I'm still kicking around the idea of swapping out my old Mig, or at least adding to it... I'm not sure I want to go as high as the PP300 in spite of it really checking all the boxes I'd ever want checked. I don't have a local dealer who has the MM255 to demo. They'll sell it at online pricing, but it's not something I can see in action before buying. BillEDee was nice enough to bring his PP220 here and after using that thing, I'm pretty sure it would cover all the things I'd ever want/need. I can keep the transformer mig I have since it'll never bring enough money to be worth selling. So IF I was to buy another welder, it would be a straight up purchase, no trade. Being realistic, I'd say there's a 30% chance I'll buy anything at all. Maybe a little better than that if I went to the PP220. I'd be around $3300 for a MM255 with full running gear, a little less than that for an HTP 220.
Does anyone have experience with both and could offer up some opinion on how they match up? Even if you're just familiar with one or the other and have a fair idea what you're missing/have extra from the competing unit. I briefly looked at the Lincoln Power Mig as well but really would prefer an inverter unit. That has a little more horsepower than the 255/220, but it weighs a ton and I'd like to avoid that. Both of these units would allow multiple electric plugs if you wanted to go portable, even running off 110 if I'm not mistaken. I have 3 phase here at work so all power options are available here. Use on 220 1ph and 110V 1ph are both a nice capability.
Both are single-voltage, 230-240V. Neither is 120V capable. The MM255 costs more because it's in larger amperage class. 60% duty cycle @ 230A and 10% duty Cycle at 350A. In that respect, the PP220MTS won't compete. The 220MTS is a 1/4"- 3/8" machine. The MM255 is a 1/2"-5/8" machine. The consumables for the MM255 don't carry over from any other previous line, so you absolutely have to buy genuine Miller ($$$) until the Chinese/overseas suppliers find a way to make cheaper consumables. We can sit and compare specs all day, but so can you, we both know that 
. The real question is: what you do want to weld (all inclusive: thicknesses and materials)? The 220MTS has for more synergic programs AFAIK. I've love to see the complete list of the MM255, but I doubt it is as extensive.
. The real question is: what you do want to weld (all inclusive: thicknesses and materials)? The 220MTS has for more synergic programs AFAIK. I've love to see the complete list of the MM255, but I doubt it is as extensive.I"m pretty certain it is not as exhaustive. I don't think the MM does pulse on pulse, and I'm not entirely sure you can select materials and thicknesses the same way on the MM as you can on the PP.
I seem to recall there's a few guys on the forum here who have the 255. I'd be curious to know if any of them have also tried the HTP. I know the odds are not good. Typically, you buy a machine and use that one, not jump around trying out all sorts of other stuff. Least likely stuff in the same class of machine. I mean, why would you if you already have one.
I seem to recall there's a few guys on the forum here who have the 255. I'd be curious to know if any of them have also tried the HTP. I know the odds are not good. Typically, you buy a machine and use that one, not jump around trying out all sorts of other stuff. Least likely stuff in the same class of machine. I mean, why would you if you already have one.
It will let you select thicknesses since it has Auto-Set mode for the processes it has programmed. Also the 220MTS does not have double-pulse in every synergic program. That is just for the aluminum programs. Now the big momma PP300, that you can activate double-pulse in any of the pulse programs, in either standard (factory preset), or fully customizable the way you would on a TIG pulser.
Looking at the display and controls on the 255 it doesn't seem like there's nearly the bells and whistles on that like the PP220 has. I didn't find a video on the operation of that, though I admit I haven't really looked hard. I need to check out some review vids and see what folks say. The videos on the Miller site are worthless. Basically they just say "yea, we made this thing so that's all you need to know. Buy it!" The video was beyond worthless.
The PP300 is a little more than I want to spend. I'd prefer to have a job for it if I was going to take the plunge. The cost doesn't bother me quite as much as the knowledge that I know I won't use it to it's potential, perhaps ever.
The PP300 is a little more than I want to spend. I'd prefer to have a job for it if I was going to take the plunge. The cost doesn't bother me quite as much as the knowledge that I know I won't use it to it's potential, perhaps ever.
I'm not sure where I got the idea they were capable of running on 110V. I see the 255 is single phase only, 208-240V. But that's it. If you're saying the PP220 is the same, I guess I was way off base on that then.
I know my Dynasty will do anything from 110V 1Ph to 480V 3Ph with just an adapter cord. Not that I use that capability much, but when I've wanted it, it was great.
I know my Dynasty will do anything from 110V 1Ph to 480V 3Ph with just an adapter cord. Not that I use that capability much, but when I've wanted it, it was great.
You don't have to worry about any of that.BugHunter wrote:The PP300 is a little more than I want to spend. I'd prefer to have a job for it if I was going to take the plunge. The cost doesn't bother me quite as much as the knowledge that I know I won't use it to it's potential, perhaps ever.
You think the 220MTS is great when you tried Bill's, if you could only try the PP300. Makes the 220MTS look like a toy. It's not just 100 extra amps. The whole thing is an order of magnitude above the 220MTS. The key is it's much more robust power supply and different pulse programming (that fully exploits the beefier power supply). I can't put it into words, you just have to try it's synergic programs; they are even better than the 220MTS. To put it in perspective at least a little bit, the 220MTS needs a typical 8-10% CO2 for it's steel pulse programs to run properly. The PP300 doesn't care, and lets you get away with 8-25% CO2! You can leave C25 hooked up and just blast away with any of it's steel pulse programs. (it's smoother with C10 than C25 though). I have not used it to it's full potential ever, and likely never will. Do I regret buying it on a school admin salary (which is not that much here in Texas)? Nope. Not even one bit. When I do use it, I'm grinning ear-to-ear underneath my hood after running a bead, usually blurting out things like "F- Yea!".
That reminds me, I've had it for more than 2 years, and I need to do a video on it. HTP did the "video manual" series on the 220MTS, but they don't have one for the PP300! I should beat them to it!
I just got the Lincoln 360 MP and feel the same way about it that Oscar does his 300. I have not welded with an HTP 300 but can say based on what Oscar describes, my 360mp is definitely a similar feeling to weld with: next level. I am doing a lot of gas shielded flux core right now and it is just like using a giant hot glue gun. There is no substitute for time under the hood but I will say that the capabilities of this class of machine are worthwhile. The price of entry is high but the old adage is true, at least relative to getting what you pay for. I will get some serious time with the pulse process later this week. I am positive the machine will exceed my expectations. Aluminum pulse on pulse will follow that.
FYI, both the Lincoln 260 and 360MP are hybrid inverter / transformer machines. You get all the benefits of inverter tech with both machines. Neither machine is what you would call mobile at 267 lbs. they are both single phase only machines but do multiple voltages from 208 on up. If you don’t need portability outside rolling through your shop, they might be worth looking at. The 260 has no pulse or double pulse though.
FYI, both the Lincoln 260 and 360MP are hybrid inverter / transformer machines. You get all the benefits of inverter tech with both machines. Neither machine is what you would call mobile at 267 lbs. they are both single phase only machines but do multiple voltages from 208 on up. If you don’t need portability outside rolling through your shop, they might be worth looking at. The 260 has no pulse or double pulse though.
I hear ya. Regardless of brand, It's basically that one single leap that goes from "mid-level-medium-duty-fabrication-welder" to a true professional-class unit.Chris H wrote:I just got the Lincoln 360 MP and feel the same way about it that Oscar does his 300. I have not welded with an HTP 300 but can say based on what Oscar describes, my 360mp is definitely a similar feeling to weld with: next level. I am doing a lot of gas shielded flux core right now and it is just like using a giant hot glue gun. There is no substitute for time under the hood but I will say that the capabilities of this class of machine are worthwhile. The price of entry is high but the old adage is true, at least relative to getting what you pay for. I will get some serious time with the pulse process later this week. I am positive the machine will exceed my expectations. Aluminum pulse on pulse will follow that.
FYI, both the Lincoln 260 and 360MP are hybrid inverter / transformer machines. You get all the benefits of inverter tech with both machines. Neither machine is what you would call mobile at 267 lbs. they are both single phase only machines but do multiple voltages from 208 on up. If you don’t need portability outside rolling through your shop, they might be worth looking at. The 260 has no pulse or double pulse though.
Chris, the 360 MP is what I looked at at my local welding shop about a week ago but again the price on that also includes that it is a multi-process machine so it's a little bit more money than just a straight Mig. For my application I already have a TIG machine and already have two other migs so I don't really need a multi-process welder. My novice opinion is that the welder is predominantly a MIG machine and will be used as such most of the time. If not all of the time.
Oscar, I'm not doubting one bit that the 300 is an awesome machine. I need my head examined for even thinking about purchasing a MIG welder much less spending up for 1. I have an extremely large purchase coming up in the near future so I can't be too frivolous. Same goes for the 360 MP. They don't give those away either.
Oscar, I'm not doubting one bit that the 300 is an awesome machine. I need my head examined for even thinking about purchasing a MIG welder much less spending up for 1. I have an extremely large purchase coming up in the near future so I can't be too frivolous. Same goes for the 360 MP. They don't give those away either.
Yea, the PP300 is a still a good chunk of change. I was more so just illustrating that it's way more than just +100A compared to the 220MTS. You can always check with HTP later on to see if they have any that were returned for the trade-up deal where someone returns their 220MTS to receive some credit towards a PP300. They usually end up selling the returned units with a hefty discount and with some kind of warranty. You already love the machine anyways. Just have to seal the deal
You make a good point on asking about trade ins, never thought of that. I'm not opposed to a scratch here or there.Oscar wrote:Yea, the PP300 is a still a good chunk of change. I was more so just illustrating that it's way more than just +100A compared to the 220MTS. You can always check with HTP later on to see if they have any that were returned for the trade-up deal where someone returns their 220MTS to receive some credit towards a PP300. They usually end up selling the returned units with a hefty discount and with some kind of warranty. You already love the machine anyways. Just have to seal the deal
I'll never be the guy to say someone is crazy for buying whatever tools they want, whether it's overkill or not. And surely not about your welders where the things you are buying are helping to develop another employable skill, regardless if you ever intended to be employed at it or not. Go to another forum and some guy will have just spent $100k on a car or a bass boat and nobody will think anything of it. In my case, I've got an engineer coming here this am to look at a rather pricey job, and while a welder won't change the greater scheme of things, Bill's machine truly is enough for any project I'd ever expect to do.
I can always make multiple passes on big stuff.
If I call them about trade ins and they have some deal I can't refuse that forces me to spend a bunch of money, I'm gonna come looking for you....
You and Bill can team up in that case, Just take turns driving and you'll be in Texas in no time flatBugHunter wrote:If I call them about trade ins and they have some deal I can't refuse that forces me to spend a bunch of money, I'm gonna come looking for you....
I don't have experience with either machine, but if you can swing it, I'd buy the one you really want even if it's more than what you necessarily need. Long as it's not going to put you in the poor house, I'd go for bigger/more featured then you never say"I wish I bought the better one"
if it was my money, I am spending the extra $600 and getting the higher amperage and duty cycle of the MM255 every time, and most especially if you plan on welding aluminum. The 25% duty cycle @ 200 amps of the ProPulse just wouldn't cut it for me. I like to play with dual shield flux core which normally runs at about 240 amps. Double pulse/pulse-on-pulse adds nothing to the weld integrity, it is strictly aesthetic, and therefore it has no value to me at all. I also really like the idea of the MM255 being tuned/having a welding program to do short circuit MIG with 90/10 gas, thereby offering the possibility of using one gas for both short circuit and pulse spray. I am not sure if the pro pulse has that capability or not.
Multimatic 255
Nick, my spending decisions are generally less about money and more about value, so this one is kinda tricky because in my business, I can't see a mig EVER being used as a money-making tool. Maintenance too? Yes. But this will never be a welding shop where mig jobs come in. So I'm hesitant to overspend.
Louie makes a good point I hadn't considered which is using one gas. I had almost resigned myself to needed another tank if I got a new mig welder. Oscar pointed out the PP300 has enough snot to run spray with C25. Sorta the same benefit. Using pulse for position welding in spray mode would be the primary feature I'd want if you even want to say I have a 'requirement'. I called the local shop here and while they've sold a few 255s and gave me names of two places I could ask, they don't have anything I could demo without asking one of their customers. I'm hesitant to do that, though I might call to ask for some first hand opinions about it. If they were to offer me to try it out, that's different. I'd do it then.
Louie makes a good point I hadn't considered which is using one gas. I had almost resigned myself to needed another tank if I got a new mig welder. Oscar pointed out the PP300 has enough snot to run spray with C25. Sorta the same benefit. Using pulse for position welding in spray mode would be the primary feature I'd want if you even want to say I have a 'requirement'. I called the local shop here and while they've sold a few 255s and gave me names of two places I could ask, they don't have anything I could demo without asking one of their customers. I'm hesitant to do that, though I might call to ask for some first hand opinions about it. If they were to offer me to try it out, that's different. I'd do it then.
In my MIGs, what Stel did was sort of setting in the middle-ground. The short-circuit synergic programs can work with 8-25% CO2/balance Argon. So what I'm guessing they did was take the "mid-point", so to speak, between a curve for 8% CO2 and 25% CO2, to have a decent balance and versatility.
As for the PP300 running pulse-spray on C25, the performance is decent. There is some spatter which is to be expected due to not having an argon-rich mix. Definitely smoother with C10 or C8. From what I remember when I tried it, the pinch there to propel the droplets, but you can visually tell they are larger in diameter (which is what I think causes some minor spatter) compared to when running C10 or C8; with those proper mixes the droplet sizes are considerably smaller, which helps significantly reduce spatter production AFAIK.
As for the PP300 running pulse-spray on C25, the performance is decent. There is some spatter which is to be expected due to not having an argon-rich mix. Definitely smoother with C10 or C8. From what I remember when I tried it, the pinch there to propel the droplets, but you can visually tell they are larger in diameter (which is what I think causes some minor spatter) compared to when running C10 or C8; with those proper mixes the droplet sizes are considerably smaller, which helps significantly reduce spatter production AFAIK.
Funny you should ask. If I do use the MIG, at the moment it's all 100% short-circuit right now. This is only because I still have two tanks of C25 that I need to get rid of, so I can exchange them for pure argon in order to get some extra reserve tanks of Argon to run my pulsed-spray mix.BugHunter wrote:What % of the time would you say you use yours on short circuit vs spray? I ask because I could see me almost never running short circuit again.
So yea once these two tanks are depleted, no reason to short circuit ever again. And if I wanted to I could still use a C10 mix anyways.Sorta what I figured. Once I used Bill's in spray mode with the inductance set properly, I don't see much need to run short circuit again. And in my case, I could send back my C25 tank and get credit for what's in it and exchange for C8/10. Thing is, I also have another welder here and would probably purchase a smaller tank so I had C25 on hand just in case.
Do you mean the pulsed spray program or regular spray transfer (non-pulsed)?BugHunter wrote:Sorta what I figured. Once I used Bill's in spray mode with the inductance set properly, I don't see much need to run short circuit again. And in my case, I could send back my C25 tank and get credit for what's in it and exchange for C8/10. Thing is, I also have another welder here and would probably purchase a smaller tank so I had C25 on hand just in case.
oh ok, yes if you were running the synergic program in the machine it was pulsed-spray. Did you use C10 or C8?BugHunter wrote:Bill did most of the fiddling with knobs and buttons but I'm going to say we were in pulsed spray every time.Oscar wrote:Do you mean the pulsed spray program or regular spray transfer (non-pulsed)?
You can always commission me to make a Frankenmixer for you, that way you can run any Argon-CO₂ mix you want from just 1 argon tank and 1 straight CO₂ tank.
Understandable, I was looking at the 220 it does look like a very nice machine. Mig is quite common in most shops around here, quick production, repair work not as much.BugHunter wrote:Nick, my spending decisions are generally less about money and more about value, so this one is kinda tricky because in my business, I can't see a mig EVER being used as a money-making tool. Maintenance too? Yes. But this will never be a welding shop where mig jobs come in. So I'm hesitant to overspend.
Louie makes a good point I hadn't considered which is using one gas. I had almost resigned myself to needed another tank if I got a new mig welder. Oscar pointed out the PP300 has enough snot to run spray with C25. Sorta the same benefit. Using pulse for position welding in spray mode would be the primary feature I'd want if you even want to say I have a 'requirement'. I called the local shop here and while they've sold a few 255s and gave me names of two places I could ask, they don't have anything I could demo without asking one of their customers. I'm hesitant to do that, though I might call to ask for some first hand opinions about it. If they were to offer me to try it out, that's different. I'd do it then.
Good luck on your decision. If I was needing another mig id seriously be looking at the 220