[BugHunter]

Yup. It should be a simple case of the vendor saying "let me do an instant refund/credit, and charge a brand new welder for $0 out of pocket cost. Here is your return label to have the old welder sent back to us at our cost, and we will ship out the new unit no later than the very next business day."

HTP Pro Pulse xxx is looking better all the time.

[Oscar]

I sent an email notice to the vendor alerting them to the situation and I contacted my cc company and alerted them. I'd just like somebody to say; hey, the customer didn't cause this, we need to make it right for him. Instead it's; hey you bought it, it's yours now.

I learned a long time ago, you can learn all you need to know about a company, by the way they handle things when stuff goes sideways. We'll see how this goes?

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

I've always been a Miller fan, still trying to be, for reasons expressed in other threads.

My disappointment comes from spending what I believe to be a substantial amount of $$ on a product that wasn't really essential for me to have, then anticipating how much fun it would be to use, only to have the big failure. Then when I reach out to the vendor, I am told, gee sorry, but (paraphrasing here) we can't do anything for you, except refer you to Miller.

So I call Miller and get the service department, where a real nice guy tried 3 different times over about 1 hr worth of telephone time to help me find a fix. Resetting the machine x 3, reloading software updates x 3, double and triple checking machine setup mode, repeating the whole process x3 between each phone call to Miller, just so I wouldn't find out it was all me causing the problem.

I asked the vendor about a replacement, they said no, Miller won't do that. They would not say that they would not do that, but dodged around the question each time telling me how bad they felt for me.

Miller service said they wouldn't replace it when asked straight out and said my only option was to take it to a Miller certified service center. They referred me to two, I was familiar with both. I called and talked to both about lead time. One said 7-10 days before they would even be able to look at it. The other (my LWS) said 2-3 days before they could start on it.

I took it to the second one (my LWS) and their guy was saying, hey we'll just send it back. Then he asked if I bought it from them? I had to explain that I had tried, but in fact bought it online. No problem he says with a smile, let me call my Miller guy, he'll let us send it back.

His Miller guy said no, that they had recently changed their policy and where they would have done that before, they would not do it now. The machine was mine and would be repaired under their warranty. He also indicated that he suspected that he knew exactly what the problem was, a known frailty in a 4 pin connection to a control board, that gets easily broken during manufacture assembly.

Look, I'm a big boy and I've been around the block a time or two. I know people buy cars and trucks that have to go in for warranty service the first week they have them. It happens. Sometimes stuff just goes wrong.

But then the opportunity presents itself for everyone except the customer to show how committed they are to "customer service". As we all know, that's how reputations are made and lost.

My LWS, where I did not buy this welder, stepped up right away and tried to help. That said a lot. The Miller service guy tried hard to help and that said a lot. The people who made all the money from my purchase, both from manufacturing to sales, not so much.

I know I'll end up with an impressive welding machine when the dust settles, but my feelings about both companies isn't going to be forgotten and when asked, I'll be glad to relate my personal experiences factually.

It's just frustrating that a company apparently knows about a flaw in their process and then lets this saga go on like this. If there's an issue, then fix it. And if a customer, through no fault of their own is inconvenienced or isn't satisfied, then fix that. But making the customer have to fix problems that weren't caused by him is BS. Neither company has even offered to recognize that fact. So yes, I'm NOT happy.

I'm not trying to trash anyone, I'm just extremely disappointed.

You're more understanding than I am, that's for sure. If I were you, I'd have already done a charge-back to my credit card and would be waiting for a pre-paid shipping label in my email Inbox, had my $3,000 hard earned dollars were toyed around like that, don't matter what item or brand or whatever the thing was. I worked 3 part-time jobs to put myself through college, worked hard during my early years as a teacher, sacrificing my evenings and even weekends to put my very best foot forward, which landed me a higher position which is now my career. So I see every dollar that I earn twenty-years-in-the-making. Ain't no one gonna play around with those $$/years!

[Oscar]

Yup. It should be a simple case of the vendor saying "let me do an instant refund/credit, and charge a brand new welder for $0 out of pocket cost. Here is your return label to have the old welder sent back to us at our cost, and we will ship out the new unit no later than the very next business day."

HTP Pro Pulse xxx is looking better all the time.

Perhaps the HTP isn't the best fit for everyone (obviously) but the customer service story would have been a lot different.

True story. Back in December an acquaintance in my HTP welder group chat bought a PP300 to the tune of roughly $5,000 by the time you add in the specific accessories you need ( I don't recall exactly what he added, but usually one adds the MIG gun of their choice and perhaps a work clamp and/or flowmeter and other drive rolls). Unpacked it a few days later, only to find out it just wasn't working right. He called HTP, they did what they could over the phone over the course of a few days I believe. They couldn't find the culprit for the malfunction. Jeff Noland @ HTP had the unit picked up truck freight, on his dime, and sent the customer a brand new unit. Case closed, customer is happy with a brand new unit that is working properly, as he rightfully deserves.

I asked Jeff what had happened, turned out one connector appeared to be seated, but wasn't. When HTP troubleshot it, they unplugged/plugged it back in the electronics picked it up and voila machine worked just fine! Darnedest thing, but hey you never know what can happen! I love the fact that they have my back like that which is why they earn my repeated business.

[BugHunter]

I'm with you Oscar. Loaning Fortune 500 companies thousands of $ interest free ain't high on my list.

Back in 88, I bought my first new car. An 89 Pontiac Formula w/T roofs, pretty well loaded. Day two, Saturday morning, I go to start the car and it's dead. I mean not even a click, not so much as a light lights up. Called the dealer, they sent a rollback immediately with a new loaner car for the meantime, and hauled my car out of the garage. Next morning, (Sunday); phone rings. Your car is done. There was a fuse link in the under dash harness that blew after the wiring rubbed on a sharp edge under the dash. We added a strip to keep it from happening again, and you should be fine now. You can stop in at your convenience and pick the car up.

Now, there's an example of how it's supposed to go. 4 years and 80K miles later I sold the car without adding anything but gas, oil and tires. (maybe some washer fluid ) I didn't get all irate, I get it, these things happen. (They shouldn't but it is what it is). Now, it would have been a different story if I had to take the car somewhere myself, and then get told "Ehh, well, maybe we can get on it, maybe not. Thanks for the check though! "

[FootSoldier]

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

Louie,
They didn't say they won't repair it, it's a BRAND NEW machine and they're telling the guy he has to wait a week or two in order to use his already-waited-on-brand-new-machine.

This isn't a car with a title and paperwork that already went to the state. This is a welder. Even if it were a car, he'd be today driving ANOTHER brand new car, while they mess around to fix his, not taking the bus.

Yup. It should be a simple case of the vendor saying "let me do an instant refund/credit, and charge a brand new welder for $0 out of pocket cost. Here is your return label to have the old welder sent back to us at our cost, and we will ship out the new unit no later than the very next business day."

****STOP THE PRESSES!!!!***

So after stewing about this for the last two days, I called the repair facility and told them not to start any work on the welder.

Then I called Miller and asked for the Unhappy Customer Dept. They sent me to a real nice young guy who listened to the whole story and told me that he didn't understand why I had run into so much push-back, unless it was because the supply of these particular machines is so short. Way backordered. He told me that their normal policy was that if a new welder was DOA for the customer, Miller would just do a direct replacement.

In my case, he said he would need approval to do so, but thought that wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that I might have to wait up to 3-4 months to get one. They are apparently way behind. He put me on hold and went to his boss, who immediately approved a replacement. Then he suggested that I contact my vendor, who he was very familiar with, and told me to give them another call and ask them to do a replacement out of their stock, which Miller would then replace to them at a latter date. He also told me to refer them to him for questions.


So, I called the vendor and got to a different person than I had reached the first time. This time I reached someone who was interested in helping. He contacted the Miller guy and then got his boss to approve the whole deal. He then sent me a prepaid shipping label and told me that they would ship me a new replacement welder as soon as they received confirmation that I had shipped the damaged one their way.


I picked it up from the repair facility, packed it up and dropped it at the UPS store this afternoon. My new one should be here by the end of next week.

Now I am happy. Both Miller and the vendor stepped up, once I got to the right people. Lesson; don't just accept what someone tells you when you're right and know it. Push the issue up the ladder until someone listens and gets the message. I finally did that and got to good people who wanted to do the right thing.

[Coldman]

Ain't it the truth? There's a-h's in every organization. very glad to hear you've sorted it, I was starting to have bad thoughts about miller. Faith restored.

[FootSoldier]

Ain't it the truth? There's a-h's in every organization. very glad to hear you've sorted it, I was starting to have bad thoughts about miller. Faith restored.

Mine too! I'm still true blue!

[FootSoldier]

Well, you've moved past the realm of my meager knowledge so other than scratch my head and give the computer a dumb look I'm out of options. I wish you good luck in fixing it.

About the only general advice I might offer is that companies hate publicly aired bad press and filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau tends to get a quick and positive reaction as that process is a publicly visible one.

You've dropped a large chunk of change into a product and have a reasonable expectation of a very timely resolution. Waiting weeks is not at all reasonable.

Miller is based in Allpleton, WI so whatever branch of the BBB that covers that area would be the place to file the complaint.

So, are/were you in the infantry or do you just like to fight with feet?

Best regards to all,


Lance

No, not infantry. I served in the Air National Guard '71-'76. I started using the online name more as a nod to a way of life or a philosophy.

[Oscar]

that's good that you got it squared away, that's exactly how it should have gone down in the 1st place.

[Spartan]

Dang, I get way less grief from Everlast

Glad you got it sorted.

[LanceR]

No, not infantry. I served in the Air National Guard '71-'76. I started using the online name more as a nod to a way of life or a philosophy.[/quote]

Ahh, thank you for your service. And I'm glad that you got to where you should have gotten a few phone calls into the ordeal. I hope you have far better experiences with the new one.

My one frustration with the Multimatic buying experience was that the machine has the capability of using the MDX-250 Ez-Select gun to change programs from the gun but doesn't ship with it. And there's no way to exchange the base MDX-250 for one so to use the darn machine to it's fullest you need to spend an additional $360 to use the advertised capabilities.

Have a good weekend!

Best regards,

[FootSoldier]

My one frustration with the Multimatic buying experience was that the machine has the capability of using the MDX-250 Ez-Select gun to change programs from the gun but doesn't ship with it. And there's no way to exchange the base MDX-250 for one so to use the darn machine to it's fullest you need to spend an additional $360 to use the advertised capabilities.

Have a good weekend!

Best regards,[/quote]

That's short-sighted thinking for sure. Sometimes there's no making sense of what big corporations do?

Thanks! Have a nice weekend!

[Oscar]

That's short-sighted thinking for sure. Sometimes there's no making sense of what big corporations do?

Thanks! Have a nice weekend!

I wouldn't call that short-sighted. I would call it, "let's put whatever we want in it, and then make the customers buy the real nice stuff extra, with no option of upgrading at the time of purchase". Same thing with the Dynasty SD card for the upgraded capabilities. $500 if you want the full capabilities.

[G-ManBart]

Wow...glad to hear you got in touch with someone reasonable at both Miller and the vendor!

[FootSoldier]

Wow...glad to hear you got in touch with someone reasonable at both Miller and the vendor!

Yup! It renewed my faith in Miller for sure. And I will happily do more business with the vendor as well.

[BugHunter]

Power of the internet.............

Forgive my pessimism but I am not so anxious to let them off the hook. I would almost bet that the only reason this went the way it did was because somebody saw this thread on the internet. Do not think for one minute these companies don't monitor internet forums and social media.

A few years back I bought some new tires for my car from the Tire Rack. I had a rather unpleasant experience. First, there are only four tires made that even fit my car and three of them are from Michelin. I chose to buy the Continental which I had seen good reviews on. I got my tires and they were horrible. Literally a hundred and twenty thousands out of round. I called to say I don't want these tires and they basically told me it sucks to be you , our policy is that you are screwed and you keep whatever we send. Doesn't matter if they're total shit or not.

They gave me the entire spiel about how I was the only guy who had said anything about these wonderful tires. Didn't matter that I had purchased two different sizes of tires for the front and rear and that they were both horrifyingly out of round and out of balance.

So at 400 plus dollars per tire I wasn't willing to lay down for all of this and I went to my car forum and posted video evidence with me running indicators on the tires in my lathe demonstrating not only that they were Miss manufactured but how it had been done and what the original problem was. The thread went viral.

I called the Tire Rack again to tell them that I had called my credit card company and that under no circumstance was I paying for those tires and they are going to take them back and I don't care what their policy is and oh by the way, I posted videos on the internet about these tires you told me are so wonderful and the consensus is you've got a major issue on your hands with Continental. I have also contacted continental and told them about the videos and they've already told me that they're going to make this right no matter what and please take the videos down. I told them to go piss up a rope, I'm not interested in your policies, I just want round tires and if you can't make them I'll get them somewhere else. I'll buy new Wheels so I can get a different size tire but by God I'm not buying your tires.

Incredibly, that same morning I got a call from the Tire Rack saying yes sir you can have any Tire you want, we will replace them no questions asked. Sadly, the only replacements are Michelin tires which I positively despise and cost $4xx and rears over $500 per tire. But at least they are round.

Neither Continental nor Tire Rack was willing to do shit until I posted videos on the internet showing irrefutably the manufacturing issues with their insanely priced Flagship tires.. Wouldn't be surprised if Miller made an exception on your welder due to this thread.

[BillE.Dee]

You're a tuff man ,, Buggy. I had the same happen to me during my recoup period of 10 months. Had to have a special bed for me and it turned out to be bogus components. Called with complaint and got "that's just too bad". I went thru some channels and got a whole new bed with great components. Ended up the chick loosing her job. Don't always need a shot gun to kill the fly.

[Oscar]

Power of the internet.............

It does make one wonder, why people were not on the same page in the first place, from the vendor to the initial Miller contact.....

[G-ManBart]

So someone at Miller with some with some juice sees this thread and figures out a way to alert anyone who might be answering the phone that they need to change their tune about just this one situation...

Uh, yeah....or maybe he just got someone willing to listen to reason and do the right thing.

[BillE.Dee]

So someone at Miller with some with some juice sees this thread and figures out a way to alert anyone who might be answering the phone that they need to change their tune about just this one situation...

Uh, yeah....or maybe he just got someone willing to listen to reason and do the right thing.

Sometimes, the old adage,,, "I know 10 people" has be force fed down some hammerheads throat.... OR .... bad news travels like wild fire, good news travels slow.

[BugHunter]

So someone at Miller with some with some juice sees this thread and figures out a way to alert anyone who might be answering the phone that they need to change their tune about just this one situation...

Uh, yeah....or maybe he just got someone willing to listen to reason and do the right thing.

On large forums, companies have reps right on the sites. You're living in a dream world if you think large companies don't monitor social media, and I mean have full time people who's job it is to do so. Even still, surely you know how easy it is to do an google advanced search for anything in the past 7 days with xyz terms including "Miller Welder" +".forum"....

Hey, believe what you want. Customer service reps have a screen in front of them with your info called up using caller id or can easily find you once you identify yourself and pull up your account. There are notes for them to see... They may have their stupid policies for the general masses, but when you post up evidence on the web showing what a bunch of low grade dirt bags they are being, and they start searching for the URL and see it's hitting multiple sites with links, they go into damage control mode pretty quick. Now, I don't advocate bad-mouthing a company without cause. But unless I missed it, the OP is still out his money and has no welder.

[Louie1961]

On large forums, companies have reps right on the sites. You're living in a dream world if you think large companies don't monitor social media, and I mean have full time people who's job it is to do so

Well you are half right, but your are stuck in the 90s. Nowadays this is done with AI technology and sentiment analysis. There is no company in the world today that has the budget to have people sitting in front of monitors searching for and reading posts from disgruntled people. And if they did ever have people doing this it was done offshore in a country where English was not their first language, so it was never done well.

[cj737]

I want to be fair, but I feel like I'm being hosed. From what I've learned so far, it's a known problem spot in the manufacturing process. Apparently, there is a very fragile wiring connection point on a board that is known to break easily, causing feed wire problems.

My welder was produced in January this year, why the heck haven't they fixed their manufacturing problem? And why does their problem have to be my problem?

Not to diminish your frustrations, but any change to manufacturing process is rather involved. Especially given the global circumstances of COVID and numerous country lockdowns. There is a massive shortage currently on many components embedded in computers/electronic devices that is further increasing repair/re-fabrication times.

I suspect another issue the Repair Facility is having is the lack of availability of replacement parts increasing their lag in servicing repairs. I’ve had my Dynasty repaired a few years back and it was less than a week turnaround. And my Spool Gun had a similar problem to yours. At the time, Miller shot me a new one because the software for run-in was a problem.

Sorry to hear about your issues. Hopefully the time to resolve is faster than an exchange or replacement at this point.

[BugHunter]

On large forums, companies have reps right on the sites. You're living in a dream world if you think large companies don't monitor social media, and I mean have full time people who's job it is to do so

Well you are half right, but your are stuck in the 90s. Nowadays this is done with AI technology and sentiment analysis. There is no company in the world today that has the budget to have people sitting in front of monitors searching for and reading posts from disgruntled people. And if they did ever have people doing this it was done offshore in a country where English was not their first language, so it was never done well.

So you're saying the guy on that car forum who is the rep for Tire Rack (there are more than one) are not paid employees of Tire Rack? The girl at my local car dealership who is the "Social Media Admin" isn't working on that stuff full time?

Whatever guys... I just know this. If this were me, I'd either have a welder that works, or my money.

[cj737]

On large forums, companies have reps right on the sites. You're living in a dream world if you think large companies don't monitor social media, and I mean have full time people who's job it is to do so

Well you are half right, but your are stuck in the 90s. Nowadays this is done with AI technology and sentiment analysis. There is no company in the world today that has the budget to have people sitting in front of monitors searching for and reading posts from disgruntled people. And if they did ever have people doing this it was done offshore in a country where English was not their first language, so it was never done well.

So you're saying the guy on that car forum who is the rep for Tire Rack (there are more than one) are not paid employees of Tire Rack? The girl at my local car dealership who is the "Social Media Admin" isn't working on that stuff full time?

Whatever guys... I just know this. If this were me, I'd either have a welder that works, or my money.

You are correct, Bug, plenty of companies employ people to monitor and post to Social Media. And monitoring forums that are either industry or manufacturer-sponsored (YouTube channels too) is another critical source of vendor feedback. Sure, some companies do use MLA (no such thing as actual AI) to aide in filtering and collating impressions and sentiments. But these are not “bot-driven” algorithms.