Welding Tips and Tricks

I'm about to set about building my first motorcycle fuel tank, in aluminium.

"What could possibly go wrong?"

Seriously, my attitude is jump in, have a go, learn on the way. If the first one isn't quite right at the very least I know it will teach me a lot and give everyone on this forum a few laughs when I post photos. I consider creating an aluminium fuel tank pretty much the holy grail of motorcycle fabrication and it's time I made a start.

First question - what thickness of aluminium sheet should I use?

Next question - which type/grade of aluminium might be best for this?

Final question - where can I buy a weld-in aluminium threaded 'bung' and cap?

All advice and tips appreciated.

Cheers,



Kym

Don't know the answer to the first two questions but you can get weld in fittings from MSCN I think they are in Victoria

kym
.065 3003
craig

motox wrote:kym
.065 3003
craig

Craig -

Would it kill you to quote millimetres? Now I have to get my converter out again! Okay, so around 1.6mm. That sounds about right. Now I'm off to look at the properties of 3003.

Big Block...good tip. And they seem to have exactly what I'll need.

Thanks for the advice, people!


Kym

I have watched the biker build-off shows but they always used steel for fabbing, aluminum should be interesting.

exnailpounder wrote:I have watched the biker build-off shows but they always used steel for fabbing, aluminum should be interesting.

Yeah, steel doesn't really appeal to me at all. Besides, I want a natural aluminium finish.

I don't imagine it will be easy and there's every chance that the first attempt will be an ugly, leaking disaster, but I'm going to give it a shot and just like Edison, quite possibly find a thousand ways how not to do it before finally getting it right.

(Though hopefully mine won't turn out to be light bulb shaped.)

Cheers,


Kym

kym
3003 is nice to work with and it polishes up real nice.
it might listed as 3003h14.
craig

Looking forward to pictures of your build!

Thanks guys.

My 'best' local supplier (bear in mind I'm in a backwater of Australia...) has no 3000. The closest they can do is either 5005 or 5052. Would love to know what you guys think of these options.

Cheers,


Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:Thanks guys.

My 'best' local supplier (bear in mind I'm in a backwater of Australia...) has no 3000. The closest they can do is either 5005 or 5052. Would love to know what you guys think of these options.

Cheers,


Kym

Forget 5052 if you will be forming it, as it work hardens and needs re-annealing a lot. Its OK if you are bending or rolling.

I have a friend in NZ that uses 5005 for all his tanks. Same in NZ, no 3003 in any grade.

Go for -H32 ( quarter hard) as first choice, then -H34 ( half hard ). Unless your supplier has condition -0 annealed, then you've hit the jackpot ! Possible it could come in -H12 or -H22 ( quarter ) or -H14 or -H24 ( half hard)

kiwi2wheels wrote:

MosquitoMoto wrote:Thanks guys.

My 'best' local supplier (bear in mind I'm in a backwater of Australia...) has no 3000. The closest they can do is either 5005 or 5052. Would love to know what you guys think of these options.

Cheers,


Kym

Forget 5052 if you will be forming it, as it work hardens and needs re-annealing a lot. Its OK if you are bending or rolling.

I have a friend in NZ that uses 5005 for all his tanks. Same in NZ, no 3003 in any grade.

Go for -H32 ( quarter hard) as first choice, then -H34 ( half hard ). Unless your supplier has condition -0 annealed, then you've hit the jackpot ! Possible it could come in -H12 or H-22 ( quarter ) or -H14 or -H24 ( half hard)

Good specific advice, Kiwi, thanks. I wonder why no 3003 here in the Southern Colonies?

Can get 5005 but not in -H32, only in -H34. But hey, that's a good start. I will probably build a tail cowling first and see how I go, do some learning and then try a tank.

Thanks again,



Kym

look up some Ron Covell videos

this guy's the boss

kym
what kind of shaping equipment to
you have?
are you planing on building a buck to work
off of?
Ron Corvell is awesome.
Lazze Metal shaping is another good look.
craig

A domestic source for body tools and ideas to make your own.

http://www.handbuilt.net.au/handtools.html

and for ideas and tips.

https://www.tinmantech.com/

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/index2.htm

Thanks Kiwi - very helpful!

Craig, at this stage I will either make a buck, or perhaps even make a fuel cell and use the original tank 'skin' over the top of it. Although that feels like cheating.

The latter method actually has lots of advantages - it's easier, and lets me simplify design, reduce overall tank capacity, and make space for re-positioning things like coils and various other electrics.

Does anyone else smell a fire hazard?


Kym

kym
its not cheating if it makes the job easier
or better.
craig

motox wrote:kym
its not cheating if it makes the job easier
or better.
craig

"I like the way you think!"



Kym

i'm onto my third tank, bought 1200-0 from Ullrich Aluminium in Melbourne.I see they have an Adelaide office in Pooraka.
Do yourself a favour, and buy a copy of The Racing Motorcycle,volume 3 by John Bradley.Has a whole chapter on alloy tanks.

Kym, this is interesting.

http://46works.net/post/135177024829/ktm-rc8-project

Thanks Beeza...you mean there's a bike book I don't have?

I'll get right onto it! I'm dealing with Capral Aluminium right now and they seem pretty good. I guess we'll see. Didn't have as much luck with the other guys, service just a bit iffy.

Kiwi...thanks so much. I can't tell you how hard I was stabbing at the 'bookmark' button, closely followed by the 'translate' button. That is such a helpful link, thank you, I really appreciate it.

You guys are the best!



Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:

exnailpounder wrote:I have watched the biker build-off shows but they always used steel for fabbing, aluminum should be interesting.

Yeah, steel doesn't really appeal to me at all. Besides, I want a natural aluminium finish.

I don't imagine it will be easy and there's every chance that the first attempt will be an ugly, leaking disaster, but I'm going to give it a shot and just like Edison, quite possibly find a thousand ways how not to do it before finally getting it right.

(Though hopefully mine won't turn out to be light bulb shaped.)

Cheers,


Kym

Edison was a salesman and a thief. Do it like Nikola.

MosquitoMoto wrote: ....or perhaps even make a fuel cell and use the original tank 'skin' over the top of it. Although that feels like cheating.

Kym

Now where's the fun in that!

Besides, this is all about shedding the kg's, not adding them.

BTW, I'm thinking a thickness anywhere from 2mm to .090" would be good. Good luck!

dunkster wrote:

MosquitoMoto wrote: ....or perhaps even make a fuel cell and use the original tank 'skin' over the top of it. Although that feels like cheating.

Kym

Now where's the fun in that!

Besides, this is all about shedding the kg's, not adding them.

BTW, I'm thinking a thickness anywhere from 2mm to .090" would be good. Good luck!

Thanks dunkster!

I'll need all the luck I can get. I'm thinking this first 'learning curve' attempt has plenty of potential to turn out a bit of a mess. Unusually for me, this one isn't a race bike, it's a 'no risk' basket case street bike. One of those bikes that really doesn't matter at all, so I'm using it as my test mule for fabrication, frame alteration, and yeah, building a fuel tank.

I priced up a big ol' sheet of 2mm today, so after a brief week on holiday in sunny Queensland net week, I'll be ready to rip into it.



Kym

kym
if you are planning to doing much of
this kind of work and do not have access
to a jump shear, this is a great tool to have
i use this all the time.
http://makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/To ... ame=JS1600
craig

motox wrote:kym
if you are planning to doing much of
this kind of work and do not have access
to a jump shear, this is a great tool to have
i use this all the time.
http://makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/To ... ame=JS1600
craig

Thanks Craig.

I'm just using my band saws at the moment. Okay-ish result but yeah, cleaner edges would always be nice....


Kym