Welding Tips and Tricks

I have been asked by a neighbor to help him build a cradle for his engine, being a diesel it is very heavy and need to be really stout.

He insists on building it using2x4 box tubing .25" wall thickness.

What I dont know is what would be the best filler rod to use for this application I have been using the ER70S2 for most of my steel, but dont like the flow characteristics. It just doesnt puddle and flow a nicely as the SS308 and such I have been using as well.

Given that strength is of utmost importance and the thickness of the material wanted to know what would be the best applicable rod type for this job.

I only have the ?/32" electrodes so if I have to go up in size that will also have to be considered.

Ideally what would you use for this (and a Mig welder is not an option - I tig that is all )

Filler rod type and size. The steel is run of the mill 2x4 no cro-molly or DOM stuff.

Regular 70 S ( ? ) should be perfectly adequate for this in my opinion - the fluidity of the puddle is largely dependent on amps versus travel speed but the silicon content will effect it - S6 is more sluggish than say S2 so maybe check what you have - you could weld it with the 3/32" you already have - it just takes more feeding to get bead size on thicker material - if I were doing it I would probably get some 1/8" rod & have the amps well up - ultimate strength on a box section frame is as much about construction / joint type & gusseting than the weld itself as usually you will tear the wall out of the box at a joint long before the weld fails.

Thanks that is the kind of input I was looking for so I can have him pick up some ER70S-2 in 1/8 and still use the 3/32 electrode or am I better off matching the electrode to the rod diameter.

I have a miller dialarc 300HF so plenty of amps to play with and a water cooled torch so that part of the equation I am good with.

Here is what Lincoln says about the different rods.

Lincoln ER70S-6 Top Features

High levels of silicon and manganese for use on slightly contaminated base materials
More puddle fluidity
Excellent wetting action
Ink jet printing identification on entire length of electrode
Q2 Lot – certificate showing actual deposit chemistry and mechanical properties per lot available online


Lincoln ER70S-2 Top Features

Contains zirconium, titanium, and aluminum in addition to silicon and manganese
Produces x-ray quality welds over most surface conditions
Recommended for TIG welding on all grades of steel
Ink jet printing identification on entire length of electrode
Q2 Lot – certificate showing actual deposit chemistry and mechanical properties per lot available online

So if I am reading this right

S6 better flow and might be a better choice not knowing the exact qualities of the material I am going to be working wtih
S2 more applicable for structural welding on cleaner materials where inspection may be required.

In my case either would work but the S6 might be a better choice given the unknown aspect of the tubing condition I am going to be working on.

Am I getting this correct? I will go with 1/8 rod regardless of which one gets used.

Since you will control how much you clean the material, I don't think it would matter either way.

I just use 70s-2 for tig. It's common and works fine for my random applications.

I use the 0.035" 70s-6 from my mig spool when I need really small rod and that works fine too.

1/4" wall tubing??

3/32" or 1/8" 7018....

I use ER70S-2 for most of my welding but I've found on thin material where you can't clean the back side that ER70S-6 works better when you pull junk from the back side. I really never notice much difference in the way they wet out though. I haven't done a side by side comparison, though someone on here has, I just can't remember who.

Len

Braehill wrote:I haven't done a side by side comparison, though someone on here has, I just can't remember who.

Len

Ah good, then it's not just my memory failing - I can't remember either

If my welds failed as often as my memory, I'd never be asked to weld anything.

Len


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Unless I'm getting muddled in my old age or remembering the rods wrong S6 flows slightly less easily & tends to leave large silicon " islands " - on a single pass weld it's not a big deal - I assume you will do a multi pass on this thickness - this being the case it's easy to trap contaminants in subsequent passes - S6 is more suited to metal that is not perfectly clean & as such is common in Mig wire as you don't surgically clean for Mig as a rule unless it's a critical weld - S2 has different cleaning agents ( and less ) which cope fine & leave less cleaning required between passes so long as the material is clean - if your material is new & you clean it around the weld areas then I would use S2 - if it's second hand material or been outside & gone rusty I would not use Tig ( the difference in puddle between the S grades is not that much unless I'm not very observant or it varies with brand ) - I realize you said you only have a Tig - but it would be better to borrow a stick welder & use 7018 if the material is not new in my opinion.

noddybrian wrote:Unless I'm getting muddled in my old age or remembering the rods wrong S6 flows slightly less easily & tends to leave large silicon " islands " - on a single pass weld it's not a big deal - I assume you will do a multi pass on this thickness - this being the case it's easy to trap contaminants in subsequent passes - S6 is more suited to metal that is not perfectly clean & as such is common in Mig wire as you don't surgically clean for Mig as a rule unless it's a critical weld - S2 has different cleaning agents ( and less ) which cope fine & leave less cleaning required between passes so long as the material is clean - if your material is new & you clean it around the weld areas then I would use S2 - if it's second hand material or been outside & gone rusty I would not use Tig ( the difference in puddle between the S grades is not that much unless I'm not very observant or it varies with brand ) - I realize you said you only have a Tig - but it would be better to borrow a stick welder & use 7018 if the material is not new in my opinion.

I thought he had a miller dialarc???

Should have stick....

AKweldshop wrote:1/4" wall tubing??

3/32" or 1/8" 7018....

Yeah he insists on using 1/4" material.

7018? Isnt that arc welding designation not tig filler wire?

That's what he said John - I've never seen one but I assume it can be used as a CC power source without HF - so for want of a stinger it should weld 7018 which on 1/4" wall 4 * 2" box would seem the logical choice - unless this thing is going to be on show somewhere & the weld needs to be " art " ! -

noddybrian wrote:That's what he said John - I've never seen one but I assume it can be used as a CC power source without HF - so for want of a stinger it should weld 7018 which on 1/4" wall 4 * 2" box would seem the logical choice - unless this thing is going to be on show somewhere & the weld needs to be " art " ! -

Who says 7018 can't look good??

DSM8 wrote:

AKweldshop wrote:1/4" wall tubing??

3/32" or 1/8" 7018....

Yeah he insists on using 1/4" material.

7018? Isnt that arc welding designation not tig filler wire?

Yes!!!
Stick!

You'll be way better off stick welding it!

Hard to keep up with the posts tonight ! replies coming faster than I can type !
Yes 7018 is a stick electrode - John is suggesting on that size material it would be a more logical choice assuming your Miller can be set to constant current without HF - all you need is a stinger - but if you want to go with Tig that's OK - just will take a bit longer & need more than one pass - like I said though - ultimate strength will be on joint design & gusseting - on box the side will tear out before a weld gives normally - at least you have plenty of power & a torch that will handle it so Tig it if that suits you better - just costs more than stick & is slower - but then both John & I are used to farm stuff more than precision !

noddybrian wrote:Hard to keep up with the posts tonight ! replies coming faster than I can type !
Yes 7018 is a stick electrode - John is suggesting on that size material it would be a more logical choice assuming your Miller can be set to constant current without HF - all you need is a stinger - but if you want to go with Tig that's OK - just will take a bit longer & need more than one pass - like I said though - ultimate strength will be on joint design & gusseting - on box the side will tear out before a weld gives normally - at least you have plenty of power & a torch that will handle it so Tig it if that suits you better - just costs more than stick & is slower - but then both John & I are used to farm stuff more than precision !

Who says 7018 isn't precision??

IMO,
Your way better off with stick.
Steelwise,
Tig is for 1/8" and under...

AKweldshop wrote: I thought he had a miller dialarc???

Should have stick....

Yes I have a dialarc but no stinger, so stick is not an option.
Only choice is tig welding it.
Also I want the practice

I'd agree for a 4 * 2 box frame stick seems to fit the bill & yes 7018 can look real nice ( you've posted some good looking stuff ) but I disagree that Tig is for 1'8" & less - there are times that Tig can be of benefit on thicker even if it's just used on the root - but it's all a matter of opinion & what you have available - this could be done well with any process the OP is comfortable with - I'd likely Mig it for speed / cost - but he says he does'nt have that - Tig will be fine as long as everything is clean enough & cost is not too important.

Off topic John - but you finished baling for this year ? I'm surprised how late in the year you can still go - our seasons must be a little out of sync - especially as you were combining recently - virtually everything here is long since finished - most is already cultivated / drilled for next year.

noddybrian wrote:I'd agree for a 4 * 2 box frame stick seems to fit the bill & yes 7018 can look real nice ( you've posted some good looking stuff ) but I disagree that Tig is for 1'8" & less - there are times that Tig can be of benefit on thicker even if it's just used on the root - but it's all a matter of opinion & what you have available - this could be done well with any process the OP is comfortable with - I'd likely Mig it for speed / cost - but he says he does'nt have that - Tig will be fine as long as everything is clean enough & cost is not too important.

Off topic John - but you finished baling for this year ? I'm surprised how late in the year you can still go - our seasons must be a little out of sync - especially as you were combining recently - virtually everything here is long since finished - most is already cultivated / drilled for next year.

Ok,
Yeah,
Tig is a good process.
It's just not my specialty.


There's lots of tig snobs out there, so say what you will.
It won't bother me one bit.

I speak for myself only.

Noddy,
We've got 150 acres of hay down..
And about 50acres of grain to combine, and bale the straw.

Hope the weather holds for you John - that's a fair bit left to do this late in the year - I'll keep an eye on your You Tube channel to see how it goes.

Thanks for the inputs.

I know stick would be more suited to this application (or even mig for that matter) given the dimensions of the material.

That said since I only have the Tig that is what I have to work within the boundaries of. Besides my laying a bead with a stick welder looks just slightly better than a line left behind by a rabid cow with explosive diarrhea.

Yes it is that bad....

DSM8 wrote:Thanks for the inputs.

I know stick would be more suited to this application (or even mig for that matter) given the dimensions of the material.

That said since I only have the Tig that is what I have to work within the boundaries of. Besides my laying a bead with a stick welder looks just slightly better than a line left behind by a rabid cow with explosive diarrhea.

Yes it is that bad....

I would know.
I'm a cattle farmer.

Good luck with your project...

I'll just say when you design everything, try to have your joints carry the weight instead of your welds.

Coldman did a comparison of TIG filler performance here:
http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... f=5&t=5244