Welding Tips and Tricks

As a preface my brother and I run a custom/restoration shop when not at our 9-5's. Most of our uses rarely exceed an 1/8" and typically fall into the .030-.093 range on materials, so....

Just bought a (new to us) old as balls miller ac/DC gig machine in hopes of being a little more versatile in fab and repairs, my question is this:
1. I (from what I have read and saw in jodies super helpful bids) am assuming that 1/16 electrodes(lanthanated) and

2. 1/16 filler rods will be a good spot to workchoice.040 seems like an option but not sure).

3. Also as far as a torch is concerned I believe the machine has a 17 but a 9 would prob better suit our needs.

4.I am also wondering if I should just gas lens the torch out of the gate or just stick with a diffuser?( a gas lens seems to be pretty much superior in every way and its only a few bucks to just do it and not have a drawer full of stuff I won't use)

5.I am also assuming that maybe 4-8 size cups would get me started along with an assortment of some filler material I do have a smoker I'd like to replace the bottom of with stainless and am assuming e308 is a good all around choice

And finally, I'm assuming that if a .040 electrode is where to start then I would just buy the appropriate might wire for filler unless tig filler comes that small?

Anyways thanks for any light anyone can shed on any of this.

Bo

Sounds like you have a good grasp on it all. The only thing I will add is that a 2.4mm electrode will work for a range of thickness, where as a 1/16 won't go at any amount of heat for long. With a 2.4 all you do is sharpen it differently. Long very sharp point for thin, and shorter sharp point for thicker, higher amps.

So then a 3/32 electrode would be a viable candidate? Excellent I'd think in my area it'd be a for sure to have on hand. Maybe keeping those and 1/16 in my box would also be a good idea.

Is my thinking in just immediately moving to a gas lens setup seem sound?

Hopefully I can hit the lws this weekend and get all my goodies to start burning with the old beast next week.

This will prolly weld everything you need to do.
#17 torch with flex cable
Stubby gas lens in sizes for 1/16 and 3/32
Alumina cups sizes 7 and 8 just buy a box of each
get box of 2% Lanthanated tungsten in each size

One supplier I use is HTP they have the lens separate in that size but not listed on web site if you call them they can hook you up. They do have a kit available as does Jody. that kit both of them sell pretty much has what you need. I always buy tungsten in box then sharpen all them. When welding if you contaminate one just pull it out and put another one in. Saves time getting up to grind tungsten. then when finished regrind your tungstens so they ready next time.

As for filler rod this is stuff I find handy to have on hand and the sizes. I can't see getting by with out these.
ER70S-2 steel
-.045
-1/16
-3/32

308L stainless
-1/16
-3/32

4043 aluminum
1/16
3/32

SIB silicon bronze
1/16
3/32 optional

Aluminum bronze A2
1/16
3/32 optional

Optional filler that I keep also

309L Stainless
1/16
3/32

5356 aluminum
1/16
3/32

if you plan to repair cast get high nickel rod also.

Suggest eventually getting a #9 torch with flex cable just make sure not to overheat it by using too many amps. That's why I suggested you start with the 17 so you can weld at higher amps. I keep a 9,17,26 on hand.

Just had another thought the 2%Lanthanated for whatever reason doesn't seem to be stocked at most LWS. If you ask for it they look at you like your from mars and offer you the dust covered 1.5% Lanthanated. if you need part numbers for gas lens and stuff I can list them for you.

Awesome. Thanks for the help guys. My lws is actually an independent (there is an airgas her too but I digress....) Typically they keep me pretty well setup and hopefully they have gas lens and the other parts on hand, but I am from a town of about 20k so we will see.

Is the 1.5% comparable to the 2% lanthanated tungstens?

1.5%La works pretty well. The 2%La will hold a tip better on AC aluminum welding, but that's about it from what I've seen from actual use. Unless you are pushing the amperage limits for a particular tungsten size, on steels you won't see a difference between 1.5% and 2% Lanthanated.

http://www.weldingsupply.com has tig filler rod all the way down to 0.030" in 36" straight lengths, not only in Mild steel ER70-S(2/3/6), but also in 308L/309L/316L stainless steel. Same goes for Silicon-Bronze, they have down to 0.030" IIRC.

If the thinnest you will weld is 16ga, then you'd likely be better off with 0.045" (filler rod diameter should be less than base material thickness to minimize the heat input) as the thinnest filler to have on hand.

Also, it is cheaper to buy 10 lbs at a time (or a 10lb box), than to buy a couple pounds here and there. Ebay user "Filler Metal Queen" has excellent pricing if you buy many 10lbs boxes at a time, especially for the very thin stainless steel rod. I just bought ER312 stainless for ~$6.50/lbs, which is about half of what you would pay if bought "by the single pound at a time", but because I bought a lot of it, LOL.

A 9-series is great, small and light-weight, but if you happen to be doing 1/8" with it, it will get freaking hot after about 1 minute. A 17-series is much better overall, unless you absolutely have to get into a tight confined space.

No, there is a difference in 1.5% and 2% on how they react in the same settings. Watch this video of Jody where he test several tungstens.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tun ... rodes.html

I keep 2% theoratied on hand too, depends on what I am doing. My tungsten inventories goes from .040 1/16 3/32 1/8 with gas lens for all these sizes. I am a TIG collector though I see shiny TIG parts and like them so I get them in reality the stuff I listed above is what I really use most of time.

The #17torch 3/32 2% Lanthanated tungsten with #8 cup on it. it's the goto set up And most common one I use except on tubing.

4130 Chromoly tubing I use the 9 torch with same set up With 2% theoratied or 2% Lanthanated.

I have huge cups that go to 1 1/8 inches also but that's my collecting disease.

edit Oscar beat me to the question on 1.5% and 2% Lanthanated. I had to look up video link for you

Oscar,

Question for you, I take it you bought from that weldingsupply.com place before. How was your experiences with them. I have been tempted to get filler from them a few times Sometimes they are 20 bucks cheaper then LWS at times and other places. The web site always seems clunky to me and Looks like you got to be careful on the order If you want filler from say Harris. I noticed they have a few options on suppliers and some of them doesn't list who the filler is coming from. I tend to be picky on brands want to know who made filler. So how was your experience, how good was shipping, is products in good shape and new or does filler have corrosion from sitting around.

Getting ready for my yearly order of filler about $600 to $700 dollars worth.

dirtmidget33 wrote:Oscar,

Question for you, I take it you bought from that weldingsupply.com place before. How was your experiences with them. I have been tempted to get filler from them a few times Sometimes they are 20 bucks cheaper then LWS at times and other places. The web site always seems clunky to me and Looks like you got to be careful on the order If you want filler from say Harris. I noticed they have a few options on suppliers and some of them doesn't list who the filler is coming from. I tend to be picky on brands want to know who made filler. So how was your experience, how good was shipping, is products in good shape and new or does filler have corrosion from sitting around.

Getting ready for my yearly order of filler about $600 to $700 dollars worth.

Even though some have had bad experiences with them messing up orders, I have yet to have them mess up on any of my 4 or 5 different orders. I've bought up to 7 or 8 different fillers (or different diameters), and each order came exactly as ordered on their website.

Yes you have to be careful to not order the "house brand", which I believe is Weldcote Metals, if you really want authentic Lincoln/Harris/etc. Shipping is very reasonable, if you buy several pounds at a time. The least shipping cost is around ~$15, so buying 1-lbs of ER70-S6 wire @ $2/lb isn't all that smart to do, but buying 10+ lbs at a time (combined) is the best way to go. I usually don't buy less than about 5 lbs at a time.

All the tig filler rod I have ordered from them has come to me perfectly clean, no dirt/grease/grime/oxidation/etc at all. Very pleased so far. They don't ship in cardboard boxes though, from what I have seen. My largest order was perhaps 12 or 13 lbs, and what they do is shrink-wrap each filler rod bundle by diameter, then they wire-tie a tag on it with the ER-whatever designation x diameter x length and the weight of that bundle, then all the different items get shrink-wrapped together even further with many layers, and then they use clear packaging tape around the ends for extra protection---so you end up getting a big ol- 3-ft long bundle of rod that will weigh quite a bit if the are steel/steel-alloy rods (not as much of course if you order Silicon-Bronze and/or aluminum, or other low-density rod). They have gotten to Texas from Illinois like this many times, and I have yet to find any damage on even a single rod. Even the 0.030" rods come pristine. Of course this depends on your local UPS sorting facility, by my UPS is pretty good over all. Hell I used to work there in my late-teens as a morning "unloader", and always tried my best to save even the tiniest shipment. I guess Karma paid off for me.

Thanks Oscar

I guess instead of them stocking 10lbs and 50lbs boxes they must buy rod in large bulk quantities then break that down for shipping In warehouse. explains why they are cheaper then everyone else. My next filler order prolly gonna be 60-80lbs to set me up for year. So I am shopping around helps me get some haggling room when I goto the LWS and see if they can get close to pricing. need mag rod not a lot of wiggle room on that. Plus wanna stock some titanium filler too.

dirtmidget33 wrote:Thanks Oscar

I guess instead of them stocking 10lbs and 50lbs boxes they must buy rod in large bulk quantities then break that down for shipping In warehouse. explains why they are cheaper then everyone else. My next filler order prolly gonna be 60-80lbs to set me up for year. So I am shopping around helps me get some haggling room when I goto the LWS and see if they can get close to pricing. need mag rod not a lot of wiggle room on that. Plus wanna stock some titanium filler too.

Yea their house-brand is definitely bulk. They don't have much Ti filler though. I know I was looking around for ERTi-5 and they didn't have any. Cheapest I have found is through TitaniumJoe.com. $75/lb on most diameters.

I noticed a lot of places carry the ERTi-2 when almost every thing needs ERTi-5 at least stuff on the racecars do. Not sure what the big uses of unalloyed titanium (grade 2) is for. Especially since all supply houses feel a need to stock it. I was always told grade 5 is the most common alloy. I would think more would stock that over ERTi-2

I apologize to O.P. About hijacking your thread

dirtmidget33 wrote:I noticed a lot of places carry the ERTi-2 when almost every thing needs ERTi-5 at least stuff on the racecars do. Not sure what the big uses of unalloyed titanium (grade 2) is for. Especially since all supply houses feel a need to stock it. I was always told grade 5 is the most common alloy. I would think more would stock that over ERTi-2

I apologize to O.P. About hijacking your thread

The ERTi-2 is for CP Ti sheet and tube, e.g. , heat shields and exhausts.

This place is worth remembering if you are ever looking for a special rod. Their catalogue has good tech info as well.

http://www.lawires.com/catalogue/select_all.php

kiwi2wheels wrote:

dirtmidget33 wrote:I noticed a lot of places carry the ERTi-2 when almost every thing needs ERTi-5 at least stuff on the racecars do. Not sure what the big uses of unalloyed titanium (grade 2) is for. Especially since all supply houses feel a need to stock it. I was always told grade 5 is the most common alloy. I would think more would stock that over ERTi-2

I apologize to O.P. About hijacking your thread

The ERTi-2 is for CP Ti sheet and tube, e.g. , heat shields and exhausts.

This place is worth remembering if you are ever looking for a special rod. Their catalogue has good tech info as well.

http://www.lawires.com/catalogue/select_all.php

Do they even sell to the general public in small(er) quantities? I know weldwire.net does, but it is still 10 lbs minimum order.

@Oscar,

They used to with no problems, that was the beauty of them.

I should add last though, last time I bought from them was about 10 years back, but I would be very surprised if they have changed.

No problem, its all handy info, if I can remember it....

Just a note on ti filler...if the charts call for grade 5, consider grade 23. That is the extra low interstitial (ELI) version of the 6/4 grade. No matter how careful you are with your coverage and cleanliness, you will introduce some contaminents. You might as well use a filler that introduces fewer contaminates.

zank wrote:Just a note on ti filler...if the charts call for grade 5, consider grade 23. That is the extra low interstitial (ELI) version of the 6/4 grade. No matter how careful you are with your coverage and cleanliness, you will introduce some contaminents. You might as well use a filler that introduces fewer contaminates.

I wonder why they even make/offer the non-ELI grade 5 if the ELI version is seemingly better

zank wrote:Just a note on ti filler...if the charts call for grade 5, consider grade 23. That is the extra low interstitial (ELI) version of the 6/4 grade. No matter how careful you are with your coverage and cleanliness, you will introduce some contaminents. You might as well use a filler that introduces fewer contaminates.

Thank you Zank, now I know I might as well order a different filler all together I read where ERTi-23 was originally classified as ERTi-5ELI but was not really sure if I should use it the way it was worded. Any suggestions on a supplier for ERTi-23

I got this from American filler metals
Applications:
AFM ERTi-23 (Grade 23) is used in many high strength industrial applications such as shafts where very
high strength, but better toughness and fabricability than Grade 5 is desired.
This grade is often specified for marine and offshore energy production components that are exposed to
low temperature seawater due to higher fracture toughness values than Grade 5.
With special processing, this alloy can develop high fracture toughness.
Primary uses are in surgical implants, cryogenic vessels, and airframe components.
* ERTi-23 (Grade 23) was classified “ERTi-5ELI” formerly.
ELI = Extra Low Interstitial

I know Titaniumjoe.com lists grade 5, but only the 0.020" wire is listed as ELI. Perhaps you just have to inquire about that version in the other sizes. $75/lb

I snagged some grade 23 wire from Joe in 0.040" when he last had it. Check in with him to see if he can source it.

zank wrote:I snagged some grade 23 wire from Joe in 0.040" when he last had it. Check in with him to see if he can source it.

I emailed them seeing if it was possible to order 1/16 and .045 or .040

Thanks guys for the help
Wally

zank
i have a ti motorcycle exhaust to mess with
you mentioned getting 23 from joe?
who is joe?
craig