[SuperNewb68]

Just so I get this right which type of mig welding doesn't use a gas? Also which would be the best to start with of the 2 mig types for a total newb to welding?

[Mike]

68, welcome to the forum.

[homeboy]

The mig welding process uses various types of gas depending on the application. Flux core is a self contained process with the flux contained within the wire itself. It depends on what kind of wire welder you have and what you want to do with it to determine what fits .Many wire welders will operate in either mode by changing the wire and polarity. There are lots of knowledgable people on this forum that can help out with some more info on your plans. If you search Mig vs. flux-core welding that may also give you some ideas. Good luck.

[Artie F. Emm]

Welcome to the forum! Homeboy pretty much nailed it, but i'll add a detail or two.

Broadly speaking there are two types of wire-feed welding, determined by the type of wire you use. Solid wire welding, often called MIG, uses shielding gas (such as argon-co2 in various mixtures, or just plain co2) to protect the weld from contamination during the fusion process.

The other broad category of wire welding is flux core, in which the wire is actually a tube filled with flux. That flux replaces shielding gas to protect the weld from contamination during the fusion process. It is similar to stick welding in that regard.

So, what's the deal? Are you thinking about buying a welder, got a welding project in mind, trying to figure something out? A little context goes a long way!

[SuperNewb68]

Welcome to the forum! Homeboy pretty much nailed it, but i'll add a detail or two.

Broadly speaking there are two types of wire-feed welding, determined by the type of wire you use. Solid wire welding, often called MIG, uses shielding gas (such as argon-co2 in various mixtures, or just plain co2) to protect the weld from contamination during the fusion process.

The other broad category of wire welding is flux core, in which the wire is actually a tube filled with flux. That flux replaces shielding gas to protect the weld from contamination during the fusion process. It is similar to stick welding in that regard.

So, what's the deal? Are you thinking about buying a welder, got a welding project in mind, trying to figure something out? A little context goes a long way!

Yes I do have plans on buying a mig type welder for some angle and square/rectangle tube welding projects for making some machine tools to help in bladesmithing and woodworking projects that I want to do. The main problem I have at the moment is fundage, that is the why for the question and then after the tools are made I would be using it to help in making damascus steel for the bladesmithing some times

[WeldItUp]

Just so I get this right which type of mig welding doesn't use a gas? Also which would be the best to start with of the 2 mig types for a total newb to welding?

Welcome! I'm very new here too, but I will add that one consideration for gas vs no gas is where you will be welding. Solid wire welding with gas requires very, very little if any air movement in the immediate environment, like in your garage, shop etc. Welding with flux core can be done outside and with a breeze as it has a much greater tolerance to the environment, very similar to using a stick welder. Welding with gas and solid wire also produces less spatter and cleaner, nicer looking welds overall (says me the very new guy who's learning every day from these guys right here!)


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[Artie F. Emm]

...some angle and square/rectangle tube welding projects for making some machine tools to help in bladesmithing and woodworking projects...

By any chance, are you thinking of a belt grinder?

Part 2 of your original post was "which is best for a newbie". Since $$$ are a concern, flux core is likely the low cost entry point, since you don't need to acquire shielding gas (which includes buying or renting the cylinder). Thinking strategically, tho, as someone mentioned earlier some machines will do both solid wire and flux core. You might consider a machine that does both, in case you want to have that ability later.

[homeboy]

WeldItUp --Good point about mig being a problem without a controled environment. Another point is with Flux Core and the right wire ,settings and practice you can easily weld all positions,mig not so much. Flux core also has greater penetration so the same welder on Flux Core can weld much thicker material than on mig while the mig being a "softer "arc is more suitable for thinner materials. Both types have advantages and disadvantages which need to be addressed to decide which way best suits your needs. I use Flux Core only and as for the spatter with practice,proper settings and just a mist of the right anti-spatter spray you can produce structuraly sound welds that look almost as good as Mig and virtually spatter free.

[WeldItUp]

WeldItUp --Good point about mig being a problem without a controled environment. Another point is with Flux Core and the right wire ,settings and practice you can easily weld all positions,mig not so much. Flux core also has greater penetration so the same welder on Flux Core can weld much thicker material than on mig while the mig being a "softer "arc is more suitable for thinner materials. Both types have advantages and disadvantages which need to be addressed to decide which way best suits your needs. I use Flux Core only and as for the spatter with practice,proper settings and just a mist of the right anti-spatter spray you can produce structuraly sound welds that look almost as good as Mig and virtually spatter free.

All very good points too! When you use the anti-spatter spray are you applying that around the nozzle and on the work piece prior to welding? I have not messed with that yet, just been cleaning up the little bit of mess after. Thanks


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[PeteM]

Aside from the previous considerations, which are great, I would add that with either mig or self shielded flux core- use something, a fan or what ever, to draw the smoke away (not blow, draw). The fumes can have a cumulative effect and are not good.

Just a rule of thumb- if you can strike a lighter and hold a flame, your shield gas/flux coverage should be fine.

[SuperNewb68]

...some angle and square/rectangle tube welding projects for making some machine tools to help in bladesmithing and woodworking projects...

By any chance, are you thinking of a belt grinder?

Part 2 of your original post was "which is best for a newbie". Since $$$ are a concern, flux core is likely the low cost entry point, since you don't need to acquire shielding gas (which includes buying or renting the cylinder). Thinking strategically, tho, as someone mentioned earlier some machines will do both solid wire and flux core. You might consider a machine that does both, in case you want to have that ability later.

Yes a 2x72 belt sander as well as a couple of others like a bandsaw and the like.

[homeboy]

WeldItUp - Thanks. I use the spray on every weld and on the tip also and it works. I have watched videos of people using spray and they usually pour on a puddle! All you need is a mist to dampen the immediate area and virtually no BB's. A quick hit with a wire wheel in a high speed drill and clean. I just built a landscape trailer and had less spatter than I would have had with just a few welds without it. I have tried different brands but the best I have found is Power Weld brand handled by TSC in Canada where I am. It's made in the USA but may be marketed under another name as someone on another post tried to find it with no luck. It's paint compatable, very little residue if used properly. I just do a quick once over with a wire wheel,blow off,tack cloth if it's fussy,prime and paint with no problems. Getting a bit long winded but I hope it helps.

[Otto Nobedder]

I have to agree with Dave. While flux-cure is definitely the less expensive entry point, choosing a machine that can do either is an excellent idea, as it gives you the opportunity to be more versatile in the future.

Another great advantage of a gas-capable machine is that it usually has the circuitry to keep the welding tip de-energized when not welding. Many entry-level flux-core only machines have live voltage at the tip all the time.

If you have a budget figure in mind, we can make some suggestions. I'm not even averse to Harbor Freight stuff, except for their absolute entry-level cheap-o stuff. I'll even make one exception to that, as I made a repair for my brother-in-law using his 70 amp Harbor Freight stick welder. I had to use 1/16 rod to pull it off, mind you, but it worked.

Steve

[WeldItUp]

WeldItUp - Thanks. I use the spray on every weld and on the tip also and it works. I have watched videos of people using spray and they usually pour on a puddle! All you need is a mist to dampen the immediate area and virtually no BB's. A quick hit with a wire wheel in a high speed drill and clean. I just built a landscape trailer and had less spatter than I would have had with just a few welds without it. I have tried different brands but the best I have found is Power Weld brand handled by TSC in Canada where I am. It's made in the USA but may be marketed under another name as someone on another post tried to find it with no luck. It's paint compatable, very little residue if used properly. I just do a quick once over with a wire wheel,blow off,tack cloth if it's fussy,prime and paint with no problems. Getting a bit long winded but I hope it helps.

Homeboy Thanks for the info and description! I will let you know how it goes once I get time to tackle my next project


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[homeboy]

I look forward to hearing how you make out. Couple more tips I found thru experience. Get a thin spray-shake the can and it should sound almost like water. I got one thicker type and it must be just for tips because it was way too messy. Get one of those can triggers that clips to the can which makes it MUCH easier to handle with gloves on. A small round magnetic parts tray works well when on a larger project to hold the can from falling. It may seem a bit of a pain until your used to it but it's more than made up by much easier and faster cleanup and neater welds. Another plus - I almost never have to grind clean my welding tables because of the bit of overspray.

[weldin mike 27]

Sorry if this confuses you even more...but there is also gas shielded flux core. They do not create a shield for themselves and require gas, usually 75%argon25%c02 to protect from atmosphere . These are wires like lincoln e712c and e71m The c stands for carbon dioxide and the m stands for mixed gas. Their flux core is used to scavenge impurities, form a slag to protect and shape the molten metal and add elements to the weld. Short answer is not all flux core is self shielded. Do not assume so, you will be in for a shock.