[LanceL]

Hi everyone, new here. I am a beginner welder and I am reluctant to make this post and show this to everyone but hopefully I can get some help. I'm using a Miller 140 autoset machine with .030 wire and my Airgas guy gave me 90cd/8ox/2cga gas. I am working on automotive stuff. Welding body panels, 1/8th inch frame pieces etc. and he said this gas is better than 75/25 for what I am doing.

So I was practicing with 1/8th inch plate and seemed to be doing fine. I put the welder on the autoset mode with my gas about 20. Here is the pic. Not perfect I know but doing ok. So I am notching the frame on my 72 Nova. The frame metal is 16 gauge and I have the 1/8th inch plate to weld back in for the notch. This is what all the people and shops do for this frame notch procedure. Then look what happened to my welds when I was welding the 16 gauge with the 1/8th inch plate! Yikes. I adjusted the gas also and it went from 20 to 17. Maybe that was the problem? I also have .023 wire (pic attached) for the smaller metal body panels I will be doing. Should I use that smaller wire when combining the two different thickness metals? The 16 gauge and the 1/8th inch metal? I was also welding uphill. Should I have been welding it going down? With this type of material matching should I just stitch weld it and not try a continuous bead like on thicker metal? The metal was clean also where I was welding. What is going wrong with the welds on the frame?? Thank you for any help and criticism. I appreciate it.


Practice with 1/8th inch plate


Wire currently using


.023 wire I have also for the thin metal






Same pics just different lighting.

[Oscar]

90cd/8ox/2cga gas.

You're gonna have to spell that out, as a Google Search using your text resulted in no matches for welding gas.

Your practice beads on 1/8" look ok, just a bit cold/ropey. They main issue is you (likely, correct me if I'm wrong), practiced just once on that T-joint, and then went to work on the car, when you should have re-created the actual joint you planned on welding. And then another, and then another. After about 5-6 pieces you should have been able to arrive at a good set of welding parameters (WFS/V).

With that proper practice you would have likely seen that your initial settings were too hot for the actual joint geometry/orientation. Uphill works great with the right settings, but more tricky than downhill. The problem with Auto-set is that it is not meant as a substitute for actual welding knowledge, and it is meant for a ball-park figure for a T-joint like the one you set up. The second you deviate from that T-joint, all bets are off, and you have to tweak and tweak until you find your own "just right" settings, especially if you're going from flat-horizontal welding to vertical up/down-hill. All bets are off in that case, as your weld clearly shows on that outside corner.

That being said, outside corners take the least amount of heat to weld, compared to other joint configurations. Vertical joints take less heat than flat 1F/2F joints. Combine those two, and your overall weld parameters should be about 25-40% lower than what a 1/8" T-joint needs. You basically need to be in the range of roughly 18-16ga material. Even then, you can't rely on solely Auto-set for 18-16ga material, you must test it out first and tweak from there. Your gas flow should would be ok at 17 CFH, so long as your nozzle is very close to the joint AND you don't get any porosity on your practice test pieces (hint, hint). You will quickly see pin-holes and a sparkler show will commence if you lose shielding gas coverage. Outside corners split the shielding gas and don't trap it like a T-joint does, so I wouldn't take a chance and I'd use no less than 25CFH to be on the safe side.

But at this point, you're likely going to have to repair that vertical outside corner, so that opens up another can of worms. Best to ask questions before you weld if you're not sure. I guarantee had you asked before, and followed advice of course, you'd have had a much better chance of success on that outside corner. Guaranteed or your money back!

[LanceL]

Oscar, I hope that's your name. Thank you for the reply and help. You're right I didn't practice much other than the T joint like you said. I actually thought this wouldn't be that hard to weld up and be done with it. I am really bummed. I can't tell exactly what is wrong with the practice welds or if they are penetrating etc. to know if what I am doing is right or not good. I thought this welder would make it easier for this stuff.

Anyway I am not keeping that metal in there. Cutting it out today!!! Practicing on a whole lot of metal like you said and recreating what I am going to do and then do it.

The gas from my receipt says compressed gas, N.O.S. (argon, carbon dioxide) 2.2, then it says Argon 90 CD 8 OX 2 CGA

[Oscar]

Yes, that's my name, or General Zod works too.

Without seeing a picture of the label on your gas tank, I'd say they sold you 90% Argon /8% CO2 / 2% Oxygen. That is a mix for spray-transfer or pulsed-spray transfer. You are doing plain jane short-circuit MIG welding, which should be with C25. Not saying it can't be made to work, but it sure isn't helping you. If my speculation is correct about those gases and percentages, then it's not good when you're first learning to weld. I've played around with different mixes with those three gases, it's for specific wires and/or arc transfer methods and/or specialized scenarios (IE: just as a side-track, if it has oxygen, it increases the heat in the weld puddle for deeper penetration, at the expense of the weldor having to deal with additional puddle fluidity, because [small percentages of] oxygen reduces the surface tension of a liquid metal puddle causing it to flow/wet-out very very easily---definitely not something you want when the liquid metal puddle is vertical and gravity wants to pull it down already!). If the tank is still pretty full, take it back and say it doesn't work with your welder, and that you want regular ol' C25.

[LanceL]

General Zod, here is the receipt for the gas and it is the one yous said. I am going to Airgas in the morning to swap it out for the one I wanted originally that they talked me out of. I am really pissed because I asked for 75/25 and they sold me this stuff.

[Oscar]

Yup there it is. Now it makes sense looking at the lable. The "CGA" at the end isn't part of the gas mix, it's part of the CGA-580, which is a designation for the valve on the tank. But yes, you can clearly see it is 90% AR/8% CO2/2% O2. Again, not saying it can't work in the hands of an experienced weldor, but I honestly think it's best to eliminate one possible variable because you're barely starting out. In a couple years you can come back it if you ever want to try it out, but C25 is all you need.

[LanceL]

Thanks general!! I am switching it in the morning!! Airgas tried to tell me they couldn't swap it free and I kinda had to tell the guy that sold it to me, that he made me get the wrong stuff! He knew I was not to pleased.

[tweake]

Without seeing a picture of the label on your gas tank, I'd say they sold you 90% Argon /8% CO2 / 2% Oxygen. That is a mix for spray-transfer or pulsed-spray transfer. You are doing plain jane short-circuit MIG welding, which should be with C25. Not saying it can't be made to work, but it sure isn't helping you..

sorry but no.
the gas is absolutly fine, theres no reason to change it. its actually a good mix.
that mix is the standard gas here, especially for hobbyist as thats what most suppliers provide.
its all i have ever used on my mig and i'm certainly not an experienced mig welder.

the problem is more likely just dailing in the right settings for the joint config and using the right manipulation.
get the right contact tip distance, get that nice bacon sound.

[Oscar]

Well you have more experience than Lance though. Agree to disagree.

[LanceL]

Thanks a lot guys for the help. I swapped the gas. I am going to practice on a whole bunch of pieces today. Up, down, sideways whatever and I will post the pics of them. I am getting this "right"!!

[Oscar]

Thanks a lot guys for the help. I swapped the gas. I am going to practice on a whole bunch of pieces today. Up, down, sideways whatever and I will post the pics of them. I am getting this "right"!!

Before you start and waste wire and shielding gas, please ask questions. That last thing you want is for us to tell you that you just wasted 1/2 your new tank of gas, 4 hours of your life, and also wasted all that scrap you just prepared to "learn".

[tweake]

Thanks a lot guys for the help. I swapped the gas. I am going to practice on a whole bunch of pieces today. Up, down, sideways whatever and I will post the pics of them. I am getting this "right"!!

well thats a waste of perfectly good gas

this is one of the problems with learning by yourself. a lot of the guys on the web are pro's and often only have experience in the stuff they do, so anything outside of that is "wrong".
a lot of guys only ever do one kind of welding with one setup, thats all they know.
you just have to remember what context comments are said in.

[Thatkid2diesel]

Yes, that's my name, or General Zod works too. [emoji38]

Without seeing a picture of the label on your gas tank, I'd say they sold you 90% Argon /8% CO2 / 2% Oxygen. That is a mix for spray-transfer or pulsed-spray transfer. You are doing plain jane short-circuit MIG welding, which should be with C25. Not saying it can't be made to work, but it sure isn't helping you. If my speculation is correct about those gases and percentages, then it's not good when you're first learning to weld. I've played around with different mixes with those three gases, it's for specific wires and/or arc transfer methods and/or specialized scenarios (IE: just as a side-track, if it has oxygen, it increases the heat in the weld puddle for deeper penetration, at the expense of the weldor having to deal with additional puddle fluidity, because [small percentages of] oxygen reduces the surface tension of a liquid metal puddle causing it to flow/wet-out very very easily---definitely not something you want when the liquid metal puddle is vertical and gravity wants to pull it down already!). If the tank is still pretty full, take it back and say it doesn't work with your welder, and that you want regular ol' C25.

Around my area 92/8 is used exclusively for spray transfer as that what our LWS stocks.C25 or 100% co2 is the preferred gases at least around me for short circuit and globular.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Coldman]

Nothing wrong with 93/8. It's probably the best gas to use for your small machine. C25 is good for heavier structural industrial work. Your lws did you a favour.

[sbaker56]

Yes, that's my name, or General Zod works too.

Without seeing a picture of the label on your gas tank, I'd say they sold you 90% Argon /8% CO2 / 2% Oxygen. That is a mix for spray-transfer or pulsed-spray transfer. You are doing plain jane short-circuit MIG welding, which should be with C25. Not saying it can't be made to work, but it sure isn't helping you. If my speculation is correct about those gases and percentages, then it's not good when you're first learning to weld. I've played around with different mixes with those three gases, it's for specific wires and/or arc transfer methods and/or specialized scenarios (IE: just as a side-track, if it has oxygen, it increases the heat in the weld puddle for deeper penetration, at the expense of the weldor having to deal with additional puddle fluidity, because [small percentages of] oxygen reduces the surface tension of a liquid metal puddle causing it to flow/wet-out very very easily---definitely not something you want when the liquid metal puddle is vertical and gravity wants to pull it down already!). If the tank is still pretty full, take it back and say it doesn't work with your welder, and that you want regular ol' C25.

I can't lie, as far as I'm concerned, you're Zod to me.

[sbaker56]

Yes, that's my name, or General Zod works too.

Without seeing a picture of the label on your gas tank, I'd say they sold you 90% Argon /8% CO2 / 2% Oxygen. That is a mix for spray-transfer or pulsed-spray transfer. You are doing plain jane short-circuit MIG welding, which should be with C25. Not saying it can't be made to work, but it sure isn't helping you. If my speculation is correct about those gases and percentages, then it's not good when you're first learning to weld. I've played around with different mixes with those three gases, it's for specific wires and/or arc transfer methods and/or specialized scenarios (IE: just as a side-track, if it has oxygen, it increases the heat in the weld puddle for deeper penetration, at the expense of the weldor having to deal with additional puddle fluidity, because [small percentages of] oxygen reduces the surface tension of a liquid metal puddle causing it to flow/wet-out very very easily---definitely not something you want when the liquid metal puddle is vertical and gravity wants to pull it down already!). If the tank is still pretty full, take it back and say it doesn't work with your welder, and that you want regular ol' C25.

I can't lie, as far as I'm concerned, you're Zod to me.

[Poland308]

Quick question. How does 93-8 work as a 100% ratio? I’m probably missing something.

[Coldman]

That's what happens when you try typing on little phone buttons with hands that look like a couple pounds of beef sausages.

[BillE.Dee]

That's what happens when you try typing on little phone buttons with hands that look like a couple pounds of beef sausages.

Looks to me that coldman got the gloves from Josh that I was supposed to get instead of the table. By the way, Coldman, how do the underwear fit??

[Coldman]

He ain't kicked the bucket yet and won't give out squat till he does. Won't even tell me how many hours he's got on my TA.

[Poland308]

89C896F5-4BC3-4829-95A8-14908C8734DB.jpeg (57.12 KiB) Viewed 3613 times

Been too busy to think. Once shelter in place started I started refinishing the bathroom upstairs. Then got the electrician to replace the house panel, put in a 200 amp service. They come today to pull new wire from the hose to the garage so I can bump up from a 50 amp panel to a 100 out there. But to make that work I had to dig up the back yard and run a new conduit from the garage to the house, made it big enough to run a air line through it back into the house, no more stringing air line through the back door on rainy days. Since I had to dig up the backyard, I decided it was time dig in a new 4 inch drain tile with drop boxes for the new gutters that go on before winter. And I scheduled the concrete guy to pour a new patio, and ramp down to the shed so I can drive the snow blower up instead of going around the house ( there were stairs. Snowblowers don’t like stairs). Plus he’s going to make the driveway wider for more space ( 4 cars in front of the garage instead of 2) and 4 ft wider on the drive so I can drive the bike by a parked car. Put 2500 miles on my bike , that required new tires. Plus I went to work a few times, and I started cleaning and rearranging the garage ( if I can make enough room I’m going to see about a bigger lathe, hence the new 100 amp panel) if I die it will be from working.

[Coldman]

Fantastic upgrades! No motivational issues with you! You're gonna be so pleased for years and earned brownie points with the missus too!
I still go into work every day. Slowed down alot. I've been using the time for a big brutal tidy up. Reclaimed shop floor space and cleared out the mezzanine and parts shelves. Also been doing some small shop projects that are neat.

Don't know squat about snow, never seen up close. Sounds awful.

[BillE.Dee]

that snow stuff isn't too bad, IF ya stay inside. We have some of it that isn't slippery and some is very slippy. Just ask some drivers that go 75 mph during the first snow.

[LanceL]

General Zod I sent you a PM but not sure it went through??

[Oscar]

Yes I got the PM, you made real good progress by doing it the right way, by testing/tweaking what will work for you. Remember I am claiming to be any kind of final authority; you should always gather others' opinions as well!