[FootSoldier]

Took the leap and bought my brand new MM255 from an online distributor. My LWS had none in stock and had no idea when they could get one. So, I decided to give online a try, nervous about what if there's a problem with the machine?

Welder arrived last evening and I unboxed it and set it up last night. Did the software update and waited to strike the first arc this morning. A big fail!

After 3 calls to Miller service center and working for 3 hrs trying to figure it out, I'm down to take it to the certified Miller repair facility. Where the rep says, sure bring it in and get in line. It will be a week to 10 days before we can even look at it. Then order parts and fix it.

Appears that there's a problem with the wire feed in either the motor or whatever is controlling the motor. I just couldn't get enough IPM of wire under any setting. Squeeze the trigger and wire took off great...for 3 seconds, then the drive motor cut back on speed to about 50% or less.

Not the way I hoped this would go. Miller shrugs their shoulders, the vendors shrugs theirs and now I have to handle the problem. Not happy with either.

My 42 yr old MM35 with zero electronics still runs fine.

[BugHunter]

Wow...

[Oscar]

That does suck.

[BillE.Dee]

That does suck. Did you use your credit card to get the purchase completed?? Perhaps you could go thru them to get the situation rectified. Tell them to stop the payment if you don't get satisfaction, but do it NOW,,, that's what they are there for.

[FootSoldier]

That does suck. Did you use your credit card to get the purchase completed?? Perhaps you could go thru them to get the situation rectified. Tell them to stop the payment if you don't get satisfaction, but do it NOW,,, that's what they are there for.

That's what I have been thinking.

Took it to a certified repair facility this afternoon and they said Miller should just ship a replacement, so they called for me. No go. Miller says they recently changed their policy, fix it.

I want to be fair, but I feel like I'm being hosed. From what I've learned so far, it's a known problem spot in the manufacturing process. Apparently, there is a very fragile wiring connection point on a board that is known to break easily, causing feed wire problems.

My welder was produced in January this year, why the heck haven't they fixed their manufacturing problem? And why does their problem have to be my problem?

[Oscar]

Return it to the online vendor. Then just get an HTP Pro Pulse 300 like you should have. Problem solved.

[Coldman]

The PP300 looks like a very good bit of kit but but requires 51 amps on 240v single phase compared to 31 amps for the mm255. So there's that to consider as well.

[G-ManBart]

Ouch....no other way to say it.

I love the options the new stuff offers, but I love the reliability the old stuff offers just as much.

[FootSoldier]

I sent an email notice to the vendor alerting them to the situation and I contacted my cc company and alerted them. I'd just like somebody to say; hey, the customer didn't cause this, we need to make it right for him. Instead it's; hey you bought it, it's yours now.

I learned a long time ago, you can learn all you need to know about a company, by the way they handle things when stuff goes sideways. We'll see how this goes?

[FootSoldier]

Ouch....no other way to say it.

I love the options the new stuff offers, but I love the reliability the old stuff offers just as much.

I was worried about this very question. Not off to a very good start so far.

[Coldman]

Ouch....no other way to say it.

I love the options the new stuff offers, but I love the reliability the old stuff offers just as much.

+1 for me on that.
Trouble is I'm a sucker for technology.

I have a 250 transformer mig that has been serving me well for 15 years. Don't need anything more than what it does for me now. But if Miller decide to bring in a 250 pulse mig to the backside of the world I reckon I'll be at the front of the que.
Sad ain't it.

[Oscar]

The PP300 looks like a very good bit of kit but but requires 51 amps on 240v single phase compared to 31 amps for the mm255. So there's that to consider as well.

Not sure where you saw that. The Miller manual (one of them) states 41.1A @ 260A/40% duty cycle. By the time you get to 300A output, guess what, it'd be right up there with ~50A. There ain't no way you're getting 300-350A of MIG welding current using only 31A from 240V single-phase power. I1max is near 75A for the MM255. If you happen to be referring to I1eff, that is not what most seem to think it is. I1eff is a calculation for permissible wire gauge size reduction that is based on the duty cycle of the welder. Since the duty cycle at max output is only 10%, the wire size can be sized as if it was "only" 30A constant requirement (approx 10 awg), because even though the machine will most definitely pull more, the duty cycle that limits the machine's on-time also allows the conductor to cool during the same time the welder must be allowed to cool-down, which is what permits the wire size reduction. Same reason most welders use 10/3 or 10/4 cord even though they can easily pull 50A+ from the outlet.

[Coldman]

The PP300 looks like a very good bit of kit but but requires 51 amps on 240v single phase compared to 31 amps for the mm255. So there's that to consider as well.

Not sure where you saw that. The Miller manual (one of them) states 41.1A @ 260A/40% duty cycle. By the time you get to 300A output, guess what, it'd be right up there with ~50A. There ain't no way you're getting 300-350A of MIG welding current using only 31A from 240V single-phase power. I1max is near 75A for the MM255. If you happen to be referring to I1eff, that is not what most seem to think it is. I1eff is a calculation for permissible wire gauge size reduction that is based on the duty cycle of the welder. Since the duty cycle at max output is only 10%, the wire size can be sized as if it was "only" 30A constant requirement (approx 10 awg), because even though the machine will most definitely pull more, the duty cycle that limits the machine's on-time also allows the conductor to cool, which is what permits the wire size reduction. Same reason most welders use 10/3 or 10/4 cord even though they can easily pull 50A+ from the outlet.

Off the miller website.

[Oscar]

The PP300 looks like a very good bit of kit but but requires 51 amps on 240v single phase compared to 31 amps for the mm255. So there's that to consider as well.

Not sure where you saw that. The Miller manual (one of them) states 41.1A @ 260A/40% duty cycle. By the time you get to 300A output, guess what, it'd be right up there with ~50A. There ain't no way you're getting 300-350A of MIG welding current using only 31A from 240V single-phase power. I1max is near 75A for the MM255. If you happen to be referring to I1eff, that is not what most seem to think it is. I1eff is a calculation for permissible wire gauge size reduction that is based on the duty cycle of the welder. Since the duty cycle at max output is only 10%, the wire size can be sized as if it was "only" 30A constant requirement (approx 10 awg), because even though the machine will most definitely pull more, the duty cycle that limits the machine's on-time also allows the conductor to cool, which is what permits the wire size reduction. Same reason most welders use 10/3 or 10/4 cord even though they can easily pull 50A+ from the outlet.

Off the miller website.

And as you can see by my in-depth explanation looking into the manual, Miller states things in a funny way. If I chose to only look at I1eff on my PP300, it too states it only "needs" ~32A. But it's just not the case.

[BugHunter]

I sent an email notice to the vendor alerting them to the situation and I contacted my cc company and alerted them. I'd just like somebody to say; hey, the customer didn't cause this, we need to make it right for him. Instead it's; hey you bought it, it's yours now.

I learned a long time ago, you can learn all you need to know about a company, by the way they handle things when stuff goes sideways. We'll see how this goes?

I never would have expected this from Miller. I also considered a 255 but other rather major purchases have put that on hold. Your experience with this pretty much seals the deal that I will not be buying another Miller welder. If this is what they do on a brand new machine now, they have decided to go the Disposable route and clearly don't give a shit about their customers. And I say this as the happy owner of a Dynasty.

Not replacing a brand-new out-of-the-box machine that does not work is not excusable. Truth of the matter is, shipping a brand new out-of-the-box machine that does not work is inexcusable.

[Oscar]

I agree that a brand new out of the box should be replaced if the end-consumer has had it for 30 days or less, maybe even 60 days or less. Inverters are now supposed to be 'tough as nails' if you buy from the mid-upper-echelon manufacturers, IMO. As far as shipping out a non-working one, it can happen that one makes it past QC and then shows up unexpectedly DOA, and that goes for all products, even the HTP stuff that I independently promote. I've had people PM me saying "hey my brand new HTP [machine name here] isn't working...." kind of message and asking me for help. After doing my best, they had to call HTP and it's turned out a couple times that the machine had to be replaced, and it was. Weird chit can happen anytime anywhere, even for upper-echelon machines it seems. But the common theme here is: how will the vendor/manufacturer handle the situation, especially for a brand-new out-of-the-box machine?

[Louie1961]

I sent an email notice to the vendor alerting them to the situation and I contacted my cc company and alerted them. I'd just like somebody to say; hey, the customer didn't cause this, we need to make it right for him. Instead it's; hey you bought it, it's yours now.

I learned a long time ago, you can learn all you need to know about a company, by the way they handle things when stuff goes sideways. We'll see how this goes?

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

[LanceR]

Hey Foot

I'm not saying that you do or don't have a problem but before everybody jumps on the "let's all bash Miller" wagon please give us some more info.

What wire diameter and is it solid or cored, aluminum or steel wire, what setting on the machine such as Auto-set or manual and if manual what exact settings were you using? What thickness and material type etc and if you're using the auto-Set mode is the machine set correctly? Are there any tight coils in the gun cable?

I have the Mulitmatic 255 and you don't state whether yours is a Millermatic or what but as I understand it the MIG side is the same so....

What is the Run-in set at, how good is your ground and is it close to the weld? The run in as preset for steel in the Auto-Set mode starts the wire in slower than the set IPM until a good arc is established and then ramps it up. If the ground is anything less than on clean bright metal and reasonably close to the weld field I suspect the machine could well be either staying at the run-in speed or alternating back and forth if it sees an erratic ground.

And the machine ships with the feed rolls set for .035" wire. When I first set mine up I installed a 25# roll of .045" ER70S-6 and I had erratic feed issues for a good hour's worth of frustration and creative cursing. So I decided to pull the feed rolls, gun, wire roll etc and set it up from scratch. Imagine my chagrin when I found that I had only flipped one roll to the .045" side and the other was still at .035". As soon as I had them both on the .045" side everything worked well.

My only MIG experience prior to this was with a little 120V Astro Mig welder so I am not claiming and particular expertise here. I will note that it seems that the Multimatic 255 likes the feed roller tension set higher than I'm used to but the old welder used .0230.025" wire, too.

Best regards to all,

[Oscar]

Hey Foot

I'm not saying that you do or don't have a problem but before everybody jumps on the "let's all bash Miller" wagon please give us some more info.

What wire diameter and is it solid or cored, aluminum or steel wire, what setting on the machine such as Auto-set or manual and if manual what exact settings were you using? What thickness and material type etc and if you're using the auto-Set mode is the machine set correctly? Are there any tight coils in the gun cable?

I have the Mulitmatic 255 and you don't state whether yours is a Millermatic or what but as I understand it the MIG side is the same so....

What is the Run-in set at, how good is your ground and is it close to the weld? The run in as preset for steel in the Auto-Set mode starts the wire in slower than the set IPM until a good arc is established and then ramps it up. If the ground is anything less than on clean bright metal and reasonably close to the weld field I suspect the machine could well be either staying at the run-in speed or alternating back and forth if it sees an erratic ground.

And the machine ships with the feed rolls set for .035" wire. When I first set mine up I installed a 25# roll of .045" ER70S-6 and I had erratic feed issues for a good hour's worth of frustration and creative cursing. So I decided to pull the feed rolls, gun, wire roll etc and set it up from scratch. Imagine my chagrin when I found that I had only flipped one roll to the .045" side and the other was still at .035". As soon as I had them both on the .045" side everything worked well.

My only MIG experience prior to this was with a little 120V Astro Mig welder so I am not claiming and particular expertise here. I will note that it seems that the Multimatic 255 likes the feed roller tension set higher than I'm used to but the old welder used .0230.025" wire, too.

Best regards to all,

I agree that even just for basic trouble shooting for GMAW, there are minimum 50 important checks to do at every single point. There's a lot that can go wrong. Just IMO of course.

[FootSoldier]

Hey Foot

Thanks. I tried to answer the questions in bold within your post

I'm not saying that you do or don't have a problem but before everybody jumps on the "let's all bash Miller" wagon please give us some more info.

What wire diameter and is it solid or cored, aluminum or steel wire, what setting on the machine such as Auto-set or manual and if manual what exact settings were you using? solid .35 wireWhat thickness and material type etc 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" mild steel and if you're using the auto-Set mode is the machine set correctly? I tried auto-set first, then manual mode, both. I disabled the run-in Are there any tight coils in the gun cable? No. I removed the contact tip twice and cleaned it just to be sure. No physical constraints to the cable/hose

I have the Mulitmatic 255 and you don't state whether yours is a Millermatic I did early in the thread, it's Millermatic 255 or what but as I understand it the MIG side is the same so....

What is the Run-in set at disabled, how good is your ground and is it close to the weld? attached directly to the work piece, 6" from the arc contact point The run in as preset for steel in the Auto-Set mode starts the wire in slower than the set IPM until a good arc is established and then ramps it up. Mine was acting exactly opposite. Strike arc, 3 seconds later, wire speed reduced to about 50% If the ground is anything less than on clean bright metal on clean bright prepped metal. Have picsand reasonably close to the weld field I suspect the machine could well be either staying at the run-in speed or alternating back and forth if it sees an erratic ground.

And the machine ships with the feed rolls set for .035" wire. checked rollers in setup When I first set mine up I installed a 25# roll of .045" ER70S-6 and I had erratic feed issues for a good hour's worth of frustration and creative cursing. So I decided to pull the feed rolls, gun, wire roll etc and set it up from scratch. Imagine my chagrin when I found that I had only flipped one roll to the .045" side and the other was still at .035". As soon as I had them both on the .045" side everything worked well.

My only MIG experience prior to this was with a little 120V Astro Mig welder so I am not claiming and particular expertise here. I am no pro, but I bought my MM35 in 3/1979 and still run it, I'm familial with MIG I will note that it seems that the Multimatic 255 likes the feed roller tension set higher than I'm used Played with that too. Tried setting it up to about #4 tension just to seeto but the old welder used .0230.025" wire, too.

Best regards to all,

[LanceR]

Well, you've moved past the realm of my meager knowledge so other than scratch my head and give the computer a dumb look I'm out of options. I wish you good luck in fixing it.

About the only general advice I might offer is that companies hate publicly aired bad press and filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau tends to get a quick and positive reaction as that process is a publicly visible one.

You've dropped a large chunk of change into a product and have a reasonable expectation of a very timely resolution. Waiting weeks is not at all reasonable.

Miller is based in Allpleton, WI so whatever branch of the BBB that covers that area would be the place to file the complaint.

So, are/were you in the infantry or do you just like to fight with feet?

Best regards to all,


Lance

[BugHunter]

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

Louie,
They didn't say they won't repair it, it's a BRAND NEW machine and they're telling the guy he has to wait a week or two in order to use his already-waited-on-brand-new-machine.

This isn't a car with a title and paperwork that already went to the state. This is a welder. Even if it were a car, he'd be today driving ANOTHER brand new car, while they mess around to fix his, not taking the bus.

[BugHunter]

Hey Foot

I'm not saying that you do or don't have a problem but before everybody jumps on the "let's all bash Miller" wagon please give us some more info.
...:bunch of irrelevant stuff:...

Even if the Op is just some schlep that knows 0 about welders (not likely after this many years), we're not talking about a new welder consumer with setup issues. We're talking about a Miller authorized service center with machine in hand and can't make it weld. It's broke, and according to the authorized service people, it's a known issue. Maybe I missed some of the thread and I'm off base here (as usual ) but I'm of the opinion Miller needs to step up the the plate and take action.

PS. This isn't a situation of the welder selling for bargain basement prices and not having enough $ for some QC checks. They are knowingly sending units out the door with a glaring issue, unresolved.

[FootSoldier]

I sent an email notice to the vendor alerting them to the situation and I contacted my cc company and alerted them. I'd just like somebody to say; hey, the customer didn't cause this, we need to make it right for him. Instead it's; hey you bought it, it's yours now.

I learned a long time ago, you can learn all you need to know about a company, by the way they handle things when stuff goes sideways. We'll see how this goes?

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

I've always been a Miller fan, still trying to be, for reasons expressed in other threads.

My disappointment comes from spending what I believe to be a substantial amount of $$ on a product that wasn't really essential for me to have, then anticipating how much fun it would be to use, only to have the big failure. Then when I reach out to the vendor, I am told, gee sorry, but (paraphrasing here) we can't do anything for you, except refer you to Miller.

So I call Miller and get the service department, where a real nice guy tried 3 different times over about 1 hr worth of telephone time to help me find a fix. Resetting the machine x 3, reloading software updates x 3, double and triple checking machine setup mode, repeating the whole process x3 between each phone call to Miller, just so I wouldn't find out it was all me causing the problem.

I asked the vendor about a replacement, they said no, Miller won't do that. They would not say that they would not do that, but dodged around the question each time telling me how bad they felt for me.

Miller service said they wouldn't replace it when asked straight out and said my only option was to take it to a Miller certified service center. They referred me to two, I was familiar with both. I called and talked to both about lead time. One said 7-10 days before they would even be able to look at it. The other (my LWS) said 2-3 days before they could start on it.

I took it to the second one (my LWS) and their guy was saying, hey we'll just send it back. Then he asked if I bought it from them? I had to explain that I had tried, but in fact bought it online. No problem he says with a smile, let me call my Miller guy, he'll let us send it back.

His Miller guy said no, that they had recently changed their policy and where they would have done that before, they would not do it now. The machine was mine and would be repaired under their warranty. He also indicated that he suspected that he knew exactly what the problem was, a known frailty in a 4 pin connection to a control board, that gets easily broken during manufacture assembly.

Look, I'm a big boy and I've been around the block a time or two. I know people buy cars and trucks that have to go in for warranty service the first week they have them. It happens. Sometimes stuff just goes wrong.

But then the opportunity presents itself for everyone except the customer to show how committed they are to "customer service". As we all know, that's how reputations are made and lost.

My LWS, where I did not buy this welder, stepped up right away and tried to help. That said a lot. The Miller service guy tried hard to help and that said a lot. The people who made all the money from my purchase, both from manufacturing to sales, not so much.

I know I'll end up with an impressive welding machine when the dust settles, but my feelings about both companies isn't going to be forgotten and when asked, I'll be glad to relate my personal experiences factually.

It's just frustrating that a company apparently knows about a flaw in their process and then lets this saga go on like this. If there's an issue, then fix it. And if a customer, through no fault of their own is inconvenienced or isn't satisfied, then fix that. But making the customer have to fix problems that weren't caused by him is BS. Neither company has even offered to recognize that fact. So yes, I'm NOT happy.

I'm not trying to trash anyone, I'm just extremely disappointed.

[Oscar]

Did Miller actually say they wouldn't repair the unit?

Louie,
They didn't say they won't repair it, it's a BRAND NEW machine and they're telling the guy he has to wait a week or two in order to use his already-waited-on-brand-new-machine.

This isn't a car with a title and paperwork that already went to the state. This is a welder. Even if it were a car, he'd be today driving ANOTHER brand new car, while they mess around to fix his, not taking the bus.

Yup. It should be a simple case of the vendor saying "let me do an instant refund/credit, and charge a brand new welder for $0 out of pocket cost. Here is your return label to have the old welder sent back to us at our cost, and we will ship out the new unit no later than the very next business day."