Welding Tips and Tricks

So many I times I have heard people asking that are you or is she/he a certified welder? Does your welds pass x-ray testing.... Oh you do have, WOW you must be a great welder then etc...!

It always pisses me off when people automatically praise welders who can weld x-ray welds. So many times x-ray don't tell the whole truth. It only tells if there is a lack of penetration or porosity for example, but it don't tell anything about corrosion recistance nor overheating of the material and therefore loosing strenght or precious ingredients of the metal.


Here is very good example of one "x-ray weld", that we had to repair at work. I suppose that some idiot didn't knew why stainless needs a good purge. Or then he just didn't care It's rusted already and yet never been in production

Well work for us of course, but still... I just can't understand why

No one testing method is going to tell you everything. I've heard plenty of welders say they'd rather take an x-ray test than a bend test.

Markus,

That appears to be a Perlite-plate substitute for vacuuming perlite into an annular space. The O-ring groove and complete absence of attachments suggest this.

Steve S

Oh, and,

NO! X-ray is an easier test than a 3X2 bend (2 face, 2 root, 2 side). It's easier than a 2X2 test (2 face, 2 root).

My ASME qualification test was a bend test. My work tests are all x-ray and pressurization.

Steve S

First we would need to define a "great weldor". In defining a great weldor we would need a standard to judge by. Who would be the universal judges and what welds (or x-ray) do you judge?

NO, is my answer to the original question.
-Jonathan

I "love" when someone tells me they just passed their BSFU ( ) certification, and thinks they're a golden-arm God.

Spend a week in my world, or Jonathan's world, or Markus' world, or anyone here with at leat five years in the trades.

That cert is worth a job interview and a weld test, nothing more.

Steve S

Another question, is a certified weldor better in everyone's eyes than a non certified weldor? Example: Production weldor who has never been tested but welded for 20 years compared to someone who has welded for 2 years but has a list of certs. Just a question. One of my welding mentors has welded for about 20 some years can run beads that are awesome and I hear people all the time talking about well if you aren't certified then you aren't good enough.

mcoe wrote: I hear people all the time talking about, "well if you aren't certified then you aren't good enough."

............What stupid statement.
I've seen 3 year welding students, who "supposedly" have passed welding tests, lay garbage welds in right front of me.
They have no clue how to set-up a machine, or nothing.

Ticks me off.

I have to agree with Steve. Certs or qualifications will give you a better chance of a interview. HOWEVER, if you are not qualified with papers in hand I would not let you weld on one of our weldments or if we did pressure vessels you wouldn't weld on them either. Why? If we have went through all the trouble of setting up company WPS' and the expense of qualifing all employees, you need to too. It should be no big deal.....right? If you are that good of a weldor than passing a welding test should be a breeze. And then there is the liability. Unfortunately our world is run be lawyers and insurance agents. You would not believe (or would) the nonsense I go through at work just to make sure the company does not get sued in case of a wrong doing. Welding certs are no different. Once you set up that program you are "doomed". Now when I author a document guess what, the lawyers have to approve it and perform their magic. This is why you MUST carry the proper paperwork to weld.

To answer Matt's question, the 20 year veteran earns my respect and usually will get first dibs on a job. But like mentioned above, they still would need to certify. Usually the 2 year rookie with certs does not know as much anyway as John said and will need training. But then again with 20 years in it is hard to teach a old dog new tricks, meaning they might be set in their ways already. This topic has been debated at work and the forums and usually ends up in a big fight with everyone wanting their opinion shared. We must be careful how much farther we tread.
-Jonathan

As an example...

I have many years of experience, and am current in ASME B31.1 and B31.9. Look great on a resume.

If I walk in to Jonathan's shop tomorrow, and he needs a weldor, am I a shoe-in? NO! I'm going to have to test to his approved WPS, and if I bust the test I'm out.

That's the reality of our trade.

Steve S

That's why I love this place we can have an intelligent convo without all The bs arguing that this convo would have elsewhere

I know a heap of welders that have passed xray and visual test plates, but where absolutely rubbish on the job.

I will add that just because someone had welded for 10 or 20 years or more, doesn't mean they know what they are doing! Alternatively, just because someone has only welded a year or two doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. The reason I say this is where I work, production, we try not to shut the line down. Doing so causes a lot of scrap footage of material, normally 75-300 feet. We weld steel and aluminum coils end to end to make bi-metal for engine bearings that go in just about every big name.
It's not too hard but some people just don't get it. We fusion weld steel .032"-.107" on our line, and weld aluminum alloys .045"-.140". Our most common is aluminum welds breaking, but even some manage to break steel welds.

The guy I mentioned in my example is the line manager for a company that builds custom trailers and beds for semis and large trucks. They weld steel, stainless, and aluminum. He went to school for welding 20 some years ago but where he works they don't require any certifications so he never got certified. Another example is this guy that lives down the road from me is a pipe welder, certified, and I have had to grind out and re-weld a lot of stuff that he has done for a mutual friend of ours. Before I grind them out I always look at them and it just amazes me what he will lay down and call good.

LOL...

pass x-ray = great welder

I've heard the same thing in the structural steel world when a welder passes a UT of a CJP weld. I've seen welds that look absolutely horrible, yet somehow they managed to keep it clean enough to not have any rejectable reflectors. I throw those in the same category as "even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and again"...LOL

Some of the best welders I know don't have a single certification to their name, but that in of itself doesn't mean a thing, any one of them could pass any test you can throw at them. Certs are just not required for what they weld, period.

There's welders that we all aspire to weld like on Instagram and Youtube that even have a cult following that probably don't have certs or need them to weld up a beautiful manifold or exhaust system. Different worlds. Would I let them weld up a steam line on a boiler? Not a chance. Why? As Jonathan said, litigation and liability. Our world blows.

Len

In AUS, you just have to be qualified by test plate to the standard (code) you are working to. No certs required.

Otto Nobedder wrote:Oh, and,

NO! X-ray is an easier test than a 3X2 bend (2 face, 2 root, 2 side). It's easier than a 2X2 test (2 face, 2 root).

My ASME qualification test was a bend test. My work tests are all x-ray and pressurization.

Steve S

I agree seen a few guys pass xray but fail the bend test. I remember watching then bens my ASME IX samples, nerve racking to watch a piece of pipe bend that far.

Rick_H,

When I took my test for boiler code (simple GTAW 2" sch. 40 304ss 6G), I was told it would be an x-ray. I was breathing easy. Then the results came back, and they DID bend it (2X root and face). I think I'd have performed worse if I'd known it was a bend, as I'd have had more stress.

Steve S

Here's mine...

Newbie observation (from a totally different field...)

Tests don't tell you something is good. Passing the test fails to prove that something is bad. The difference is subtle but important.

Anyone can pass a shop test especially an x-ray, why do i say this well because its a shop test and all variables are in your favor thats why the on the job welds are trash they are not shop welds. Like most of us here we have welded upside down with mirrors with our hood laying on a pipe and still need to pass the x- ray. So ya people who boast on the cert have lots to actually prove in the field like someone posted looks good for the interview, but we all have to put up or shut up which is why we are welders,its part of the fun

I've seen people who have no clue on how to pass an xray test in the shop.(most was 7 busted shots). So I goes they are screwed....haha

Msumner wrote:Anyone can pass a shop test especially an x-ray, why do i say this well because its a shop test and all variables are in your favor thats why the on the job welds are trash they are not shop welds. Like most of us here we have welded upside down with mirrors with our hood laying on a pipe and still need to pass the x- ray. So ya people who boast on the cert have lots to actually prove in the field like someone posted looks good for the interview, but we all have to put up or shut up which is why we are welders,its part of the fun

Indeed, the best is when you have to slither into some gods forsaken place, body contorted like a snake around all the stands and pipes, laying in oil or god knows what else, have to have someone feed your hood to you so you can lay it on the ground in front of you, and weld fully extended around a corner cause you couldn't get your body there. Wonder why my back hurts all the time now lol.

And Human Resources people wonder why you hold out for more coin.