Welding Tips and Tricks

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301367002996 ... EBIDX%3AIT

Time for me to once again showcase my trademark optimistically naive nature.

I don't really need a Tig water cooler (hobbyist only) but I'd like to build one just for fun and practise. However I constantly see the benchmark Procon pumps on sale for proper money - the sort of money that, with a few extra parts added to make the rest of the cooler, quickly adds up to almost as much as I could buy a new cooler for locally.

So how's this one? The pro's are:

* Cheap

* Built for continuous use

* Brass impeller, cast body.

Cons:

* Cheap...

* Max flow is 35 litres per minute.

So even if the flow it achieves is really only 25 litres per minute, that's about 25 litres/min more than needed. But I could tee into the outlet, run a ball valve setup and just dump excess straight back into the main tank...or could I? This is very likely not a true high pressure pump built to handle flow restrictions and that's where I imagine it might fall down, but I'd love to see some thoughts on this.

Feel free to slap me - everyone does!


Kym

I don't remember all the details, but there was someone who tried to build a TIG cooler using a pump from Harbor Freight that looked nearly identical to that one.

I seem to remember that it didn't like developing much pressure, and was obscenely excessive in the flow department, as you noted.

One issue with excess flow going back to the tank is that it heats the water every time it pumps it, even if only a little bit. Pumping it constantly, and dumping 90% back in the tank might be warming the water more than the torch does, though I'm not at all certain on that.

I would go and look on YouTube, and maybe google for DIY TIG cooler? I remember seeing it done, and then removed from service in short order, or possibly never actually plumbed in.

edit:
Found at least one build using a lookalike pump, but no conclusion in this thread: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?41 ... er-project
They were discussing the question of pressure possibly not being high enough, but no final results to prove or disprove the usability.

Thanks HA.

Funny, online it seems you'll find that the serious guys are all using Procon pumps (fair enough...) but there is also a fair number of other guys who claim to have run for ages with cobbled together rigs using an assortment of seemingly ill-suited pumps, even submersible pond pumps in buckets of water!

I can absolutely see how you'd want to go Procon if you were welding 150 amps + AC all day long, just curious to see what might work for hobbyists who only occasionally put in big welding sessions and just want a small torch that always stays cool.


Kym

35 meter head means max pressure is 3,5 bar and the flow will be nearly zero.

I doubt you will get much flow thru a 20 torch with that one unfortunately.

My main reason for grabbing a Procon pump was not wanting to potentially melt down a ~$180 torch or the hoses for it, if the pump decided to pack it up and call it day.

I suspect that most would say that we hobby welders should stick to the air cooled end of the spectrum, but where's the fun in playing by the common sense rules?

As to the pricing on the Procon pumps and motors, I found another option, in a salvage and rebuilding shop down in LosAngeles, CA.

Depending on how rapacious the shipping and import taxes are to cross the pond, you might come out ahead just buying a pump and motor from over here.
They list 220V motors and pumps, with the pumps starting at $45 USD and the motors at $50, but might make a deal on the pair together? Who knows, I just found them on Craigslist.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bf ... 09830.html

Another option that you could explore is the restaurant supply companies 'near' you. They may not stock Procon branded pumps in the soda carbonation systems there, but likely there is an equivalent product that should be relatively easy to acquire due to being used across the country, rather than an imported pump from the USA?

If nothing else, finding a supply and service company there would cut down on shipping/tax costs, and you might just get the chance to rummage the junk pile and salvage some stainless that isn't serviceable for the food industry, but perfectly fine for hobby/track/tool/garage fabrication projects...

Nice find HA, cheers.

However my experience with shipping (I've bought everything from the U.S from Power Commanders to race bike wheels) is that shipping cost on those would be crippling. Doesn't help that the Oz dollar is about as valuable as pocket lint right now.


Kym

I hear you all to well on the shipping costs. I've had a few items shipped in from Europe, and even the smallest things can end up expensive after shipping costs come into play.

I had a pump motor shipped cross-country, and only the flat-rate mailing boxes made that cost effective, and I just now looked to see what the USPS would charge for the same box to AU, and it went from $18 domestic to $87, assuming that it's under 20 pounds. If it goes over the 20 pound mark, the price soars up into the $250 range.

All the more reason to see what might be available from the local restaurant supply and service companies!

hey_allen wrote:I hear you all to well on the shipping costs. I've had a few items shipped in from Europe, and even the smallest things can end up expensive after shipping costs come into play.

I had a pump motor shipped cross-country, and only the flat-rate mailing boxes made that cost effective, and I just now looked to see what the USPS would charge for the same box to AU, and it went from $18 domestic to $87, assuming that it's under 20 pounds. If it goes over the 20 pound mark, the price soars up into the $250 range.

All the more reason to see what might be available from the local restaurant supply and service companies!

Yep.

Like I said, I'm just a hobbyist, so none of this is urgent, I'll just slow down. I'm a fairly patient scrounger, so I think I'll just set aside a box marked 'Tig cooler parts' in my shed and slowly fill it as I find stuff. Part of the fun is seeing just how little cash it can be built for, after all!


Kym

Have you asked your local Standex reps in Melbourne?

Cant copy links but check locations at proconpumps.com

A pro con pump is a positive displacement pump designed for lots of run hours. The pump you posted a picture of is a cycntrifical pump. Theses to pumps a designed for use in specific applications. The cycntrifical pump with an impeller is designed to move lots of volume but against only a little resistance. Due to the characteristics of how a pump like that needs to be run it will likely give you lots of problems. This is one of those occasions were you will wish you had spent the extra money. You may be able to find another brand of pump or a less durable model that will save you some $ in the short run. Look for a positive displacement pump like a gear pump or a cam pump.

Poland308 wrote:A pro con pump is a positive displacement pump designed for lots of run hours. The pump you posted a picture of is a cycntrifical pump. Theses to pumps a designed for use in specific applications. The cycntrifical pump with an impeller is designed to move lots of volume but against only a little resistance. Due to the characteristics of how a pump like that needs to be run it will likely give you lots of problems. This is one of those occasions were you will wish you had spent the extra money. You may be able to find another brand of pump or a less durable model that will save you some $ in the short run. Look for a positive displacement pump like a gear pump or a cam pump.

Got it - I think it's Procon or nothing.

I'll just bide my time and eventually I'll find one for the right price (Anders, I'll try Standex...). Meanwhile I'll slowly gather together the other various bits and pieces.

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom, everyone!


Kym

what's wrong with this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PROCON-CARBO ... SwHPlWcG4R

or This: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CORNELIUS-IN ... SwlV9WSiPM

Louie1961 wrote:what's wrong with this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PROCON-CARBO ... SwHPlWcG4R

or This: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CORNELIUS-IN ... SwlV9WSiPM

Top one looks good, thanks Louie.

Shipping to Oz would be murder on the second one. Will see if I can grab the first one via Com Gateway.


Kym

Fwiw- my scratch start setup, Lincoln tombstone with a Miller HF box has a water cooled setup, hooks up to the hose bib and I have a return line that runs right back to the drain. Been like that for at least 20 years...never an issue

Mo, have you looked at pressure pumps for agricultural spray units?

Hello all from Finland!
Let me give you a short introduction of myself... I'm just a hobby welder as I get my income from different source (automation). I have a MAG welder, stick and the newest one, TIG with plasma. TIG torch which came with the machine was huge air cooled 26 series torch.
I happened to have a used MSD high pressure fuel pump, so I decided to build cheap water cooling setup with 20 series torch. The pump has been working great. I use it with Valvoline long life car antifreeze with distilled water.

Peltsu69 wrote:Hello all from Finland!
Let me give you a short introduction of myself... I'm just a hobby welder as I get my income from different source (automation). I have a MAG welder, stick and the newest one, TIG with plasma. TIG torch which came with the machine was huge air cooled 26 series torch.
I happened to have a used MSD high pressure fuel pump, so I decided to build cheap water cooling setup with 20 series torch. The pump has been working great. I use it with Valvoline long life car antifreeze with distilled water.

Thanks for the tip Peltsu!

Harry...I'll do some Googling of those Ag pumps, too. Cheers!


Kym

I'm going to go with this pump next, since I don't like the high load of my shurflo (however it still works fine):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-pump-fo ... 1330933271

Best regards,

Alexis

Good tip Alexis - and I love your latest cooler build, it really is something special.

Meanwhile the good news is that I think a fellow WT&T member here in Australia might have solved my Procon pump problem for me. There are some very good people on this forum!



Kym

Has anyone ever tried hacking a computer water cooler?

Dexter12353 wrote:Has anyone ever tried hacking a computer water cooler?

No but where would you find one? Flow rate, operating pressure?

Oh yea, Welcome to the forum Dexter!

Dexter12353 wrote:Has anyone ever tried hacking a computer water cooler?

Hello!

I tried my Eheim 1048 pump with 8 meter tig setup and the pump output was pretty poor.
I had previously used the pump succesfully with CPU block and automotive oil cooler, but on the tig torch it wasn't enough.

But like I posted earlier, I am currently using high pressure fuel pump with my tig. It's a roller vane type of pump and you can find used fuel pumps pretty cheaply from scrap yards. (just make sure it's a correct type)

Peltsu69 wrote:

Dexter12353 wrote:Has anyone ever tried hacking a computer water cooler?

Hello!

I tried my Eheim 1048 pump with 8 meter tig setup and the pump output was pretty poor.
I had previously used the pump succesfully with CPU block and automotive oil cooler, but on the tig torch it wasn't enough.

But like I posted earlier, I am currently using high pressure fuel pump with my tig. It's a roller vane type of pump and you can find used fuel pumps pretty cheaply from scrap yards. (just make sure it's a correct type)

Thanks for the tip, Peltsu. However, meanwhile a forum member here in Australia has kindly secured a Procon pump for me at a great price. So some time in 2016 I will be building a rig. Expect swearing, sparks and a few leaks...



Kym

A friend of mine built a custom water cooler for his 250amp Everlast inverter.
I'll be at his house tomorrow and I'll get you some pics.

I look forward to seeing detail shots of that one - it sure looks like a different take on things.

I like different.



Kym