Flux core gives off some of the most toxic and carcinogenic chemical fumes known to man that hasn't been weaponized. It was developed by those interested in productivity gains without regard for the operator. In my own opinion it should be banned from use.
of course you can back that up, right?
Hey Angus,
I'll bite, I guess this is my straining post.
Attached are three extracts: an msds extract for a Lincoln dual shield wire, "Chemwatch" extract for an Australian dual shield wire and an extract from Skilltech Australia (Apply Safe Welding Practices MEM05052A" course notes. None of this should be new to anyone, so I don't know why I'm being asked.
Apart from the course notes, all these msds are freely available on line. I cannot put the whole documents on line in this post due to size limitations, apologies for that.
You can note from the Chemwatch extract that the GHS Classification for acute toxicity (inhalation) is category 4 (extreme) and carcinogen category 2 (moderate). It goes on to say a host of precautions like forced ventilation, contaminated clothing not to be removed from workplace and washed separately, no eating or drinking in the vicinity etc.
Don't get me wrong, the actual welding process is great for high deposition rate, penetration etc, everything we like to see in welding. But if it is designed for high deposition rate, does this not mean it is meant for industrial applications where ideally adequate ventilation is inbuilt, suitable ppe is supplied and operators + management are trained in safe work practices.
When I was doing my training at Tafe college, prospective students were discouraged from employment using fluxcore because of the high health risk. These students had segregated booths at the other end of the shop and all of them were required to used forced ventilation headgear on top of the shop ducted ventilation.
So here is the rub - if its meant for industry where safety can be controlled, how come the ordinary Joe Blow can go to his LWS or online shop and buy the stuff, and take it home to his garage and experiment with it while all his doors and windows are closed because its freaking cold outside and then complain that he can't breath and feels weird?
And I believe the gaseless innershield is even more toxic and you can buy that stuff at any corner hardware in little fishing reel size spools for cheap $400 mig power sources. How many of those people read the safety fine print prior to burning wire?
Anyway that's my rant for the day.
Time to go bash some cans of Tooheys down my neck.
I'll bite, I guess this is my straining post.
Attached are three extracts: an msds extract for a Lincoln dual shield wire, "Chemwatch" extract for an Australian dual shield wire and an extract from Skilltech Australia (Apply Safe Welding Practices MEM05052A" course notes. None of this should be new to anyone, so I don't know why I'm being asked.
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You can note from the Chemwatch extract that the GHS Classification for acute toxicity (inhalation) is category 4 (extreme) and carcinogen category 2 (moderate). It goes on to say a host of precautions like forced ventilation, contaminated clothing not to be removed from workplace and washed separately, no eating or drinking in the vicinity etc.
Don't get me wrong, the actual welding process is great for high deposition rate, penetration etc, everything we like to see in welding. But if it is designed for high deposition rate, does this not mean it is meant for industrial applications where ideally adequate ventilation is inbuilt, suitable ppe is supplied and operators + management are trained in safe work practices.
When I was doing my training at Tafe college, prospective students were discouraged from employment using fluxcore because of the high health risk. These students had segregated booths at the other end of the shop and all of them were required to used forced ventilation headgear on top of the shop ducted ventilation.
So here is the rub - if its meant for industry where safety can be controlled, how come the ordinary Joe Blow can go to his LWS or online shop and buy the stuff, and take it home to his garage and experiment with it while all his doors and windows are closed because its freaking cold outside and then complain that he can't breath and feels weird?
And I believe the gaseless innershield is even more toxic and you can buy that stuff at any corner hardware in little fishing reel size spools for cheap $400 mig power sources. How many of those people read the safety fine print prior to burning wire?
Anyway that's my rant for the day.
Time to go bash some cans of Tooheys down my neck.
Flat out like a lizard drinkin'
By the way stick welding gives off heaps of fumes as well. But if you read the msds for them, say 6010, it basically says if overcome by fumes drag the bloke outside, slap 'im round abit and send 'im back in to work.
Wouldn't you rather work with this process?
Wouldn't you rather work with this process?
Flat out like a lizard drinkin'
- Otto Nobedder
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Our "air samples" came back, and I had to sign off on mine yesterday.
Seems my daily average hex-chrome exposure is less than 1% of the OSHA action limit. That appears to be the across-the-board result for everyone in our shop on a typical day.
I'm rooting for going to "voluntary" on our respirators, so one more headache is out of my way.
Steve S
Seems my daily average hex-chrome exposure is less than 1% of the OSHA action limit. That appears to be the across-the-board result for everyone in our shop on a typical day.
I'm rooting for going to "voluntary" on our respirators, so one more headache is out of my way.
Steve S
- weldin mike 27
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Do those tests look for other things besides hex? General welding fumes are not great for you. Our health and safety manager has kittens over isocyanate in paint but neglects to mention any other of the nasty crap in there.
- Otto Nobedder
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Yes, Mick,
General welding fumes, including Zinc, Cadmium, other valences of chrome, etc. were covered.
We are a repair shop, so we aren't seven hours under the hood in an eight hour day.
General dust and debris were included as well.
Steve S
General welding fumes, including Zinc, Cadmium, other valences of chrome, etc. were covered.
We are a repair shop, so we aren't seven hours under the hood in an eight hour day.
General dust and debris were included as well.
Steve S
- weldin mike 27
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@Angus. We can sit here and surmise what causes cancer and what doesn't all day. But all I need to know is that breathing welding fumes for any length of time makes my throat sore so I always reaching for the respirator or in my case adflo. End of story IMHO.
- weldin mike 27
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Ps I don't smoke either.
@Angus,
It's true they only send young men into battle because the old guys won't go. Having said that I don't consider myself an old fart either but I do wonder why lawyers and unions aren't having a field day with inner and outer shield processes.
Apart from that it would remiss of me to ignore what I have been advised by my tutors, power source manufacturers, wire manufacturers and the GHS and not passing this information to those that say they can't breathe from sweet smelling fumes. You are looking at suspected carcinogens but ignoring confirmed acute toxicity.
If there is suspicion, should there not also be precaution until confirmation? After all we are not going into battle are we. We are going to work to pay our way and expect to come home to our loved ones after our shift, tired, but in good health.
It's true they only send young men into battle because the old guys won't go. Having said that I don't consider myself an old fart either but I do wonder why lawyers and unions aren't having a field day with inner and outer shield processes.
Apart from that it would remiss of me to ignore what I have been advised by my tutors, power source manufacturers, wire manufacturers and the GHS and not passing this information to those that say they can't breathe from sweet smelling fumes. You are looking at suspected carcinogens but ignoring confirmed acute toxicity.
If there is suspicion, should there not also be precaution until confirmation? After all we are not going into battle are we. We are going to work to pay our way and expect to come home to our loved ones after our shift, tired, but in good health.
Flat out like a lizard drinkin'