[boodog]

Hi All,
I started welding with gas shield (rather than just flux core) a short time ago. The local gas guy has been selling me Stargon (Argon, Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen) to weld with. Doing a google on Stargon I read it is a brand name for this mix of gas and is indeed used for MIG. It confused me because I thought the object was to keep oxygen away from the weld (but I might have that wrong). It costs me about 50 bucks for a 80 cu ft returnable bottle. My questions - Is this more expensive than a Argon/Carbon Dioxide mix? Does anyone have any experiences using Staron, good or bad? Any noticeable performance difference between Stargon and a Argon/Carbon Dioxide mix? Would the Oxygen make a hotter burn?
Thanks

[jpence38]

First off, I would check to see what the wire manufacturer reccommends for gas shielding for that particular wire. What brand and type of wire are you using? Some outershield wires are designed for only 100% CO2, some for an argon/CO2 mix. I have never heard of a mix with O2 in it for an outershield wire.

[boodog]

Thanks for the reply Jim. At the moment I am using .025" Lincoln Electric SuperArc L-56. The label says 75/25% Ar/CO2, or CO2. I did a little more reading on Stargon using google. One article said the Stargon mix is 90/8/2% Ar/CO2/O2. It went on to say less CO2 meant less penetration and less cooling (making the torch heat up more). Other articles suggest tri-mix gases are not necessary from a performance standpoint and don't justify the expense. I took another look at the Stargon data sheet, it mentions ER70S-3 and ER70S-6 wire standards in the performance characteristic section. I haven't found a particular wire that specifies the Stargon mix in a spec sheet. The closest I have come is a ER70S-3 wire spec sheet that said 98/2% Ar/O2. Thanks for the pointer.

[boodog]

...interesting, I just noticed the SuperArc L-56 I am using indicates it meets the ER70S-6 spec (which the Stargon data sheet used in the performance characteristics).

[jpence38]

Sorry about that Boodog,
I mistakenly thought you were talking about switching to a gas-shielded flux-core wire not a solid wire. What is it that you are welding on? Something thin or small I would assume by using an .025 wire. Depending on which type of transfer you want to use (short cicuit or spray) will dictate which type of shielding gas to use. Also as you said, it will affect the mechanical properties of the weld. But in all reality as you mentioned, there really is no significant benefit to using the tri-mix gas. Using 100% CO2 or an Argon/CO2 mix exceeds even MIL-specs for the wire. In my opinion, I could not justify using the tri-mix unless it was specifically called for.

[boodog]

Jim,
Yes I am using solid wire (unless I run out of gas on a holiday like I did on this past Easter, then I load up a spool of flux core I have laying around and clean up the splatter mess afterward ). I am welding sculptures using a variety of old used metal that range from old wheelbarrows to crusty pipes i find to car parts I replace. Occasionally I will buy new metal if I can't find what I want otherwise. The majority of it is thin-ish. I am using short circuit.

I am going to see if the gas distributer I have been using (which is just a couple miles up the road) can give me a 75/25% Ar/CO2 mix instead of the Stargon. I hope so, otherwise I am driving a 60 mile round trip to the gas supplier.

Thanks again for the help.

-Vince (aka boodog)

[jpence38]

I should think that they will. That is one of the most common gas mixes out there. Glad I could help. Whenever you get a chance, post some pics of your work.

[frankintn]

I DID HANDRAILS OF MOST TYPES IN SPOKANE USING STARGON. I'M NOW IN TENNESSEE AND FIND THAT THE ARGON/CO2 JUST DOES NOT ALLOW AS SMOOTH A FLOW--SAME WELDER. frank's fabrication

[Otto Nobedder]

boodog,

The use of O2 in the mix is for increased heat with thicker sections, which does not apply in the least to your usage.

A tri-mix for .025 wire? For art (thin sections)? I think you're being ripped off. You'll get better mileage out of a can of spatter-spray.

There are very few applications that require a tri-mix, much less one with O2.

Steve S.