[Simclardy]

I have a couple of large i beams i want to weld for lifting my house and i was looking for advice.
The beams are 1/2" thick 8" flange by 12"web.

I am most comfortable tig welding but i hate it outside so that's out. My next favorite is fcma-s. This is what i am leaning towards. Still need to pick which type wire. Then my second option is stick welding with say 6010 and then 7018. I'm decent but not totally comfortable. Especially overhead. And then i hear so much about fcaw-g that i thought i might consider it. I never really tried it and from my reading it does not seem to have a big advantages for my purpose.
What do you recommend?
Structural integrity is my main priority, then speed, then aesthetics.
Thanks guys. I will share photos as the project progresses.



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[Oscar]

It would really help to know which machine you have, what is the maxiumum output, and at what duty cycle.

[Simclardy]

It would really help to know which machine you have, what is the maxiumum output, and at what duty cycle.

Yes. Miller multimatic 215 can handle up to 3/8 with 0.035 and 0.045.
Voltage/wfs recommended is 23.1/387 and 21/223.

I also have the everlast powertig 250ex. If stick is the choice. I would probably still use the Miller for portability reasons.
Thanks


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[Louie1961]

a multimatic 215 is not going to weld 1/2 inch thick steel, except maybe with stick. How are you welding these beams together? end to end butt joint, or some other configuration?

[Simclardy]

a multimatic 215 is not going to weld 1/2 inch thick steel, except maybe with stick. How are you welding these beams together? end to end butt joint, or some other configuration?

End to end. I will add a flat plate in the web for added strength.
Is there a problem with multiple passes?
I planned on beveling and running multiple beads no matter what process i use.


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[Oscar]

A couple things:

• Do you already have an M25 MIG gun for this project? (you will smoke the stock M10 gun with this project if you do use it for MIG)
• If you do use the MIG side of that machine, be very careful. I smoked my 211 inverter's main board by running it near it's maximum capacity and not paying attention to the (idiot) thermal indicator. The machine does not have an auto-shut down feather (that I know of), so it is possible to drive it to self-destruction

Using the stick side of it, will keep the duty cycle in check, but you might want to check if it can run E6010. Purportedly it can, but I don't have any conclusive evidence. A lot of times, multi-process MIGs skimp on the Stick side, but not all. Esab Rebel's can run E6010's, for example. My HTP ProPulse 220MTS cannot, it was give just a basic stick welding operation, as it is a MIG welder first and foremost. But then you'll be chipping and brushing slag quite a bit doing that. I'd venture to say dual shield E71T-1C/1M would be the best choice for this project, but standard solid wire can work just as well. Like you said, you'll have to bevel and run multiple passes. Just gotta watch that duty cycle.

[Simclardy]

A couple things:

• Do you already have an M25 MIG gun for this project? (you will smoke the stock M10 gun with this project if you do use it for MIG)
• If you do use the MIG side of that machine, be very careful. I smoked my 211 inverter's main board by running it near it's maximum capacity and not paying attention to the (idiot) thermal indicator. The machine does not have an auto-shut down feather (that I know of), so it is possible to drive it to self-destruction

I believe mine has thermal overload protection. I just pulled this off of the miller spec sheet.
Thermal overload protection automatically
shuts down the power source if airflow through
the unit is blocked or the duty cycle is exceeded.

I did upgrade the gun to the #249039 when I purchased. The m10 is 100amp my gun is 150amp.

I think all electronic based units add a level of weakness not found in older machines. Not saying they are not reliable, but they suffer from different types of failures and often times it is much harder to pin point the cause.
I'm an electrician and I repair a fair amount of appliances and yes electronics are a weakness, don't care what they say.

Any recommendation on the self shielding flux core wire to use? I have 10lb of hyperglide 71t-gs. It is not recommended for structural work, multi-pass, and has low penetration. Not sure why i ever bought it? I will try to get my hands on the dual shield wire you mentioned and give it a go.
thanks
sandy

PS. I still have 7 months on the warranty!

[Simclardy]

just noticed that the photo is cropped when viewing on my laptop (windows 7) but ok on my android phone? weird.

[Oscar]

A couple things:

• Do you already have an M25 MIG gun for this project? (you will smoke the stock M10 gun with this project if you do use it for MIG)
• If you do use the MIG side of that machine, be very careful. I smoked my 211 inverter's main board by running it near it's maximum capacity and not paying attention to the (idiot) thermal indicator. The machine does not have an auto-shut down feather (that I know of), so it is possible to drive it to self-destruction

I believe mine has thermal overload protection. I just pulled this off of the miller spec sheet.
Thermal overload protection automatically
shuts down the power source if airflow through
the unit is blocked or the duty cycle is exceeded.

I did upgrade the gun to the #249039 when I purchased. The m10 is 100amp my gun is 150amp.

I think all electronic based units add a level of weakness not found in older machines. Not saying they are not reliable, but they suffer from different types of failures and often times it is much harder to pin point the cause.
I'm an electrician and I repair a fair amount of appliances and yes electronics are a weakness, don't care what they say.

Any recommendation on the self shielding flux core wire to use? I have 10lb of hyperglide 71t-gs. It is not recommended for structural work, multi-pass, and has low penetration. Not sure why i ever bought it? I will try to get my hands on the dual shield wire you mentioned and give it a go.
thanks
sandy

PS. I still have 7 months on the warranty!

I dont think any gas-less flux core is rated for structural type welds. The tensile strength might be there, just not the vibration resistance nor cyclic loading, depending on the actual loads/stresses.

There's dual shield in many "brands". Lincoln arguably being one of the best, but there's lots others that can provide great results. You definitely want an 045 wire diameter, and the optimum range is roughly 200-300A. Alternatively, you can run an 035 wire from about 160-220A but you'd have to do multiple passes either way. E71T-1C/1M is the class designation for use with both C25 and C100. This would probably be the fastest way. Stick would be the slowest. Short circuit mig somewhere in between. You should also be able to do spray transfer with a 92/8 Ar/CO2 mix, but only in the flat horizontal position due to puddle fluidity.

[Simclardy]

Thanks oscar. I think im stuck with 0.035. My machine has a max output of 230amps and a duty cycle of 20% running 200a @ 24v



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[weldin mike 27]

With those small machines, stick will give you more bang for your buck. You can can weld almost anything with a 3.25 mm or 4mm rod, where as the mig will be limited to about 6mm

[noddybrian]

I agree with Mike - that welder seems kinda small to attempt that thickness - most fab shops doing 1/2" would be running 350's as a minimum - I run a 500 but never max it out - it's just about duty cycle - if your limited on amps then stick is the best option in my opinion - especially if your working outside.

[weldin mike 27]

If you are in the flat and horizontal fillet pos, get some 7024 rods and lay some slick beads.

[Simclardy]

I agree with Mike - that welder seems kinda small to attempt that thickness - most fab shops doing 1/2" would be running 350's as a minimum - I run a 500 but never max it out - it's just about duty cycle - if your limited on amps then stick is the best option in my opinion - especially if your working outside.

Wow, i am disappointed in the machine. Might have to fix that. I was under the impression that i could weld 10" steel as long as i was willing to stack a million beads.
In the mean time, how many passes do you run with your wire machine? How many passes should i expect to run with 7024 or 7018?

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[LtBadd]

I have a couple of large i beams i want to weld for lifting my house and i was looking for advice.
The beams are 1/2" thick 8" flange by 12"web.

I want to know about the "lifting my house" part, what cha doing?

[Radishfever]

I have a couple of large i beams i want to weld for lifting my house and i was looking for advice.
The beams are 1/2" thick 8" flange by 12"web.

I want to know about the "lifting my house" part, what cha doing?

And if you could, some photos of what you are doing would really help the story. Take some of the beams and also take some photos of what you are lifting and where the beams are going.

Thanks for sharing


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[Oscar]

Wow, i am disappointed in the machine. Might have to fix that. I was under the impression that i could weld 10" steel as long as i was willing to stack a million beads.

Well you'd have to do some serious beveling to 10" thick steel, LOL. 1/2" is doable, as I did so with my 211 inverter, but you do have to bevel. As was mentioned, you get the most bang-for-the-amp with stick welding.

[Simclardy]

I have a couple of large i beams i want to weld for lifting my house and i was looking for advice.
The beams are 1/2" thick 8" flange by 12"web.

I want to know about the "lifting my house" part, what cha doing?

This is my 1865 home. I am adding a basement.
The beam is a bit of a barter. I weld the beams together, i get to use them, and then the house lifter gets to have more useful beams. They are 16' and they will be 32'.
I will update photos of beams once they arrive. Cheers

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[Oscar]

Very interesting project!

[noddybrian]

That is indeed an interesting & unusual project - if 7024 is what is generically referred to as an " iron powder rod " over here you are still low on amps for any of the rods I've used over the years - nice rod on large welds or cap runs but not my choice especially if you can't roll the beam & need to do positional welds - I would use 7016 or 7018 for the entire weld ( 7016 is easier to control doing vertical ) the danger with undersized Migs on a job like this is the root run will be on a large mass of cold steel & while it can look OK often lacks fusion - subsequent passes just cover this defect up - as to number of passes that kinda varies with style / bead size - I would say on any structural piece such as this I would do either a single 70 > 75 degree bevel on both parts - allow a small root gap to ensure reinforcement on the root face then just keep stacking over lapping beads till almost flush + a cap - or bevel from both sides same angle & after doing the root - back grind it then fill from both sides to put slightly less stress into it - also while just an end to end butt should be as strong as the original material I would add a diamond shape reinforcement plate on the lower web that is in tension at least - possible the upright as well

[Louie1961]

In the mean time, how many passes do you run with your wire machine? How many passes should i expect to run with 7024 or 7018?

Depends on the process. I wouldn't really try to weld anything much thicker than 1/4 inch with short arc MIG. Yes in theory you could stack a million beads in there, but honestly short arc MIG is prone to cold lap, and lack of fusion. I wouldn't trust it with anything the size you are welding. Gas shielded flux core, spray arc in the flat position or pulsed spray arc out of position would be my choices for a wire feed welder and thicker material. Not sure if your machine can run FCAW-G or not.

For stick, as many passes as it needs to get to an appropriate size bead for the material being welded. You are going to have to bevel the snot out of it probably no matter the process.

I'd be worried that butt welding two I-beams together is not going to be nearly strong enough. You might be better off with a mechanical connection of some kind, not sure.

[Simclardy]

So the beams are 10x10
Web looks like 3/8 actual is 0.365"
Flange looks 5/8 actual 0.643"

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[Simclardy]

This is the spec for my everlast

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[Oscar]

You did order extra I-beams so you do your practice welds and qualilfy your own weld procedure, right? This definitely falls into the category of "don't practice on the actual project". 3/8"within limits for the 215, except for the duty cycle. I would definitely still bevel it to get good penetration and so that the bead has somewhere to lay. I would probably still go with dual shield 035, but like I said, you'll have to practice to qualify your own procedure. It is pretty much a spray-transfer type of process, so it does go in very hot, and you'll feel it on the back of your gloves if they're not thick enough.

[weldin mike 27]

As jody once said, the main difference between stick and mig is that with stick, you have a safety net. It has to be a certain amount of amps to run the rod, it won't work at all well without that amount of heat. The resulting bead will have reasonable fusion and hopefully penetration. With mig, the safety net is not there, the small wire melts at a vast range of heat. It's entirely possible to lay an entire weld without getting fusion or penetration. Think laying a bead of caulk.... Looks smooth, but is just sitting there. Obviously these pictures are the extreme examples but you can get some idea.