[Erik Mannie]

First of all, I like Miller. I hope that doesn't offend anybody. I am a welder's helper on Sundays (sort of an apprenticeship) and my awesome boss uses Miller machines. 99% of the work in the shop is MIG with C25. I showed up for work the first day ready to TIG weld. My MIG experience was just about zilch. So guess which one of us is doing the grinding and drilling.

My first welder was a $100 special from Harbor Freight in 2003. It did not use shielding gas, so I suppose it had flux core wire. Gosh, it was a piece of junk. Or more likely I was a terrible welder!

I currently have a Dynasty 210DX with CPS for TIG and stick and I love it so much. It calls to me. Maybe all welders are like that.

I really like this MIG welder: https://store.cyberweld.com/mil251witmet.html. At my Sunday apprenticeship, we use this Millermatic https://store.cyberweld.com/mi211migwewi.html.

I like 220V, and I have run into limitations with the 210A limit on my Dynasty. I should have bought a Dynasty 350, although I would not have been able to afford it.

I am enrolled in the Hobart Institute 38 week combination Structural and Pipe welding program, but it will take me 4 1/2 years because I have a non-welding related job that pays the bills.

The MIG welder will be used for...anything that comes up! I will start with practicing on scrap material. As I progress through Hobart, I will take on work (or keep working for my awesome boss). I want to be able to do any work that I can find. I will be 56 years old when I graduate from Hobart, so I've got that going for me. For financial reasons, I should probably work at my boring regular job until I am 65.

I am definitely going full time self-employed welding the day after my 65th birthday, and I think a Miller machine will be still going 13 years after purchase.

So I'm pretty jazzed about the Millermatic 252. Does it have any shortcomings? My wife gave the green light for me to put every cent of my welding shop earnings into a MIG welder.

[cj737]

The 252 is a great machine. The Dynasty should handle just about anything you’d do as a Side Job Welder. Can’t imagine what you ran into that read more than 200 amps unless it was TIG aluminum. In that instance, you can add Helium to your Argon mix to get you beyond the limits of the 200 amp heat.

[Erik Mannie]

The 252 is a great machine. The Dynasty should handle just about anything you’d do as a Side Job Welder. Can’t imagine what you ran into that read more than 200 amps unless it was TIG aluminum. In that instance, you can add Helium to your Argon mix to get you beyond the limits of the 200 amp heat.

It was TIG aluminum, and thanks for reminding me about adding helium.

I will be saving up for the Millermatic 252. It will take a long time only working on Sundays.

My favorite welding process is TIG. My second favorite is oxyacetylene. My third favorite is stick. I haven't been much of a fan of MIG, but watching my boss has shown me how fast MIG can be. He has been doing 99% MIG for 25 years, so you can imagine how fast he is.

I feel very lucky that he took me on. I am definitely soaking it in. Gosh, do I have a front row seat for the show! I should be paying him, but I earn my money with the drilling and grinding.

I still have a continuing issue about buying an O/A setup because my wife runs a daycare out of our home. I can't store the O/A in our storage unit, either. I don't know where I could store my O/A. I can have it here on the weekends. Maybe I could rent the O/A tanks for a weekend when I will be doing the brazing.

[Louie1961]

I love my Miller welders. Consider watching Craig's List for a decent used unit. I got my 4 year old MM252 in like new condition, with 60 feet of 8/3 SOOW power cord on it, a full 44 lb spool of 035 Lincoln wire, and a 15 foot, 300 amp Bernard Q gun all for $1500.

[Erik Mannie]

I love my Miller welders. Consider watching Craig's List for a decent used unit. I got my 4 year old MM252 in like new condition, with 60 feet of 8/3 SOOW power cord on it, a full 44 lb spool of 035 Lincoln wire, and a 15 foot, 300 amp Bernard Q gun all for $1500.

That was an amazing deal! I will scope out Craig's List.

[Erik Mannie]

So I finally got a Miller MultiMatic 252. I bought a new one for $2,669. This will be my first quality MIG machine.

The bad news is that I only had the money for it because I cancelled my first trip to go to The Hobart Institute. This is the money that was earmarked for tuition for 8 weeks of classes. I might not ever get the money to go there. I need a vertical milling machine and $14,000 in fixtures for my bicycle frame building project.

I have been working in a MIG shop for a few months, and I still only do the cutting, drilling and grinding. Only on rare occasions does my boss even let me do tack welds. But now, I can practice at home all I want, and I have unlimited access to free scrap steel.

My boss has been MIG welding full time for 25 years, so I will have to get pretty good to get him to pass me the stinger!

[cj737]

So I finally got a Miller MultiMatic 252. I bought a new one for $2,669. This will be my first quality MIG machine.

The bad news is that I only had the money for it because I cancelled my first trip to go to The Hobart Institute. This is the money that was earmarked for tuition for 8 weeks of classes. I might not ever get the money to go there. I need a vertical milling machine and $14,000 in fixtures for my bicycle frame building project.

I have been working in a MIG shop for a few months, and I still only do the cutting, drilling and grinding. Only on rare occasions does my boss even let me do tack welds. But now, I can practice at home all I want, and I have unlimited access to free scrap steel.

My boss has been MIG welding full time for 25 years, so I will have to get pretty good to get him to pass me the stinger!

Dude, for $2,600 you could have/shuold have purchased either the new Miller MultiMatic 220 or Esab multiprocess AC/DC box. You’d have MIG! TIG and Stick for AC and DC in a single box, inverter-based, and running on less than 30amps on a 240v circuit.

As for the $14k in fixtures, don’t buy them, make them. You can EASILY find a local machinist/CNC/MakerSpace to mill your own. The plans ar widely available and the material is a fraction of the price. Be resourceful for Pete’s Sake! $14k! Sheesh! That’s a lot of frames to resell to pay for that...

[Erik Mannie]

So I finally got a Miller MultiMatic 252. I bought a new one for $2,669. This will be my first quality MIG machine.

The bad news is that I only had the money for it because I cancelled my first trip to go to The Hobart Institute. This is the money that was earmarked for tuition for 8 weeks of classes. I might not ever get the money to go there. I need a vertical milling machine and $14,000 in fixtures for my bicycle frame building project.

I have been working in a MIG shop for a few months, and I still only do the cutting, drilling and grinding. Only on rare occasions does my boss even let me do tack welds. But now, I can practice at home all I want, and I have unlimited access to free scrap steel.

My boss has been MIG welding full time for 25 years, so I will have to get pretty good to get him to pass me the stinger!

Dude, for $2,600 you could have/shuold have purchased either the new Miller MultiMatic 220 or Esab multiprocess AC/DC box. You’d have MIG! TIG and Stick for AC and DC in a single box, inverter-based, and running on less than 30amps on a 240v circuit.

As for the $14k in fixtures, don’t buy them, make them. You can EASILY find a local machinist/CNC/MakerSpace to mill your own. The plans ar widely available and the material is a fraction of the price. Be resourceful for Pete’s Sake! $14k! Sheesh! That’s a lot of frames to resell to pay for that...

Good points. I already have a Dynasty 210 DX for TIG and stick which I really love. I actually have OCD, so I am unreasonably particular about my tools and equipment. Once I have one Miller power supply, I would only feel comfortable with more Millers. Be glad if you don't have OCD. And so it also goes with the Anvil fixtures. I already have one, so it would bother me if the others weren't Anvil, as well. My cross to bear.

[Erik Mannie]

The MillerMatic comes with a free roll of flux-cored wire. I had always planned to buy two Q size cylinders of C25 and use solid ER70S-6 because that is what we always use at the welding shop.

With my TIG welding, I bought two Q size cylinders. I use one cylinder until it is empty. Once I start using that second cylinder, I start making plans to refill the empty cylinder ASAP. The LWS sometimes has a one week delay in providing more Argon. It is hard for me to get to the LWS because I always work during the hours that it is open.

At the bottom of this article https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/a ... em-and-why, it refers to "self-shielded flux-cored wire and gas-shielded flux-cored wire", so I will read up on the wire that they send to see if I should use the C25. This article was the first time that I had ever heard about MIG welding without shielding gas! It says "Self-shielding flux-cored wire does not require external shielding gas because the weld pool is protected by gas generated when flux from the wire is burned. As a result, self-shielding flux-cored wire is more portable because it does not require an external gas tank."

[cj737]

Flux Core wire is self-shielded and does not use a gas. It’s basically a wire Spool of 7018 Stick Rod. Very handy for some types of welding, not so much for your bike thingy. Dual shield wire (Flux Core + Gas) is a variation of Flux Core but relies on 75/25 MIG gas for the shielding. Just like Flux Core, but you get a prettier weld.

Flux Core as a process wants straight polarity (DCEN) where Dual Shield is DCEP (like MIG). Your MM probably would want different wire rollers an possibly a liner change in the gun to run FC and DS wire well.

[Louie1961]

Dude, for $2,600 you could have/shuold have purchased either the new Miller MultiMatic 220 or Esab multiprocess AC/DC box. You’d have MIG! TIG and Stick for AC and DC in a single box, inverter-based, and running on less than 30amps on a 240v circuit.

I couldn't disagree more. The millermatic 220 is not going to have the top end power or duty cycle of the MM252 (230 amps vs 300 amps). You can use that power and duty cycle to run 0.045 gas shielded flux core, and other cored wires. Think of gas shielded flux core (also called dual shield by many) as a continuous form of 7018 welding. It burns hot, it is a low hydrogen process with high charpy impact ratings, and it is a very productive process. The 252 is just a much more capable MIG welder than 220. You made exactly the right call. Save up for a spool gun and your MM 252 will weld almost anything you want. Between that and the dynasty, you may likely never need another welder.

[Louie1961]

The MillerMatic comes with a free roll of flux-cored wire. I had always planned to buy two Q size cylinders of C25 and use solid ER70S-6 because that is what we always use at the welding shop.

Honestly, if you use the MM252 to its fullest, you may end up with 3-4 different types of gas. I run 100% CO2 almost exclusively. Its cheap and it works well enough with hardwire (to a point) and works well with dual shield. I also use C25 for thinner gauge stuff or stuff that must look really pretty. You will need 100% argon (which you already have for your dynasty) if you do spool gun aluminum. You might end up wanting a gas mix for spray transfer (like a 98%/2% argon oxygen mix) and you might end up wanting a mix for welding stainless (trimix- 90% Helium/7.5% argon/2.5% CO2)

[cj737]

Dude, for $2,600 you could have/shuold have purchased either the new Miller MultiMatic 220 or Esab multiprocess AC/DC box. You’d have MIG! TIG and Stick for AC and DC in a single box, inverter-based, and running on less than 30amps on a 240v circuit.

I couldn't disagree more. The millermatic 220 is not going to have the top end power or duty cycle of the MM252 (230 amps vs 300 amps). You can use that power and duty cycle to run 0.045 gas shielded flux core, and other cored wires. Think of gas shielded flux core (also called dual shield by many) as a continuous form of 7018 welding. It burns hot, it is a low hydrogen process with high charpy impact ratings, and it is a very productive process. The 252 is just a much more capable MIG welder than 220. You made exactly the right call. Save up for a spool gun and your MM 252 will weld almost anything you want. Between that and the dynasty, you may likely never need another welder.

This recommendation was based upon his expressed need in other threads about having a portable welding shop in his van, or a trailer, or travel space. Yes, the 252 is a much better MIG specific machine, but, taken in context to his expressed needs for welding up an E-bike and it’s parts, the 252 is a shop machine and not very portable.

I also doubt he will run 0.045 wire for anything bike-related, nor is it likely he will run FC or DS wire once he understands these products and processes.

I have a MM200 and run FC and DS all day long with 0.035. The requirement for 0.045 is just not in my realm of gotta have it. Sure, there are times on certain jobs when 0.045, 0.058 and even 0.080 have been advantageous, but with a 12vs at my disposal, why run 0.045? If it needs more than 0.035, I spin up the 0.058 and get it done.

[Erik Mannie]

I might have a unique situation because I always work over 60 hours/week, so I won't have much time to make things for other people for 12 more years.

When I am not working, my only interest is working in my shop. My shop has always been a two car garage. When I tried to buy the van for the mobile shop, the price of the van was clearly unaffordable. I would never have had any money for tools, and I really enjoy buying and using tools.

I had hoped to go to Hobart to learn SMAW, FCAW and welding on pipe, but I don't see an application for that with what I do. I do enjoy using my Dynasty for SMAW, though. I will be pursuing SMAW, probably by taking some stick welding classes at Hobart.

The bicycle frame building project is going well because I did get formal training on that. My shop is designed to make frames and assemble ebikes. I have six bikes, so modifying and maintaining those keeps me busy. My bike projects are on the fringe. Even I consider them impractical, but I like experimentation.

The only other welding related thing that I do is working in my buddy's shop. I am a UPS driver, and he lives on my route. When I asked if I could work with him, I had no idea that 99% of his work is MIG on steel. I had thought that my TIG and brazing training would come into play, but he never does that.

I feel lucky that he took me in even though I had zero experience working in a welding shop. He has been doing it for 25+ years, so I will definitely capitalize on this opportunity to learn what he has to teach. Months of watching him do all of the welding while I did the grinding, etc. made me want to get good at MIG welding so that I could put myself in a position to do the welding in the shop. The arrangement with him looks like it will go on for a very long time.

People who know me often ask why I spend so much time and money on tools and schools when there is no immediate outlook for revenue, but I look at what they are doing for hobbies and it sure doesn't appeal to me. My Dad is and Grandfather was the same way, always workin' in a 2 car garage shop.

[Erik Mannie]

So here is the welder for which I started the thread. I pictured it next to my Dynasty because I love it when things match.

I noticed that the Millermatic has a 3-prong 220V plug as opposed to the 4-prong of my Dynasty. Is this because the Millermatic is a transformer based machine as opposed to the inverter Dynasty?

I bought a Q sized cylinder of C25. I installed a 3-prong 220V outlet (using a 40A breaker and 8 gauge wire--I hope that's okay!), but I ran out of money before I could buy ER70S-6.

I am going to sell the Hobart E71T-11 flux-cored wire that came with the machine. Like I said, the main reason that I bought this welder was to learn to weld like we do at work, and my boss always uses solid core and C25.

[cj737]

3 prong is for single phases power, 4 prong is required to run 3 phase power. Has nothing to do with inverter or transformer. Your Dynasty is autosensing for the inbound power and will run 120v-480v, single or 3 phase. The MillerMatic is restricted to 240v single phase I believe.

[Erik Mannie]

3 prong is for single phases power, 4 prong is required to run 3 phase power. Has nothing to do with inverter or transformer. Your Dynasty is autosensing for the inbound power and will run 120v-480v, single or 3 phase. The MillerMatic is restricted to 240v single phase I believe.

That is really helpful. We got the two 220V outlets wired up in the new shop. I need to rent a truck to get the Millermatic 252 over there.

I listed the flux core on eBay, and today my boss paid me with an 11 pound box of .030" ER70S-2 which is the exact same wire that he always uses.

I will set my machine to the same settings that my boss uses. He generally leaves his Miller Multimatic 211 set to 16.5V and 150 inches per minute. He sets his gas flow to 30cfh.