noddybrian wrote:That is indeed an interesting & unusual project - if 7024 is what is generically referred to as an " iron powder rod " over here you are still low on amps for any of the rods I've used over the years - nice rod on large welds or cap runs but not my choice especially if you can't roll the beam & need to do positional welds - I would use 7016 or 7018 for the entire weld ( 7016 is easier to control doing vertical ) the danger with undersized Migs on a job like this is the root run will be on a large mass of cold steel & while it can look OK often lacks fusion - subsequent passes just cover this defect up - as to number of passes that kinda varies with style / bead size - I would say on any structural piece such as this I would do either a single 70 > 75 degree bevel on both parts - allow a small root gap to ensure reinforcement on the root face then just keep stacking over lapping beads till almost flush + a cap - or bevel from both sides same angle & after doing the root - back grind it then fill from both sides to put slightly less stress into it - also while just an end to end butt should be as strong as the original material I would add a diamond shape reinforcement plate on the lower web that is in tension at least - possible the upright as well
Do you mean 70° total? Or 140° total? 140 sounds too much. I had another question but i forget:(
weldin mike 27 wrote:As jody once said, the main difference between stick and mig is that with stick, you have a safety net. It has to be a certain amount of amps to run the rod, it won't work at all well without that amount of heat. The resulting bead will have reasonable fusion and hopefully penetration. With mig, the safety net is not there, the small wire melts at a vast range of heat. It's entirely possible to lay an entire weld without getting fusion or penetration. Think laying a bead of caulk.... Looks smooth, but is just sitting there. Obviously these pictures are the extreme examples but you can get some idea.
Ahhhh those are awful! I think i might have nightmares tonight. No need to be so graphic!
Oscar wrote:You did order extra I-beams so you do your practice welds and qualilfy your own weld procedure, right? This definitely falls into the category of "don't practice on the actual project". 3/8"within limits for the 215, except for the duty cycle. I would definitely still bevel it to get good penetration and so that the bead has somewhere to lay. I would probably still go with dual shield 035, but like I said, you'll have to practice to qualify your own procedure. It is pretty much a spray-transfer type of process, so it does go in very hot, and you'll feel it on the back of your gloves if they're not thick enough.
Extra i beams? No. Extra ends to practice on? yes.
I will try and post photos prior to actual weld. Maybe some cut and etch pics
Yeah, post some pictures pre weld prep, during passes and finished. Describe the process and even if you fail or decide another method, share what happened.
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
Radishfever wrote:Yeah, post some pictures pre weld prep, during passes and finished. Describe the process and even if you fail or decide another method, share what happened.
Im game!
One thing that concerns me is this beam. As i study it a bit i am learning.
It is w10x54. The web strikes me as awful thin. This makes sense because they came from a gas station. I assume the canopy. It needed lateral strength (wind etc.) Hense the thick flange. But it never needed to hold a real load. Thus the thin and short web. So i run the numbers on this great calculator..... www.webstructural.com/beam-designer.html#
And if you put an even load of 1kip/ft and support the beam at each end it fails on deflection (2.63")
Ok so the beam does not go plastic but how does all this movement effect the weld?
This beam will work for my project. But it's not the beam i would buy!
Thanks guys. Oh by the way. I started looking at welders online. What about the multimatic 255? Is there a welder you guys would recommend? I might "have to" upgrade.
Cheers
Radishfever wrote:Yeah, post some pictures pre weld prep, during passes and finished. Describe the process and even if you fail or decide another method, share what happened.
Im game!
One thing that concerns me is this beam. As i study it a bit i am learning.
It is w10x54. The web strikes me as awful thin. This makes sense because they came from a gas station. I assume the canopy. It needed lateral strength (wind etc.) Hense the thick flange. But it never needed to hold a real load. Thus the thin and short web. So i run the numbers on this great calculator..... www.webstructural.com/beam-designer.html#
And if you put an even load of 1kip/ft and support the beam at each end it fails on deflection (2.63")
Ok so the beam does not go plastic but how does all this movement effect the weld?
This beam will work for my project. But it's not the beam i would buy!
Thanks guys. Oh by the way. I started looking at welders online. What about the multimatic 255? Is there a welder you guys would recommend? I might "have to" upgrade.
Cheers
weldin mike 27 wrote:As jody once said, the main difference between stick and mig is that with stick, you have a safety net. It has to be a certain amount of amps to run the rod, it won't work at all well without that amount of heat. The resulting bead will have reasonable fusion and hopefully penetration. With mig, the safety net is not there, the small wire melts at a vast range of heat. It's entirely possible to lay an entire weld without getting fusion or penetration. Think laying a bead of caulk.... Looks smooth, but is just sitting there. Obviously these pictures are the extreme examples but you can get some idea.
+1 been there done that......wheres my t shirt
mig is very easy to make a great looking weld that does absolutely nothing.
the other thing is i would not do butt join but section the I beam. cut a notch out of one half of the width of the beam. more welding required but means your not relying 100% on the weld to take the load.
edit: its called a staggered butt join.
the other thing is i would not do butt join but section the I beam. cut a notch out of one half of the width of the beam. more welding required but means your not relying 100% on the weld to take the load.
edit: its called a staggered butt join.[/quote]
Could you or someone else either share a graphic or a photo of this technique. I understand in a simple way. This is like a lap joint in woodwork. But what direction are the laps. And how do you calculated the amount stagger.
Can you tell I’m not an ironworker?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
the other thing is i would not do butt join but section the I beam. cut a notch out of one half of the width of the beam. more welding required but means your not relying 100% on the weld to take the load.
edit: its called a staggered butt join.
Could you or someone else either share a graphic or a photo of this technique. I understand in a simple way. This is like a lap joint in woodwork. But what direction are the laps. And how do you calculated the amount stagger.
Can you tell I’m not an ironworker?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
could not find a pic.
think of it as a overlap joint with timber but in the other dimension ie the height instead of the width.
i have no technical info. i've only run into it with truck chassis.
a quick google suggests an angle cut will also work well. go back from the end of the beam double the height of the beam on both beams and start the angle from there.
What I find interesting about the graphic just shared. Notice the slight notches in the webbing where the flanges are butt jointed. I bet that those must be to relieve stress from the cutting and prevents future chance of cracking.
Excuse my lingo I’m not an ironworker.
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Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
Radishfever wrote:What I find interesting about the graphic just shared. Notice the slight notches in the webbing where the flanges are butt jointed. I bet that those must be to relieve stress from the cutting and prevents future chance of cracking.
Excuse my lingo I’m not an ironworker.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those are key holes. Their they're so you can weld the flange right through and then they recommend filling in the keyhole. I believe this section is geared towards much bigger I beams than what I have.
It's actually about the same size as all that XMT350 stuff. Maybe even a touch smaller.
How about weight? I think the xmt is 80lb. Something i can lift
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
It's right around there, it's an inverter, so about 80-85lbs unloaded. I'm not that strong and even I can pick it up if I grab it from the corners. It definitely isn't for everybody @ $4900, but this thing can almost weld by itself with all the bells and whistles that it has. And hey, even it's little brother the ProPulse 220 MTS can do 0.352" on 0.035" dual shield flux core at max power. Send them your Miller and get a discount on it!
This is the list of synergic programs already built into the ProPulse 220MTS:
Oscar wrote:
It's actually about the same size as all that XMT350 stuff. Maybe even a touch smaller.
How about weight? I think the xmt is 80lb. Something i can lift
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
It's right around there, it's an inverter, so about 80-85lbs unloaded. I'm not that strong and even I can pick it up if I grab it from the corners. It definitely isn't for everybody @ $4900, but this thing can almost weld by itself with all the bells and whistles that it has. [emoji38] And hey, even it's little brother the ProPulse 220 MTS can do 0.352" on 0.035" dual shield flux core at max power. Send them your Miller and get a discount on it!
This is the list of synergic programs already built into the ProPulse 220MTS:
The ProPulse 220 MTS has a lower amperage range than my machine!
The duty cycle is deceptive with the ambient temperature @77. Notice their duty cycle drops to 25% at 104°f
Not trying to hate but i could not find a certificate.
Oscar wrote:
It's actually about the same size as all that XMT350 stuff. Maybe even a touch smaller.
How about weight? I think the xmt is 80lb. Something i can lift
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
It's right around there, it's an inverter, so about 80-85lbs unloaded. I'm not that strong and even I can pick it up if I grab it from the corners. It definitely isn't for everybody @ $4900, but this thing can almost weld by itself with all the bells and whistles that it has. [emoji38] And hey, even it's little brother the ProPulse 220 MTS can do 0.352" on 0.035" dual shield flux core at max power. Send them your Miller and get a discount on it!
This is the list of synergic programs already built into the ProPulse 220MTS:
The ProPulse 220 MTS has a lower amperage range than my machine!
The duty cycle is deceptive with the ambient temperature @77. Notice their duty cycle drops to 25% at 104°f
Well, what ever welder gets used doesn't mean a whole lot to me. But I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures and hearing how the welding part goes. Being a hobbyist frees me from over worrying about what machine I have. To me it's more about how much experience I can get for the dollar. And when I do buy stuff I always look for small manufacturers to support.
As A hobbyist I'm really glad that I didn't over spend on any of my purchases. Gives me the room to grow later without feeling guilt now.
Thanks for sharing your project with us,
Kirk
Learning is the best part of life and the most painful
Radishfever wrote:Well, what ever welder gets used doesn't mean a whole lot to me. But I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures and hearing how the welding part goes. Being a hobbyist frees me from over worrying about what machine I have. To me it's more about how much experience I can get for the dollar. And when I do buy stuff I always look for small manufacturers to support.
As A hobbyist I'm really glad that I didn't over spend on any of my purchases. Gives me the room to grow later without feeling guilt now.
Thanks for sharing your project with us,
Kirk
I hope to have some practice weld pics today. It will be stick for now. The dual shield wire is on order and will not arrive for a week.
