Welding Tips and Tricks

What is everyone getting gas for? Lws here in n. Alabama (or as we call it this time of year, Hell), pricing out at $85 for 20cf bottle (full and you own it) and about $15 for refill/exchange (you still own it).


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I paid $40, including 8% CA sales tax, for swapping a 125cf bottle of argon. Location was Praxair in Santa Maria, CA.

Dave

$65 for 250 cuft, Carrollton, GA. Was $56 last winter.

I just exchanged my 40 cu ft argon for $22 at Rainier Welding Supplies here in Lakewood Wa

I just picked up my 1st bottle or argon 80cf, i had to pay for the bottle so it was a bit pricey I will find out how much it is to refill/exchange.

The larger your bottle, the more economical your gas becomes... There's a fee just to hook to your bottle (and if they're doing it right they evacuate it first), then the per cubic foot price. The price per cu ft. varies by your proximity to the source (and demand in your market, of course).

If you weld for a living, you can often get a deal through your employer's vendor. They will often do favors for employees of their regular clients, since you're already on their route.

Steve S

$70 for a 300cf bottle in Kankakee Ill. from the small independent LWS I use. I drive by 2 AirGas stores to get there. Don't know what AG is charging these days but I used to fill a 125cf with them and it was about $45. F AirGas!

Any of you guys get inconsistent fills? I know the old boss always got 2200 psi on his 300 cuft bottles. My first two bottles were 1800psi and the last was 2000 psi. I've read that I should be getting at least 2250. What's the real deal?

RamboBaby wrote:Any of you guys get inconsistent fills? I know the old boss always got 2200 psi on his 300 cuft bottles. My first two bottles were 1800psi and the last was 2000 psi. I've read that I should be getting at least 2250. What's the real deal?

The bottles heat up when they are filling them which raises the volume, until they cool off and you get a short fill. If you ever watch SCUBA shops fill bottles, they fill them in a water tank to keep the heat down and supposedly absorb the energy if a bottle ruptures while being filled. Big welding gas suppliers aren't going to fill bottles in a water tank nor are they going to fill them slow enough to keep the heat down. My lws is pretty good but I had a problem with moisture coming out of them below 300psi and I bitched about it and got a free fill. They are supposed to follow certain filling procedures but all that usually goes out the window when they have some dis-interested kid filling and handling bottles all day and his boss is cracking the whip.

I think I'm gonna tell em that I want to see the pressure before they load it on the truck from now on. I didn't even realize before today that they were filling them there. I thought it was just an exchange for them like it is for me. I was wondering if they were syphoning some off for their own uses.

The water thing is a common trick used for refrigerants. I do a lot of that kind of work so temp is a major factor when working with transferring gases.

RamboBaby wrote:I think I'm gonna tell em that I want to see the pressure before they load it on the truck from now on. I didn't even realize before today that they were filling them there. I thought it was just an exchange for them like it is for me. I was wondering if they were syphoning some off for their own uses.

There are three large welding supply dealers in Santa Maria, CA. I know that AirGas sends the bottles they get to their larger facility in San Luis Obispo. I'm pretty sure Praxair fills them on site in SM. I don't have clue what the Matheson folks do with their tanks.

Dave

I've been dealing with O2 Plus in Carolton GA. I'll just get them to show me the pressure on the bottle. I think it's just an exchange there and not a fill on the spot because it happens so quick. I've never walked into the warehouse at that particular location.

$38 for 250 from Praxair. They charge the same for 3 sticks of tungsten as what Airgas charges for two. Also, their other consumables are notably cheaper as well. My employer bought 4 owner bottles but they only come in 250, which is a pita with the amount of welding we do. Airgas was having difficulties with their drivers taking back the MT's and we ended up with like 8 on site, and their math getting all wonky with rental fees.

Also, as large as Airgas is, you would think they would have sufficient inventory but it was trickled as needed from corporate and they were out of stock as much as they were in. Just another symptom of salesmen and the service sector running industry, instead of tradesmen.

You guys are making me cry.

Argon is as cheap as water in the states! Here, my little 60 size bottle costs over $100 to swap.


Kym

The biggest tank weld specialties will let you own is 150, it costs me $47 to fill. Otherwise I believe it's $85 a year to lease a larger bottle.

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Not sure what it relates to in the US, but I got a price yesterday for a Size D bottle, (10L) the smallest, $147, inc one years rental.

Tokoroa_Welder wrote:Not sure what it relates to in the US, but I got a price yesterday for a Size D bottle, (10L) the smallest, $147, inc one years rental.

I have a little 'D' size bottle, from memory they hold 1.7 cubic metres/60 cubic feet. I own my bottle. It's so small that if I use it as my main supply I burn it up in next to no time, so I just use it as my purge bottle - I don't do a lot of stainless work.



Kym

Guys,
As to inconsistent fills, there are quite a few variables that come into play here. First off any cylinder under a 336 cf can only be filled 2015 @ 70*F and a 336 can be filled to 2400 @ 70*F. There are cylinders that can be 10% overfilled, but you can only pump up to the limit of the allowable limit of lowest cylinder attached to the manifold so if you get 2400# you are doing as good as you will get. You'll be more likely to get around 2015# @ 70*F. If it's above that temperature outside, you'll read higher and if it's below that outside you'll read lower.

Len

Last cylinder fill. just a smidge under ~2500psi. Checked with two different regulators as well. $28. This is a "125 ft³" tank. More like 150 ft³

Interesting..

Overhere most cylinders are filled at 200 bar (2900 psi) and they are usually spot-on when you get them pressure-wise.

But we do tend to run an 'exchange' system where you don't get your own bottle refilled 'onsite', but use a system where you pay a one-time fee for a bottle and afterwards return an empty one and get a new/filled one where you just pay for the 'fill'. They are (re)filled at central sites.

Newer cylinders are nog getting popular that are designed for 300 bar (4300 psi) fills that can pack the same amount of gas in a smaller size and tends to result in being able to use a more portable cylinder in some situations.

Bye, Arno.

Paid $40 a piece for 2, 300cf tanks today from Matheson.

Got hold of an old helium tank from work no one had a clue about and took it to lws. $75 for recert, new cap, and 336 at 1900-2500psi (if the tank recerts, if not only out 25 for the testing...but if it does WOOT)


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ScottFc3s wrote:Paid $40 a piece for 2, 300cf tanks today from Matheson.

Matheson was always my go-to place before they closed up shop locally. Thankfully my new LWS is also a steel supplier/hardware store all-in-one. They're freakin awesome. My most expensive swap is $35 for a 75 cuft of acetylene; all other 125 cuft cylinders are even less.