Welding Tips and Tricks

hello there!
i am going to get a tig welder (everlast powertig 250ex) and i was planning on getting a CK worldwide torch, so my question is, what size lens/cup/torch should i get(planning on using a gas lens for 99% of my applications)? my school uses a #10, but i wanted to hear different opinions as there are many different opinions on what torch to get. and what tungsten to get?

the applications at school will most often be welding test plates like this one: http://imgur.com/PXdNkDZ

3/8" gap, 1side beveled, if that matters. we will be doing stainless,aluminum and carbon steel (incase that changes the cup preference and tungsten choice)


i was thinking of getting one of the "tig bundles" but im debating if they got the proper cups or sizes,not to mention theyre for the "big torches" which i dont think i would be fond of. but i just want to get the best suited one for my apaplication. (not too familiar with cups, but it seems the aluminum ones are very common and cheap to replace in comparison to Pyrex, and, does the cup have a max amperage rating? i know for a fact the torch does, but not too sure about the torch.

edit: ideally the torch would be rated 150or so amps air cooled torch that is a small torch over a huge one.

thank you for your time

regards
Noah

Hey there Noah.

My Tig rig arrived with a massive size 26 torch. The torch size was the one thing I hadn't researched enough prior to purchase. The big 'Euro' size 26, with heavy cables, was just plain difficult to manipulate while I was learning.

Today I normally weld to an upper limit of 150-160 amps or so.

I initially ordered a little size 9 air cooled torch with gas lens and lightweight cables. What a revelation! But it heats up pretty fast near its amp limit which is just over 100. So nowadays my 'go to' torch is a plain, tube handle size 17 air cooled with stubby gas lens head and lightweight cables. It heats up, too, but nowhere near as quickly as the size 9, and it's still a compact, agile piece of kit.

I'll go with a Tig cooler and a little size 20 water cooled torch one day, but for now this compact, air cooled stuff serves me well.

Hope this helps.



Kym

I added a ck 20 to my purchase of my 250ex, and I haven't even used the one that came with the machine. I might someday, but the ck 20 is the best torch I have used. Water cooler is well worth the money to me.
I got the stubby gas lens kit from Jody, and it does almost everything I need, I may add 1 bigger cup if I need it.

MosquitoMoto wrote: Today I normally weld to an upper limit of 150-160 amps or so.

So nowadays my 'go to' torch is a plain, tube handle size 17 air cooled with stubby gas lens head and lightweight cables. It heats up, too, but nowhere near as quickly as the size 9, and it's still a compact, agile piece of kit.

Hope this helps.



Kym

this actually does help alot! i was looking at the 17 "tig kit" on weldmonger, but my only question is, after how long of use does it start to get uncomfortably warm?

thank you for your help,

noah

thespian wrote: it does almost everything I need, I may add 1 bigger cup if I need it.

forgive me for the possible stupid question, but still learnin here , so is the cup size matched to the collet? and do you need a different collet 3/32 and 1/8 tungsten?, because i know the cup screws into the collet, and collet into the torch, so does that mean if you need a bigger cup, to just make sure it fits the appropriate collet? (or in this case, gas lens). correct me by all means if i am wrong.

thanks again for the tips,

noah

A wide variety of cup sizes will fit a given gas lens or collet body.

You will need different collets and collet bodies/gas lenses for different tungsten sizes.

A difference to note, the 9/20 series torches have different threads and head lengths than 17/26 torches, so the gas lenses, collet bodies, and collets are not interchangeable.

You can get large gas lenses and gaskets that will fit the small torches, enabling you to use larger cups, so I find the small torches to be more versatile.

My #9 air cooled torch sees little use these days, but I can use it near 150A for ten minutes continuous before it's too hot.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote: My #9 air cooled torch sees little use these days, but I can use it near 150A for ten minutes continuous before it's too hot.

Steve S

so would you reccomend getting a 17 style torch from CK along with the gas lens tig bundle from the store that also has the 2 tig fingers? (the big bundle) since it fits the 17 style torch, and as you mentioned its watercooled counterpart the 26 torch


thanks

Noah

I actually like my #9. I prefer the small torches. The main reason it sees little use is because I weld almost exclusively at work, where we have water-cooled -20 torches.

I learned on a -17 torch, and they work well. They don't heat up as fast, but they are bulkier and heavier with a heavier lead.

You will need to decide which is more important to you; A longer on time, or a lighter torch. Since you're planning school, I'd suggest using the size you'll be using in class so your practice is consistent.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote: You will need to decide which is more important to you; A longer on time, or a lighter torch. Since you're planning school, I'd suggest using the size you'll be using in class so your practice is consistent.

Steve S

i beleive my teacher said we would use the #10 torch at school which now that i am talking about it, might of meant the cup, but it might be the torch, if its the case that it IS the torch, do you think its a good one? because i agree with you that the #9 does sound better since you say its more maneuverable, because i dont mind taking a few minutes of break in order for the torch to cool.

not to mention we got about 8+months till we start tig

-noah

Least honorable wrote:

MosquitoMoto wrote: Today I normally weld to an upper limit of 150-160 amps or so.

So nowadays my 'go to' torch is a plain, tube handle size 17 air cooled with stubby gas lens head and lightweight cables. It heats up, too, but nowhere near as quickly as the size 9, and it's still a compact, agile piece of kit.

Hope this helps.



Kym

this actually does help alot! i was looking at the 17 "tig kit" on weldmonger, but my only question is, after how long of use does it start to get uncomfortably warm?

thank you for your help,

noah

Hey there. If I am welding aluminium on AC at 120+ amps and running long beads, it heats up pretty quickly. Happily, I don't do a lot of high amp, sustained aluminium welding, more thinner stuff.

On DC it tends to take a little longer to heat up.

I cheat now and then and use an Ove glove on my torch hand if I am running hot for long. I certainly wouldn't take this as a safety recommendation though, it's just a stop gap measure I use.

Also, as I think someone has mentioned, the stubby gas lens hardware you invest in for a size 17 torch will also fit the big size 26 torch it it is ever called for.




Kym

Big Euro-style #26 air cooled torch alongside #17 with stubby gas lens kit.



And here is the #17 torch with gas lens alongside #9 with gas lens and torch switch.


Here's a couple shots for size comparison. The #26 torch is like a bloody claw hammer. The #17 with gas lens isn't that much bigger than the little #9. To use, the #9 is my favourite by far.

The lightweight cables make a huge difference. Look at the thickness of the cable bundle at the end of the #26 torch in the top photo - those things are like a garden hose! Thick, heavy and inflexible.



Kym

If I where to get a #9, would I just get the gas lens and stubby cup from a local welding store? Or you guys got any experience with trusted sellers on eBay or amazon? Or any online seller

And you say the #17 is just a lil bulkier that #9, but is it worth the extra amperage for small lack of mobility, or like you said still go with #9?

Least honorable wrote:If I where to get a #9, would I just get the gas lens and stubby cup from a local welding store? Or you guys got any experience with trusted sellers on eBay or amazon? Or any online seller

And you say the #17 is just a lil bulkier that #9, but is it worth the extra amperage for small lack of mobility, or like you said still go with #9?

Where I am in Australia my local welding suppliers don't have a great stock of anything that they consider out-of-the-ordinary. And it seems that they consider most things out-of-the-ordinary!

I buy gas lenses, collets, tungstens, cups and torch bodies mostly online, often eBay. I've really not had any bad experiences, other than one batch of no-name tungstens that were pretty iffy. As a hobbyist, most of the parts I find online are easily good enough quality for my purposes.

Although choice of torches is very subjective and always affected by what you are welding, your style, even the size of your hands, my #17 torch is now my first choice for most jobs. Unless I am welding small, cramped, intricate pieces where access and mobility are of utmost importance and where the #9 has a slight advantage, the #17 with a stubby kit will just about always do what I need. If I was painted into a corner and had to limit myself to just one torch, this would be it for me.

My 2 cents.



Kym

The scratch tart rig I use primarily on my truck for work is a flex head 17. I keep a 9 and an extra 17 on hand all the time. I'm with Kim the 17 flex is a good compromise between size and amp rating.

Just a heads-up: i'm pretty sure everlast now carries CK torches. If you go through Everlast to buy the 250ex you can likely bundle a torch into your purchase, and know that dinse connectors will fit properly, etc.

Poland308 wrote:The scratch tart rig I use primarily on my truck for work is a flex head 17. I keep a 9 and an extra 17 on hand all the time. I'm with Kim the 17 flex is a good compromise between size and amp rating.

Yes! I forgot to mention 'flex head!' I have a heap of old rigid heads in my gear box that simply never get used nowadays. Virtually every time I weld I find myself tweaking the head angle a little on my #17. So useful.




Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:

Poland308 wrote:The scratch tart rig I use primarily on my truck for work is a flex head 17. I keep a 9 and an extra 17 on hand all the time. I'm with Kim the 17 flex is a good compromise between size and amp rating.

Yes! I forgot to mention 'flex head!' I have a heap of old rigid heads in my gear box that simply never get used nowadays. Virtually every time I weld I find myself tweaking the head angle a little on my #17. So useful.




Kym

Yeah! i was thinking of actually getting the ck flexlock 150, any thoughts?

Least honorable wrote:

MosquitoMoto wrote:

Poland308 wrote:The scratch tart rig I use primarily on my truck for work is a flex head 17. I keep a 9 and an extra 17 on hand all the time. I'm with Kim the 17 flex is a good compromise between size and amp rating.

Yes! I forgot to mention 'flex head!' I have a heap of old rigid heads in my gear box that simply never get used nowadays. Virtually every time I weld I find myself tweaking the head angle a little on my #17. So useful.




Kym

Yeah! i was thinking of actually getting the ck flexlock 150, any thoughts?

Have never heard a single bad thing about that torch, but haven't used one myself. A bit beyond my budget at the moment, too. I'll keep it in that mental wish list that includes water cooled torches, welding positioners and Furick Fupa #12 gas lenses...lovely stuff, but can't be justified for me at hobbyist level.

But through my own experience with the plain ol' generic 'bendy head' torches as opposed to the standard, rigid head variety, I can certainly recommend the bendy ones. Sometimes just that extra degree or two of angle can make all the difference.



Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:

Have never heard a single bad thing about that torch, but haven't used one myself. A bit beyond my budget at the moment, too. I'll keep it in that mental wish list that includes water cooled torches, welding positioners and Furick Fupa #12 gas lenses...lovely stuff, but can't be justified for me at hobbyist level.

But through my own experience with the plain ol' generic 'bendy head' torches as opposed to the standard, rigid head variety, I can certainly recommend the bendy ones. Sometimes just that extra degree or two of angle can make all the difference.



Kym

damn just realized its a watercool torch, thats an extra 300-500$ for a water cooler.

You can make your own water cooler (search this forum) or, depending on what you are welding, maybe you just don't need one.

I will build one for myself eventually just for fun, but the fact is I really don't need one. I don't do production work or long AC beads at 180 amps, my stuff is mostly creating smallish parts, so overheating is seldom an issue.

I know I'm gonna love it when I can be using a tiny size 20 water cooled torch for everything, but for now it's really not a 'need', more just a want that I will satisfy when time permits. I have to try not to get too carried away with buying welding gear....


Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:You can make your own water cooler (search this forum) or, depending on what you are welding, maybe you just don't need one.

I will build one for myself eventually just for fun, but the fact is I really don't need one. I don't do production work or long AC beads at 180 amps, my stuff is mostly creating smallish parts, so overheating is seldom an issue.

I know I'm gonna love it when I can be using a tiny size 20 water cooled torch for everything, but for now it's really not a 'need', more just a want that I will satisfy when time permits. I have to try not to get too carried away with buying welding gear....


Kym

just realized that im an idiot and was looking at the 230 flex loc which IS watercooled, but i meant to talk about the 150 flexloc which isnt watercooled, and seems to have many ajustable heads on it, downside is the 150 amp limit,

you said you heard nothing bad about the flexloc, did you hear anything bad about the flexible torch (not the loc one) because to me the flexloc seems like a better deal if you can just swap out the tip of the torch to whatever you want, though it still keeps its 150 amp limit, and any higher amp limit that that you get into the heavier torches that weigh about 8 oz

oddly enough the trimline series has 200 amp limit with 7 oz only, might look into getting that one instead, the 50 amp will probably end up coming in handy, if not today, then tomorrow

Not that I am any expert, but I have heard that if you constantly bend a flex head, eventually it will break.

Seems to make sense to me, but I don't really care too much because I have always considered a 'basic' torch head - let's say, rigid or flexible - as a consumable item. Online you can pick them up from $10 for the Chinese generic stuff to $50 or so for the entry level brand name stuff.

I'm yet to wreck a torch head myself, although my trust #17 flex head is certainly looking well-used nowadays.


Kym

yeah, ill call CK tommorow along with everlast, to ask CK if they got addapters that connect to both the easy connect and the wrench like connect (sorry, dont know their proper names). but as of now, i think ill settle on the 200 amp trim line 26 torch, its about 8 oz, but with the stubby tig hardware from weldmonger i think it will be good with the #6 cup. and after alot of practice, i might be able to get a side job here and there, so the more amp it can take the better. care to add your 2 cents kym? thanks again

regards

noah

Hey Noah.

Just in case you haven't seen it yet, here is Jody's video where he compares torches and sizing. He specifically mentions the #26 Trimline in here somewhere. A long video but worth a look - Jody is a guru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lplipcJ5cyc

Again, don't forget cable/hose sizes/weights and the effect that they have on the weight and agility of the torch. A compact torch will still not feel featherweight if you run heavy cables.

Ages ago I bought a basic tube handle to replace the bulky 'Euro' handle on my #26 torch but I'm yet to use it, because my #17 with stubby gas lens does most things I need and I can push it up above 150 amps now and then for brief bursts if need be. I just don't do a lot of welding over 150 amps.

As for side jobs, I've been doing them here and there almost since I started Tig welding. Seems the moment you can weld aluminium, everyone is your new best friend! I'm just always careful only to take on non-critical jobs, where if one of my welds fails, no-one is going to get hurt.

Have fun!



Kym

MosquitoMoto wrote:Hey Noah.

Just in case you haven't seen it yet, here is Jody's video where he compares torches and sizing. He specifically mentions the #26 Trimline in here somewhere. A long video but worth a look - Jody is a guru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lplipcJ5cyc

Again, don't forget cable/hose sizes/weights and the effect that they have on the weight and agility of the torch. A compact torch will still not feel featherweight if you run heavy cables.

Ages ago I bought a basic tube handle to replace the bulky 'Euro' handle on my #26 torch but I'm yet to use it, because my #17 with stubby gas lens does most things I need and I can push it up above 150 amps now and then for brief bursts if need be. I just don't do a lot of welding over 150 amps.

As for side jobs, I've been doing them here and there almost since I started Tig welding. Seems the moment you can weld aluminium, everyone is your new best friend! I'm just always careful only to take on non-critical jobs, where if one of my welds fails, no-one is going to get hurt.

Have fun!



Kym

i watched that video 3x, never realized he mention the 26.... thanks for bringing it back up, he said 26 is fairly large and can be uncomfortable, and 9 is too small for me as in my class we will hit about 140-150 amps, so in that case, the flexloc, or the 17flexhead would be a good idea? after that id imagine (About 1 1/2 year later) i would invest in a watercooler w/ a #9) but yeah, out of the flexloc 150 and the 17 flexhead which do you reccomend? or i guess my question is if i get the flexloc 150, does it count as a "style 17" in the case that it will fit the weldmonger tig package for 99$ for 17 and 26? im aware that its interchangeable tip.

thanks again

noah