change the whole ballgame for me.

Oscar wrote:

sbaker56 wrote:It's hard for any of us to really give you a proper suggestion because we honestly don't know what you'll mostly be doing with it or your preferences, skill level etc.

I agree 100%. I went back to the initial post. Even though roncruiser stated some of his prior experiences, there were not any explicit requirements (other than 120V operation) which is what makes suggestions a bit difficult.

sbaker56 wrote:If you're MIG welding 99% of the time, you'll end up regretting paying more for less MIG capability, and the same would apply if you end up wanting to TIG weld 99% of the time. Rather than buying 1 multiprocess machine you could also buy a Hobart 210MVP and Primeweld 225x you would have both MIG and a fully featured TIG machine all while staying under 2k.

However if you're set on a multi process machine, the Lincoln 210MP is without a doubt the go to machine in your price range.

Oh I wouldn't say that. For about $100 more to acquire a step-up converter, the new HTP MTS 210 would compete directly with the Lincoln 210MP. 200A in MIG,lift-arc TIG, and Stick welding, can accept 12" 44lb spools of steel wire (16-20lbs for aluminum wire), and doesn't need a spoolgun to weld aluminum (the MIG specific gun is extra though). I'd say it's a winner for just a teensy weensy bit more. The 210MP has the advantage that it is dual-voltage from the get-go. The HTP would need the step-up converter to be able to use it on a 120V outlet. Also the accessories for the HTP 210 are far far less expensive than the lincoln counterparts.

These are the programs that are left over since it doesn't have the pulse features of the other HTP MIGs


I'm not saying this is what roncruiser needs; I'm just pointing out that there are options for a good multi-process machine.

aaaannnnnd cue the conspiracy theorists.....

I'll be getting 240VAC wired in the garage in a couple weeks. Still would like the 110VAC/220VAC option. That changes my thought process and opens up things a bit for a dedicated welder. I still don't see myself doing any Aluminum. A DC only TIG sounds right for me.

My skill level is a mixed bag. I am in no way a vastly experienced welder, but I am an effective welder albeit green in many ways. Mostly green with setup and dialing a weld in. My friend did that for me. I paid some attention to dialing in the settings but I just wanted to weld and build things. Now, I wish I had paid more attention. My experience is mostly with MIG and Stick.

I want to wade into the deep end of TIG. I can get help from my friend if needed for any setup. TIG sounds scary in terms of setup but I've watched him do it and he's willing to help me.

I've been reading up on TIG machines... Is High Frequency start worth the extra price mark-up in price?

Yes high frequency is worth it. As a beginner it will help with your arc starts. Not necessary but definitely valuable.

Poland308 wrote:Yes high frequency is worth it. As a beginner it will help with your arc starts. Not necessary but definitely valuable.

Thanks! My next question for HF start... can it really interfere with any electronics or electrical signals running through the house when in use? Bluetooth signals, WiFi router?

roncruiser wrote:Thanks! My next question for HF start... can it really interfere with any electronics or electrical signals running through the house when in use? Bluetooth signals, WiFi router?

HF is not an issue with bluetooth or wifi, it's when working on automobiles with computers, but if you want to use it you can unplug the computer control unit.

roncruiser wrote:I'll be getting 240VAC wired in the garage in a couple weeks. Still would like the 110VAC/220VAC option. That changes my thought process and opens up things a bit for a dedicated welder.

This is the step-up converter that I had mentioned. It will allow you to use a 240V welder (albeit with limited welding amperage capability) when all you have is a 120V/20A circuit. Can be had on ebay for about $130-$150 for the 5000W (oversized) version. There's smaller ones like 3000W that would also do just fine since a 120V/20A circuit can only put out 2400W continuously (a bit more for a limited amount of time before the breaker pops).



Just in case it spurs other thoughts/possibilities for you when you're considering 240V-only welders.

Okay. I'm not going the multi-process routeI'm going dedicated DC Tig. My friends loaning me his Mig. He usually Tigs.

Help me choose or add to my list of choices:

Miller Maxstar 161 STL TIG Welder (recommended by Poland308)

Maxstar® STR 210 120-480 V (sell stuff)

ESAB 201i (HF Start)

Customer service is equally important as the machine itself.
I need someone knowledgeable to pick up the phone when I call with questions.

Out of the options given I would choose the Esab 201i for sure if I didn't mind maxing out my budget, The Lincoln was around $1800 but maxes at only 160 amps yet comes with no accessories not even a torch. The Maxstar 161 is a lift arc tig machine designed more for field work where someone might for example be running a root pass with tig and fill and cap with stick. The Everlast Isn't a bad option honestly, I dislike the way they've handled some customer service related issues, but for the price the machines generally have a good reputation.

However let me introduce the Primeweld TIG225X, comes with a CK17 torch, a foot pedal, AC/DC capability, HF start and pulse features for $800. And has a VERY good reputation among those who own them. It would be my personal pick for a sub 1k TIG machine.

https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x ... tig-welder

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