Welding Tips and Tricks

so i have a Hobart 130 Mig welder that i use for odd stuff or just messing around.. and i am wondering would running smaller 024 wire vs 030 wire along with C02 vs C25 help it both penitrate better and also weld better as far as less problems with stubbing due to a lack of umph behind it..

Yes and yes.

Yeah smaller wire will help you if you pop breakers and CO2 is pretty much solid penetration so...

Farmwelding wrote:Yeah smaller wire will help you if you pop breakers and CO2 is pretty much solid penetration so...

Curious, to what specifically do you attribute less breaker popping?

ryanjames170 wrote:so i have a Hobart 130 Mig welder that i use for odd stuff or just messing around.. and i am wondering would running smaller 024 wire vs 030 wire along with C02 vs C25 help it both penitrate better and also weld better as far as less problems with stubbing due to a lack of umph behind it..

Smaller wire = higher current density which may increase penetration - at least for how I understand the behavior.

If WFS is adjusted so that .024" and .030" wire are running at the same amperage, the higher current density could yield more penetration.

Stubbing into the weld is often due to a less than ideal ground and/or too fast WFS for the set voltage.

MinnesotaDave wrote:

Farmwelding wrote:Yeah smaller wire will help you if you pop breakers and CO2 is pretty much solid penetration so...

Curious, to what specifically do you attribute less breaker popping?

I don't remember specifically which video, but I am almost 100% certain Jody had mentioned it in one of his 110v mig welder videos when he was doing some repair or something. He said that using smaller wire reduces the amount of breakers popping. Seeing my lack of knowledge of electrical circuits, in gonna go with something about amperage drawn? Like I said I'm oretty sure about that...

Farmwelding wrote:

MinnesotaDave wrote:

Farmwelding wrote:Yeah smaller wire will help you if you pop breakers and CO2 is pretty much solid penetration so...

Curious, to what specifically do you attribute less breaker popping?

I don't remember specifically which video, but I am almost 100% certain Jody had mentioned it in one of his 110v mig welder videos when he was doing some repair or something. He said that using smaller wire reduces the amount of breakers popping. Seeing my lack of knowledge of electrical circuits, in gonna go with something about amperage drawn? Like I said I'm oretty sure about that...

If the WFS is adjusted for the same amperage output for both wires
-and if it takes the same voltage setting to make them run correctly
-and (amps)(volts) = watts
...then where is the reduced amperage draw?

But of course I'm no expert, I still ponder and ask questions.

I went and watched a couple of the videos I thought he mentioned it in but couldn't find it... So I may have been tired one night and misheard it. Dave has a logical argument so I'd go with what he said. Sorry about that. Again always happy to be proven wrong. Gotta learn from your mistakes

MinnesotaDave wrote: If WFS is adjusted so that .024" and .030" wire are running at the same amperage, the higher current density could yield more penetration.

Stubbing into the weld is often due to a less than ideal ground and/or too fast WFS for the set voltage.

You are correct, IF the WFS is equal. Using 0.024 wire should allow lower voltage to yield the same penetration proportionally as 0.030 wire (all things being equal). In theory, that would reduce the amperage draw. But I would not make these changes to accommodate a electrical current draw issue. Fix the breaker, because ultimately you will overdraw the circuit.

Not that this aspect was part of the OP's question....

It sounds to me (stubbing, lack of penetration, etc....) are all aspects of the same problem: insufficient machine for the application. You're wanting to swap gas to get more penetration. You're running a high WFS to get more voltage. You're too slow with your travel speed to force more burn in and instead bumping the wire. All point to poor setup vs application. Sometimes, you just can't weld whats in front of you with a 110v machine.

If the machine doesn't have enough qehonas to put down .030 wire. Then it might have enough to put down .025 wire at a slower speed.

cj737 wrote:

MinnesotaDave wrote: If WFS is adjusted so that .024" and .030" wire are running at the same amperage, the higher current density could yield more penetration.

Stubbing into the weld is often due to a less than ideal ground and/or too fast WFS for the set voltage.

You are correct, IF the WFS is equal. Using 0.024 wire should allow lower voltage to yield the same penetration proportionally as 0.030 wire (all things being equal). In theory, that would reduce the amperage draw. But I would not make these changes to accommodate a electrical current draw issue. Fix the breaker, because ultimately you will overdraw the circuit.

If the WFS is equal, the .024" wire will be putting out less amperage than the .030" wire.

To output the same amperage, the WFS for .024" wire must be increased.

Then you have same amperage with different current densities and the smaller diameter wire should give deeper penetration.

Lincoln probably says it better than I do, so I looked up a quote from them:
Electrode Diameter: when welding with two different diameters of the same electrode and at the same current level, generally more penetration is achieved with the smaller diameter electrode than with the larger diameter electrode (see Figure 5). If you look at an end slice of each size wire, the smaller diameter has less cross sectional area than the larger diameter. As the same amount of current flows through each electrode, the concentration or density of current is greater in the smaller diameter electrode than in the larger diameter electrode. As a result of this higher current density, the smaller diameter electrode will have greater weld penetration than the larger diameter electrode. Note however that every electrode diameter has a maximum current density before the welding arc becomes very unstable and erratic. So as current reaches a certain level, it will become necessary to increase the electrode diameter.