Welding Tips and Tricks

Had a search but couldn't find anything specific to this.

I know there's such a thing as a 'bad bottle of gas', but just wondering if there's such a thing as a bad batch of tungsten electrodes. My welding machine was delivered ready to go, complete with a selection of tungsten electrodes - zirconiated and Thoriated. However, as a card carrying disciple of Jody and also someone who enjoys an uncomplicated life, I immediately ordered some 2% Lanthanated tungstens online from a local seller.

They work fine on aluminium but they are rubbish on DC mild steel. On similar settings to what I use with Thoriated and with the same grind, the arc is weaker and tends to wander. I experimented with more and less amps, same result - just inferior to the arc I get with Thoriated. Not a bit inferior, a lot; to the point where I took out the Lanthanated tungsten, slipped a Thoriated back in and was instantly happy.

The Lanthanated tungstens I purchased were no particular brand. Is there such a thing as 'bad quality' electrodes? Should I buy name brand stuff?

Help me, Obi Weld Kenobis...you're my only hope!



Kym

I would suppose it's possible, just like anything else in the world that's manufactured in mass quantities things slip through quality control and in some respects their is zero quality control. So I would say if the thoriated tungstens work on steel roll with it but I would try the others on some other types of metals like maybe stainless pieces ECT and see what happens.

Kym,
Few questions. Are you using the same piece of tungsten and getting bad results or is this happening with all your Lanthanated? Are you using HF start or are you using lift arc? A fresh grind on the tungsten? Ground clamp in the positive port of the machine? Foot pedal or torch switch 2T/4T? How do you cut (not grind) your tungsten?

Yes, there is a chance to get junk tungsten and I have and it usually ended up being linear cracks in the sticks that caused all manner of crazy arcs. The worst part was this was from a name brand company.

Answer some of these questions and we'll see what gives.

Len

Braehill wrote:Kym,
Few questions. Are you using the same piece of tungsten and getting bad results or is this happening with all your Lanthanated? Are you using HF start or are you using lift arc? A fresh grind on the tungsten? Ground clamp in the positive port of the machine? Foot pedal or torch switch 2T/4T? How do you cut (not grind) your tungsten?

Yes, there is a chance to get junk tungsten and I have and it usually ended up being linear cracks in the sticks that caused all manner of crazy arcs. The worst part was this was from a name brand company.

Answer some of these questions and we'll see what gives.

Len

Good line of enquiry as always Len, thanks for being so helpful.

It's happening with all the Lanthanated tungstens in this batch. HF start, grind is sharp, fresh and 'Jody spec' textbook. Yes, ground clamp is right where it should be. Using foot pedal.

I seldom need to cut tungstens but if I really mess one up (happening less and less now) I chop off the tip with a fresh 'slice wheel' on my angle grinder. But I've new ruined a Lanthanated electrode badly enough to need to do this.

Thanks again.

Kym

Kym,
What size, and are they the same size? Is this happening at very low amperage, say 20 amps and under? Is the arc unstable even at higher amperage, say 80 amps and up? I've had some 1.5% Lanth. that didn't like low amperage but welded fine on it's upper limits, opposite of what you'd expect.

Sometimes if there's a linear crack you can swap ends and it will weld fine but this doesn't seem like a crack in your case.

I mostly use an older transformer welder and it definitely likes Thoriated better than Lanthanated and I've used Thoriated to weld Aluminum for years before I knew that was a no-no with a transformer. I'm not real familiar with the inverter welders quirks, what they like and don't like, as they're pretty new to me.

Len

Kym
One place where you can get into trouble, is if you've accidentally dipped the electrode and then ground it to clean it up. The impurities from the dip (e.g. aluminum) can get lodged into the grinding wheel, and it's possible to inadvertently contaminate the new tungsten as you grind it.
Trev

Hey Len, hey Trev.

Len, Lanth electrodes are 2% and size is 1.6mm. Amps are 40 and up. 40 works fine with thoriated, but I tried cranking amps higher than this for the lanthanated to maybe strengthen and focus the arc but it's still comparatively weak and wanders.

Trev, good point re; grinding but haven't dipped these yet, just struggling to make them perform. I think next step will be to buy some brand name lanthanated electrodes in the same size and see how they go. This batch is headed to a box labelled 'bad, do not use!'

Kym

Kym,
First chance I get I'll try a little comparison between the two with my son's Everlast 250EX welder, which is very comparable to your Metalmaster. I'll see if I can pick up on anything outstanding with two brand name tungsten. That'll give me a better comparison than using them both on a transformer. I'd do it now but I don't have any Thoriated here at work.

If I get a chance tomorrow I hook up his welder at the house and run a couple beads. I'm a little busy but I might have to sacrifice some of my day off in the name of science.

Len

Thanks Len!

I look forward to reading your thoughts. And thanks to everyone who has shared their feedback here thus far - very helpful for someone like me who is starting out.

Cheers,

Kym

I've had cheep online 2% lanth electrodes play up on me. Splitting and cracking was the problem no matter how I cut and ground them. Bought some from my lws for about the same price and they were fine. Both came from China but different brands. I think it is important where you buy rather than country of origin. If where you buy cares about their reputation they are more likely to supply the good stuff and I find my lws are trying hard to compete with online stuff. That's been my recent experience anyway.

Coldman wrote:I've had cheep online 2% lanth electrodes play up on me. Splitting and cracking was the problem no matter how I cut and ground them. Bought some from my lws for about the same price and they were fine. Both came from China but different brands. I think it is important where you buy rather than country of origin. If where you buy cares about their reputation they are more likely to supply the good stuff and I find my lws are trying hard to compete with online stuff. That's been my recent experience anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm keen to buy some brand-name 2% Lanthanated and give them a shot to compare. At the moment the Thoriated I have are far better on DC mild steel and the zirconiated white tips perform far better in aluminium.

Everyone tells me that the Lanthanated should be far better than the zirconiated, so I can't wait to see how the quality Lanthanated stuff goes. If it's even better than the zirconiated ones I'm using now I'll be stoked!


Kym