Welding Tips and Tricks

Posted: **Sat May 24, 2014 10:05 pm**

I know, not another post about this

Questions in bold.

Some background. I am right now a wannabe hobby welder with plans of having my own farm. I mainly make stuff for my motorcycles and a welder would let me make them look better and stronger. The largest metals I have used in the past with simple machining were 1/8th" mild steel and 1/8th" aluminum. I don't know if I would need to weld stuff greater than this but I don't want to get equipment I will regret later because it isn't capable of doing what I want to do.

So I have already done some homework and this is what I am thinking of getting:

Pass & Seymour 3867CC5 Angle Plug Three Pole Four Wire 30-Amp/50-Amp 125-volt/250-volt $16.77ea
TIG Finger Heat Shield $14.99
CK CK20-25SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 25' Flex. 3 pc SuperFlex $130.53
2014 Everlast PowerTig 250EX AC DC TIG STICK Pulse welder 220/240 Volt Inverter-Based AC DC $1550.00
Everlast PowerCool W300 Water Cooler $397.16
CK SGL-KITM Accessory Kit -Stubby Gas Lens. 4GL- 1/16, 3/32, 1/8 $66.57
CK T187GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode Ceriated 1/8" X 7" Pkg = 3 $12.70
CK T1167GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 1/16" X 7" Pkg = 3 $4.49
CK T3327GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 3/32" X 7" Pkg = 3 $7.74
Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $297.12
Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $9.96
Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 1/8" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $23.33
200cuft tank ~$250
Electrician to install 14-50p outlet (since I don't want to be liable for burning the house down) ~$300
Total ~ 3081.36

I posted this list on a non-welding forum where I am tracking my current motorcycle project and got some good and some negative feedback.

It was suggested I should use Lanthanated vs ceriated tungsten and after watching some more videos I will likely update this on my purchase list. Note: 2% Lanthanated 10 pkg's cost substantially more at $13.69 @ 1/16, $30.71 @ 3/32, and $50.66 @ 1/8.

I also got flack for the welding helmet but to me I rather have quality and know my eyes will be safe then something cheap and have to wonder. I realize this list doesn't include the Dinse adapter I would need to use the green box but it is just a general list to get this discussion started.

I was also told to go with other cheaper welders like AHP. It seems many like their AHP I am just concerned about features. Originally I was looking at the 200dx but figured for a little extra I could get 50 more amps, a higher duty cycle, and more control over the arc, but am I worrying about the wrong thing? S

I am fully capable of installing the 240v outlet however since I live in a condo (2 stories are mine + garage on lower floor), I don't want to risk the liability issues. I will likely install the outlet, run the wire, buy the new breaker and just have the electrician screw everything together to save some money. I mention this as it would cost $300-$450 to get an electrician to do all of that but probably cost less to get them to do minimal work. The outlet will serve double duty as the outlet for my future EVSE to charge my motorcycle.

I am also interested in the gas saver kits but noted they don't come in a stubby format. Should I forgo the stubby set since it is a ck20 and just get the gas saver parts?

Does this list seem to include what I will need? I realize there are other things I will likely need on top of this like a surface to weld on, some fans to move air in and out of my garage, a barrier to not let nosy neighbors know what I am doing as I am sure they will freak out and over react, and likely some hoses or hose covers. I am also unsure on the cost of a 200cu tank from my local airgas but I know I rather own than rent / lease. How much does a full / empty 200cu tank weigh and would it fit in a small sedan?

Thoughts? Advice?

Posted: **Sat May 24, 2014 10:17 pm**

If the cost of a 10pk of 2%La tungstens deters you, this might be the wrong hobby for you.

But seriously, you can't go wrong with 2%La.

The 20series tig torch already has small consumables/cups/etc, so there is no need for a stubby kit to exist. Any shorter and you'll be burning up the torch rubber prematurely from the torch head being so close to molten steel @ 2500F+ temperatures.

Stubby kits were created primarily for the 17/18/26 torches that have larger cups/collets as standard parts.

Posted: **Sat May 24, 2014 10:22 pm**

Wow, most questions asked here do not have that kind of homework already done. I will hit just a few of your questions. For the tungsten, I would recommend the 2% Lanthanated for sure. I have and use it almost exclusively. This will be your most economical choice in my opinion.
For a machine, well now a days it is really up to personal preference and budget. The Everlasts have great reviews and will let someone here that owns one answer more on those. I would like to buy one someday just to try it out.
I am glad you opted for a Tig finger, this will help you down your welding journey.
There is nothing wrong with the Miller Titanium series helmets, I have demoed them and they work great. In my personal opinion, I would rather spend my money on a good helmet and get the quality and features than waste it on cheaper models.
More here will offer up help and advice, keep us posted on what you ultimately purchase.
-Jonathan

Posted: **Sat May 24, 2014 11:01 pm**

Oscar wrote:If the cost of a 10pk of 2%La tungstens deters you, this might be the wrong hobby for you.
But seriously, you can't go wrong with 2%La.
The 20series tig torch already has small consumables/cups/etc, so there is no need for a stubby kit to exist. Any shorter and you'll be burning up the torch rubber prematurely from the torch head being so close to molten steel @ 2500F+ temperatures. Stubby kits were created primarily for the 17/18/26 torches that have larger cups/collets as standard parts.

Thanks for the info on the stubby kits, makes sense. I just realized my list above has the ceriated in 3pkg not 10pk which has a similar cost to lanthanated, even though lanthanated still cost a little more. In perspective the packages will likely last me a while so it really isn't much of a cost issue.

Superiorwelding,
Thanks for your input. When I bought my first motorcycle it only cost me $1500 and I stripped it down to frame, cleaned it, maintenance it, and repaired it before learning to ride it. Before all of that though I already spent a good $2500 just on the equipment I would be wearing when I ride the bike. I take safety pretty seriously and have found it isn't a good idea to cut costs there.

In relation to the CK accessory kit above. How does the gas saver kit for series 2 compare to the stubby kit? I realize the stubby kit listed above comes with the three size back caps and the GS doesn't. I was more interest in gas use and coverage between the two.

I just noticed I forgot to include a better quality pedal with my "upgrade" purchases for the green box. Are there any key features I should be looking for a new pedal and are there any differences in connections?

Thanks for the advice.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 1:55 am**

The stubby kit you listed will not work with a 2-series torch due to that kit uses 3-series gas lenses (4GL). The CK20 being a 2-series torch uses (2GL) gas lenses. The 2-series torch does have a stubby cups (alumina & lava), but they do not use "stubby gas lens". They use short collet bodies and reverse collets.

As for the 2-series gas saver alumina & pyrex cups, they are just a 1/4" longer than the 2-series gas lens alumina cups. The link below, pages 1,2,3 and 7 have the part numbers for the 2-series torch consumables.
http://www.ckworldwide.com/form105/p47_55.pdf

I used a WP17 style air cooled torch for some time, and will be switching over to the CK200 once I finish my water cooler build. I ended up getting a 1/16" 2-Series Gas Saver Kit w/ Pyrex Cup; .040" & 3/32" tungsten adapters w/screens; a few .040", 1/16", 3/32" wedge collets; and gas saver #4, #6, #8 alumina cups. Another thing that interested me about the gas saver setup is the use of push-on cups.

Also, here is a good tech manual provided by CK Worldwide. It has a lot of good setup information from flow rates, tig cup sizes per electrode diameter, what included angles to grind tungstens to for various current ranges, plus a whole lot of other good information.
http://www.ckworldwide.com/technical_specs.pdf

Lastly, if you are looking for some decent prices on tig torch packages, consumables, etc; if you do not already use them, Mississippi Welders Supply is a great site. I ordered a CK200 Rigid w/ 25ft Superflex Cables here for $114. I learned of this website by being recommended by another member here where to get the Gas Saver Consumables and Kits for a lot lower than what they sale for at other welding supply stores online.
http://store.mwsco.com/storefront/home?idAffiliate=

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 4:22 am**

Callmeburton wrote:So I have already done some homework and this is what I am thinking of getting:

Pass & Seymour 3867CC5 Angle Plug Three Pole Four Wire 30-Amp/50-Amp 125-volt/250-volt $16.77ea
A small point - that plug is a NEMA 14-50, which includes a 4th pole for neutral (allowing for a 120v tap). It's popular for ranges, dryers, and RVs (i.e., residential). In commercial settings, I've seen NEMA 6-50 used more - it's a similar 3-pole connector. Both will work; it's just a question of whether you need the unit to be portable (to residential or commercial?) and/or share the outlet with something that needs the neutral. If you go mobile, you'll probably end up with short adapter cables over time anyway.

CK CK20-25SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 25' Flex. 3 pc SuperFlex $130.53
+1 for the Superflex - it's very nice. It's been recommended to me that you shouldn't get the long cable unless you really need the length - CK talked me out of the 25' cables. Interesting problems have been reported from folks having the torch or ground cables coiled during use (it creates magnetic fields that can cause issues).

CK SGL-KITM Accessory Kit -Stubby Gas Lens. 4GL- 1/16, 3/32, 1/8 $66.57
Buy your CK gear at mwsco.com. Crappy website; amazing prices. It's run by the same company as WeldFabulous.com

2014 Everlast PowerTig 250EX AC DC TIG STICK Pulse welder 220/240 Volt Inverter-Based AC DC $1550.00

Everlast PowerCool W300 Water Cooler $397.16
Negotiate harder with Everlast.

CK T187GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode Ceriated 1/8" X 7" Pkg = 3 $12.70

CK T1167GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 1/16" X 7" Pkg = 3 $4.49

CK T3327GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 3/32" X 7" Pkg = 3 $7.74
Don't buy tungsten from CK out the gate. Get a variety from USAweld.com (HTP) for a killer price. Until your skills are pretty good, I doubt you'll be able to tell between quality of different brands. And Jody's done a couple videos now to compare different tungstens, and 2% Lanthanated is consistently universal.

Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $297.12
No experience with this helmet, but I got a high-grade hand-me-down from a union pipefitter, and I have none of the issues that guys complain about with cheap masks (e.g., getting flashed due to not enough sensors).

Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $9.96
Get a couple pair. As tradeoff for being thin/sensitive, they aren't rugged. Grab a pair of MIG gloves too, and a MIG tool - you'll use them for handling hot steel. (Plus, your welder does stick too.)

Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 1/8" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $23.33
You're on the right track. Buy your filler rod locally in 10lb tubes - smaller tubes are a waste of money, and you can't get filler rod cheap enough online to make it worth the shipping. But, get a few sizes - I'd suggest 1/16 and 3/32 too.

200cuft tank ~$250
Try to get your LWS to sell you a 300cf tank instead. Mine considers them interchangeable with the 200's (same price and refill).

Electrician to install 14-50p outlet (since I don't want to be liable for burning the house down) ~$300
Totally depends on how far you are from the breaker box. That gauge is expensive and a bear to dress in. But if they're just terminating you could probably find one to do it for ~$150-$200.
I am also interested in the gas saver kits but noted they don't come in a stubby format. Should I forgo the stubby set since it is a ck20 and just get the gas saver parts?

Does this list seem to include what I will need? I am also unsure on the cost of a 200cu tank from my local airgas but I know I rather own than rent / lease.
Get a Harbor Freight folding welding table - it's a clone of the Stronghand Nomad, and it's nicely solid. $60-70, minus a 25% coupon which you can readily find. You will, of course, have the obligatory projects to build a welding cart and a welding table.
I paid $245 for my 300cf cylinder, filled; refills are $50 - this varies a ton by locale (and in some places you can't buy cylinders, which sucks). I shopped around and found the best deal at a locally-owned LWS; by comparison, Praxair wanted $400 for the cylinder, and another $120 per fill!
Consider a respirator mask - keeps from breathing grinding dust. E.g., 3M 6297, $25 at Home Depot.
And speaking of grinding, you'll need an angle grinder - or, more like 4 (wire wheel, grinder, cutoff, flap wheel). Then a second set of wheels to swap on for doing aluminum work. And a third set for stainless work. You can get grinders cheap in the 5-amp range, but I prefer ~11-amp models.
Ah, and then you need a way to sharpen tungsten. Angle grinder can work in a pinch; 6" bench grinder is better. A diamond wheel is ideal ($100), but regular oxide wheel is just fine for learning with. I use an oxide wheel to rough shape the tips quickly, then finish them on the diamond wheel.

How much does a full / empty 200cu tank weigh and would it fit in a small sedan?
It would fit, but they're heavy - I'd wager 250 pounds; one person can muscle them around, but it takes 2 to finesse. Keep the windows down on the drive home; OK to transport lying down, but store upright and chained.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Richard

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 6:09 am**

Hey,

Richard,

A big 5 stars for taking the time and making considerable effort to help a new member. My hat is off to you sir.

Mick

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 8:05 am**

weldin mike 27 wrote:Hey,

Richard,

A big 5 stars for taking the time and making considerable effort to help a new member. My hat is off to you sir.

Mick

X2 I'm a beginner too, and that was some good info.Thanks.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 8:46 am**

weldin mike 27 wrote:Hey,

Richard,

A big 5 stars for taking the time and making considerable effort to help a new member. My hat is off to you sir.

Mick

I agree, great response!
-Jonathan

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 9:08 am**

New questions in bold.

dynasty200sd wrote:The stubby kit you listed will not work with a 2-series torch due to that kit uses 3-series gas lenses (4GL). The CK20 being a 2-series torch uses (2GL) gas lenses. The 2-series torch does have a stubby cups (alumina & lava), but they do not use "stubby gas lens". They use short collet bodies and reverse collets.

You are completely right! >_< New list of stuff below.

dynasty200sd wrote: Lastly, if you are looking for some decent prices on tig torch packages, consumables, etc; if you do not already use them, Mississippi Welders Supply is a great site. I ordered a CK200 Rigid w/ 25ft Superflex Cables here for $114. I learned of this website by being recommended by another member here where to get the Gas Saver Consumables and Kits for a lot lower than what they sale for at other welding supply stores online.
http://store.mwsco.com/storefront/home?idAffiliate=

Just added everything bellow to the cart for your site provided and it was about $90 more before shipping vs the site I am using. Thanks for the info on the flow rates I had been using http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/ca ... ulator.php to get an idea of what I needed.

RichardH wrote: A small point - that plug is a NEMA 14-50, which includes a 4th pole for neutral (allowing for a 120v tap). It's popular for ranges, dryers, and RVs (i.e., residential). In commercial settings, I've seen NEMA 6-50 used more - it's a similar 3-pole connector. Both will work; it's just a question of whether you need the unit to be portable (to residential or commercial?) and/or share the outlet with something that needs the neutral. If you go mobile, you'll probably end up with short adapter cables over time anyway.

I need the 14-50 for my motorcycle EVSE interface. I already found someone online using this outlet with the 250ex to confirm where wires need to be assigned on the outlet so I don't break it

The outlet is going just outside, literally, the breaker box.

RichardH wrote: Negotiate harder with Everlast.

Should I email them direct? I got those prices on amazon if I recall.

RichardH wrote: Buy your CK gear at mwsco.com. Crappy website; amazing prices. It's run by the same company as WeldFabulous.com

mwsco.com seems more expensive than weldfabulous on all Ck gear on my list but they do have a pyrex kit which seams reasonable priced. Are the pyrex cups preferred over the traditional Alumina cups?

RichardH wrote: Get a couple pair. As tradeoff for being thin/sensitive, they aren't rugged. Grab a pair of MIG gloves too, and a MIG tool - you'll use them for handling hot steel. (Plus, your welder does stick too.)

MIG tool? Google search only shows pliers is this what you mean? I will add more gloves to the mix.

@RichardH
Thanks for the info. I will step down to a 12' cable. I figured the extra length would be nice but I could see where it could easily turn into a toroidal inductor and do odd things. The Tungsten is indeed cheaper at your provided site and shipping is free for orders over $35

What would be the cost of locally bought 10# box of 4043 3/32 or 1/16? Shipping prices in list below for each.

As for the tank I will have to visit the local airgas to see what they can offer me. 250lbs is pretty heavy though >_< Will likely have to get a dolly just for the tank. I will add the mask to my list as I can't seem to find mine in the garage right now.

Ok new purchase list new items indicated by color

Weldfabulous
CK CK20-12SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 12' Flex. 3 pc SuperFlex $88.18
CK D200S Backcap Short. xref: 41V33 $2.43
CK 200M Backcap Medium (with O-Ring). xref: 41V35 $2.34
CK Worldwide SLWHAT-35QD SafeLoc Male Dinse 35 (1/2") $45.28
Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $291.91
Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $20.90 (qt 2 price indicated)
Tillman 34 Toughest Top Grain Cowhide MIG Welding Gloves, Medium $13.37
Weldcote Aluminum 4043 1/16" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $54.00 ($63.57 after shipping)
Weldcote Aluminum 4043 3/32" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $49.86 ($59.43 after shipping)
Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 3/32" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $23.38 ($32.95 after shipping)
Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 1/16" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $33.40 ($42.97 after shipping)
Ground shipping est with filler rods[/b] $61.75
Total with rods $686.80
Ground shipping est with filler rods $23.50 (-$38.25 or $9.57 extra per 10# box)
Total without rods $487.91

USAWeld
1/16" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $14.95
3/16" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $23.45
1/8" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $30.95
Pyrex Cup Kit for 9 & 20 Series TIG Torches $54.95 (I assume these will fit the CK20 torch above)
Shipping (free)
Total $124.30

Amazon
Pass & Seymour 3867CC5 Angle Plug Three Pole Four Wire 30-Amp/50-Amp 125-volt/250-volt $16.78
TIG Finger Heat Shield $14.99
Everlast PowerCool W300 Water Cooler $397.16 (prime)
2014 Everlast PowerTig 250EX AC DC TIG STICK Pulse welder 220/240 Volt Inverter-Based AC DC $1550.00
Shipping (free)
Total w/Tax $2,003.77

HarborFreight
4" Angle Grinder $21.99
4" Metal Grinding/Cut off/Flap wheel Assorted set 10pc $21.98 (qt 2 price indicated)
3" Mini Tool Grinder/Polisher $28.99
4" Wire Wheel With 1/4" Shank $4.98 (qt 2 price indicated)
3" Bench Grinding Wheel Assorted Set 2pc $7.99
Adjustable Steel Welding Table $79.99
4 Piece Magnetic Welding Holders $4.99
4-3/4'' Multipurpose Magnet Holder $4.00 (qt 2 price indicated)
6-1/4" Multipurpose Magnet Holder $6.98 (qt 2 price indicated)
8 in. MIG Welding Pliers $7.99
Total W/Tax $204.61

LWS(TBD)
200 or 300cu tank filled $250
10# boxes of filler rod $???

homedepot
3M 6297pa1-a Mold & Lead Particle Respirator, Medium $25
Total W/ Tax $26.25

Misc things I haven't accounted for $100 (like adapters for the torch water cooling to greenbox cooler)

Total given above lists: $3295.76~$3395.76 So basically $3500

I didn't include any welding curtains as I plan on keeping my garage door cracked just enough to fit a fan under so neighbors can't see what I am doing.

I will send everlast an email to see if there is any deal they can make on ordering the water cooler + 250dx at the same time. I am assuming That is the way to go but we will see ^_^

Thanks for the help.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 9:53 am**

I've been getting my tungsten from these guys.
http://www.weldingcity.com/tungsten-ele ... ated-blue/
They have been fast and friendly with good service and great prices.
Nothing against HTP but weldingcity.com is a little cheaper. The more sources
the better I always say.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 10:07 am**

Foot pedals
I too have a Everlast 250EX ande OE foot pedal. took it apart and blue printed,opened hole/slot for on/off sw,adjusted belt for poteniometer to track straight,and to have full liner sweep,adjusted spring pressure to suit and installed heel brace to put pivot under the arch of foot like Miller pedal. Works great. I have done this on every pedal for all my welders over 30yrs of MIllers,Lincolns etc.
I have added heavier,bigger base weights,narrowed lightened, moved pivot points, individualized each pedal to suit my style.
Making my pedals to my style is one less thing to think about as I switch welders. I match pedal height ,throw and angle to suit how my ankle works along with matching spring presures.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 11:18 am**

rake wrote:I've been getting my tungsten from these guys.
Nothing against HTP but weldingcity.com is a little cheaper. The more sources
the better I always say.

Thanks for the info. After shipping is applied the same tungsten order is $64.68 vs HTP at $69.35 which saves me enough to almost afford a veggie burrito at Chipotle.

@rick9345
Thanks for the info, stock foot pedal it is as I am too familiar with customizing things I don't like ^_^

Just noticed no wirebrushes are on my list. They are fairly cheap though so I will pick a couple up when I don't feel like using the 4" wire wheel.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 3:09 pm**

Callmeburton wrote:Are the pyrex cups preferred over the traditional Alumina cups?

What would be the cost of locally bought 10# box of 4043 3/32 or 1/16? Shipping prices in list below for each.

Pyrex, from what I've read are not preferred over traditional alumina cups simply because if you drop them, they can break. That being said I do own pyrex cups, but of course have more alumina cups than pyrex. So long as the cups/collet bodies you are using have mesh screens in them, they will function identically (allowing you to save shielding gas by turning down the flow a tad, and better coverage for a given tungsten stick-out length).

We don't live where you live, so it is likely that only you will be able to tell us what a "local" price to you would be.

As for tungsten prices, yea weldingcity is cheaper than HTP, but I have saved over $300 in stuff by using HTP exclusively lately. They can beat pricing on pretty much everything (if they sell it), if you order a good quantity/frequently from them. PaulP@htpweld.com is the email you need to be using. Anything CK, they carry or can get usually, and they will most likely be cheaper if you place a good size order. I guess you can say, that by me using HTP as my go-to place for most stuff, I'v been able to afford quite a few extra burritos.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 3:23 pm**

weldin mike 27 wrote:Hey,
Richard,
A big 5 stars for taking the time and making considerable effort to help a new member. My hat is off to you sir.
Mick

Thanks! I've recently built my TIG setup, so a lot of this is still fresh for me.

Callmeburton wrote: Just added everything bellow to the cart for your site provided and it was about $90 more before shipping vs the site I am using.

Wow! Do share! mwsco.com is remarkably cheaper than most of the popular sites, so if you've found one even cheaper that's a real find.

Callmeburton wrote: I need the 14-50 for my motorcycle EVSE interface. I already found someone online using this outlet with the 250ex to confirm where wires need to be assigned on the outlet so I don't break it The outlet is going just outside, literally, the breaker box.

No problem - either one will work fine, and this is a perfect reason to use the receptacle you picked.

Callmeburton wrote:
RichardH wrote: Negotiate harder with Everlast.
Should I email them direct? I got those prices on amazon if I recall.

Yes. Buy direct. Their product web pages have a link to make an offer, or you can e-mail sales@everlastgenerators.com. Oleg is the owner, and often negotiates the special requests. Also, they're in California and won't collect sales tax for other states like Amazon will. Between the taxes and negotiation, you'll likely save about 20%, even after factoring shipping.

Callmeburton wrote:
RichardH wrote: Buy your CK gear at mwsco.com. Crappy website; amazing prices. It's run by the same company as WeldFabulous.com
mwsco.com seems more expensive than weldfabulous on all Ck gear on my list but they do have a pyrex kit which seams reasonable priced. Are the pyrex cups preferred over the traditional Alumina cups?

That's surprising. They're usually at least 5% cheaper than WeldFabulous; I wonder if they're catching on to the pricing gap.

People like the Pyrex kits primarily because of the visibility, but a) they're only available in 2 cup sizes, b) Pyrex doesn't hold up to heat, so treat them carefully; that said, I use a Pyrex by default all the time.

I will suggest that if you go down the CK Gas Saver / Pyrex path, you just standardize on them for your gas lenses - all those cups are slip-on fittings instead of the screw-on threads. Otherwise you'll end up with two sets of gas lenses and cups. Flip side is that you can get standard screw-on alumina cups on eBay for amazing prices, while the Gas Saver slip-on cups are only available from CK (but they're much slimmer).

Callmeburton wrote:
RichardH wrote: Get a couple pair. As tradeoff for being thin/sensitive, they aren't rugged. Grab a pair of MIG gloves too, and a MIG tool - you'll use them for handling hot steel. (Plus, your welder does stick too.)
MIG tool? Google search only shows pliers is this what you mean? I will add more gloves to the mix.

Yes, MIG tool = welding pliers. They work as well as anything else, and if you ever do MIG they have some specialized features. Having a good spring in them is important when you're wearing heavy gloves.

Callmeburton wrote: What would be the cost of locally bought 10# box of 4043 3/32 or 1/16? Shipping prices in list below for each.

Here's what I've paid locally for filler rod (per pound, 10# box):
ER70S2 $2.50
4043 $2.50-3.10
308L $8
309L $7
Silicon Bronze $16 (1# pack)

Not to say that you won't find a good price online with shipping, but I found that there wasn't enough savings there. I try to give local folks the business whenever it's not crazy, because I want them around when I need something yesterday.

Welding supplies and gases seem to be a high mark-up item, especially at the big corporate guys like Praxair, Air Products, and Airgas. So, build a spreadsheet and shop around. (I suspect you've already got one going here.)

Callmeburton wrote: As for the tank I will have to visit the local airgas to see what they can offer me. 250lbs is pretty heavy though >_< Will likely have to get a dolly just for the tank. I will add the mask to my list as I can't seem to find mine in the garage right now.

You can roll the tank on its corner for short distances, but it'll mark a trail. Safety warnings, in case this is new territory for you… If you get a dolly to move it around, be sure to strap the tank to it before you move. Be super conscious about never having the cylinder in a position that it could fall over (like, lay it down before you step away), and always have the safety cap on it for transport. If the valve gets snapped off, the cylinder becomes a 250-lb bullet.

Callmeburton wrote: Ok new purchase list new items indicated by color

Weldfabulous

CK CK20-12SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 12' Flex. 3 pc SuperFlex $88.18

CK D200S Backcap Short. xref: 41V33 $2.43

CK 200M Backcap Medium (with O-Ring). xref: 41V35 $2.34

CK Worldwide SLWHAT-35QD SafeLoc Male Dinse 35 (1/2") $45.28

Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $291.91

Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $20.90 (qt 2 price indicated)

Tillman 34 Toughest Top Grain Cowhide MIG Welding Gloves, Medium $13.37

Weldcote Aluminum 4043 1/16" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $54.00 ($63.57 after shipping)

Weldcote Aluminum 4043 3/32" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $49.86 ($59.43 after shipping)

Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 3/32" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $23.38 ($32.95 after shipping)

Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 1/16" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $33.40 ($42.97 after shipping)

Ground shipping est with filler rods[/b] $61.75

Total with rods $686.80

Ground shipping est with filler rods $23.50 (-$38.25 or $9.57 extra per 10# box)

Total without rods $487.91

I think you can do better on the filler rod at a local supply. They absorb the shipping cost across huge orders, at freight prices. Plus, the base prices I'm seeing are a lot lower than yours.
If you think you will be doing any fine work, consider also 0.045" filler and 0.040" tungstens (and associated collets, lenses, etc.).

On the gloves, I think Tillman makes 3 different styles, with different hides for better durability vs. better sensitivity. I like the 30 for sensitivity; since you're getting 2 pair, perhaps get one of the other styles and see which one you like better.

I use different gloves when handling sharp / hot material, so the lightweight TIG gloves last longer - these are fire rescue / extrication gloves, with heat-resistant palms and cut-proof material. (I had hopes of using them for TIG, but they're not sensitive enough and the heat-proofing is all on the palm-side, not the back-side where I need it on my torch hand.)
http://www.thefirestore.com/store/produ ... Gas-Glove/

Callmeburton wrote:
USAWeld

1/16" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $14.95

3/16" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $23.45

1/8" 2% Lanthanated Tungsten-10 Pack $30.95

Pyrex Cup Kit for 9 & 20 Series TIG Torches $54.95 (I assume these will fit the CK20 torch above)

Shipping (free)

Total $124.30

Oscar rightly points out that WeldingCity.com has tungsten even cheaper than HTP (USAweld.com). It was nagging me that I couldn't remember their name.

And as he points out, if you know the low-end price for CK parts, it sounds like HTP will beat those deals if you negotiate (but you won't find those prices on their site).

Callmeburton wrote:
Amazon

Pass & Seymour 3867CC5 Angle Plug Three Pole Four Wire 30-Amp/50-Amp 125-volt/250-volt $16.78

TIG Finger Heat Shield $14.99

Everlast PowerCool W300 Water Cooler $397.16 (prime)

2014 Everlast PowerTig 250EX AC DC TIG STICK Pulse welder 220/240 Volt Inverter-Based AC DC $1550.00

Shipping (free)

Total w/Tax $2,003.77

HarborFreight

4" Angle Grinder $21.99

4" Metal Grinding/Cut off/Flap wheel Assorted set 10pc $21.98 (qt 2 price indicated)

3" Mini Tool Grinder/Polisher $28.99

4" Wire Wheel With 1/4" Shank $4.98 (qt 2 price indicated)

3" Bench Grinding Wheel Assorted Set 2pc $7.99

Adjustable Steel Welding Table $79.99

4 Piece Magnetic Welding Holders $4.99

4-3/4'' Multipurpose Magnet Holder $4.00 (qt 2 price indicated)

6-1/4" Multipurpose Magnet Holder $6.98 (qt 2 price indicated)

8 in. MIG Welding Pliers $7.99

Total W/Tax $204.61

FYI, when I said wire wheel on the angle grinder, I really meant wire cup. These usually mount 5/8" thread on the angle grinder. Unless you're doing fairly small areas, I don't think a 1/4" shank tool is going to have the oomph (technical term). However, a coarse 1" flap wheel on a 1/4" shank will help clean inside tubing for joint prep.

Since you're a Harbor Freight fan (as am I), you'll find this useful:
http://slickdeals.net/f/1276399-harbor- ... pon-thread

The 90-degree magnetic holders are very handy for steel; useless for aluminum. I've got 4-8 in each of the 3 sizes, but probably don't use more than 4 at a time. Don't weld too close or you'll melt them; tack, then move them away.

Welding clamps - I'd get 1-2 of HF's 3-pack, which don't have swivel tips; then I've got ~4 apiece of the 6" and 11" clamps with swivels. Then a couple of their L-shaped clamps. The 11" clamps get the most use, with the 6" being good for smaller pieces, but sometimes the swivel tips do get in the way.
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-lo ... -6002.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-swi ... 39534.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-sw ... 39535.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-we ... 30024.html

Sharpening - there are several solutions for diamond wheel tungsten sharpening using HF parts. For one, they sell a 4" diamond disc that fits on a bench grinder. For non-diamond, they have a mini bench grinder with a flex shaft that can be used to hold the tungsten.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-diamo ... 69656.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/diamond-co ... 69657.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/bench-grin ... 43533.html

Callmeburton wrote:
LWS(TBD)

200 or 300cu tank filled $250

10# boxes of filler rod $???

homedepot

3M 6297pa1-a Mold & Lead Particle Respirator, Medium $25

Total W/ Tax $26.25

FYI, there's nothing special about the filters on that respirator, but they're very low-profile (so they fit under a welding mask), and the respirator is much more effective & comfortable vs. a dust mask. Jody commented on it in one of his videos, and for $25 there wasn't a reason to keep looking for other options.

Cheers,
Richard

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 3:28 pm**

Callmeburton wrote:Thanks for the info, stock foot pedal it is as I am too familiar with customizing things I don't like ^_^

Just noticed no wirebrushes are on my list. They are fairly cheap though so I will pick a couple up when I don't feel like using the 4" wire wheel.

Yup, and just like the grinding tools, you need separate sets for working on aluminum, stainless, and everything else (steel). For aluminum and stainless, the brushes need to be stainless. A few sets from HF will get you started.

FWIW, I have the stock foot pedal on an Everlast 210EXT, and while I'm sure there are better ones, I have no complaints yet. i.e., no reason not to start there and improve as needed.

Cheers,
Richard

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 3:50 pm**

Oh, and a couple other goodies…

Torchholder - this is pretty essential in my book:
http://www.harborfreight.com/magnetic-m ... -3642.html
This one's for MIG, but it'll work for TIG. Other shops offer a TIG-specific one, but probably not for HF prices (this one costs 2x after shipping).
http://www.amazon.com/Washington-Magnet ... B00I4Z55CG

Magnetic work clamp - this is silly for home use, but they're pretty cool. A good Christmas list or Father's Day item.
http://www.amazon.com/Magswitch-Ground- ... B001VAL994
They come in lighter-gauge / cheaper versions. (Be forewarned: buying the wire, the lugs, and the tool to crimp the lugs is not a trivial cost, either.)

Safety glasses - wear them under your mask, so you don't forget to put them on when grinding.

Doo rag or beanie - a washable layer between your head and your mask's headgear. You're gonna sweat it up. They're cheap, so get a pair. (The knot in the back of doo rags gets in the way of my headgear. I've got a couple beanies on order to try instead.)

And you don't have a welding jacket on your list. You don't need much spark protection with TIG, except the occasional bad contamination or when grinding, but you do need head-to-toe UV shielding. I toss on a long-sleeved denim-style shirt most of the time, but I also use this cheap / lightweight jacket:
http://store.mwsco.com/storefront/Revco ... e-P-616169
You don't need leathers like with MIG or stick.

Cheers,
Richard

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 5:41 pm**

Good job Richard!

Just a bit of trial and error experience from an old fart.

When it comes to cutoff wheels in an angle grinder for steel I've tried about all of them.
Steer clear of those cheapies at the Harbor Freight. They don't last for shit
and tend explode without warning. Got one in the forehead once. (hurt like hell too)
Best ones I've found so far are the Metabo Slicers. I get them from Fastenal.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 5:43 pm**

What a guy!!!

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 6:30 pm**

RichardH wrote: On the gloves, I think Tillman makes 3 different styles, with different hides for better durability vs. better sensitivity. I like the 30 for sensitivity; since you're getting 2 pair, perhaps get one of the other styles and see which one you like better.

FYI, when I said wire wheel on the angle grinder, I really meant wire cup.

Welding clamps - I'd get 1-2 of HF's 3-pack, which don't have swivel tips; then I've got ~4 apiece of the 6" and 11" clamps with swivels. Then a couple of their L-shaped clamps. The 11" clamps get the most use, with the 6" being good for smaller pieces, but sometimes the swivel tips do get in the way.

I will add a different set to my list for the gloves. I actually already went out and bought some stuff today and one of the things was two 4" angle grinder SS wire disks >_<

I didn't think of welding clamps so I will have to add them to my list as well.

RichardH wrote: Torchholder - this is pretty essential in my book:

Safety glasses - wear them under your mask, so you don't forget to put them on when grinding.
Doo rag or beanie

I got the doo rag covered. As a motorcyclist who rides year round in all conditions they are a must.
Added torch holder to my weldfabulous list.

So this is what I picked up today while out getting groceries. I would have picked up the other items you listed if I saw your post before then.

From HomeDepot:

14-50R outlet
3M P100 Mold and Lead Respirator $24.97

I didn't pick up the box, the conduit, wire etc as I forgot to take my panel off before I left to see where I could put it, and what breakers I need to buy >_< Figured the outlet was good enough for one run.

From HF:

45661 3pack of wire brushes $4.99
94071 Mini Tool Grinder 3in $28.99
39718 2 x wire brush-steel $4.99ea
67642 2 x 4" 36G flap disk $3.69ea
47568 4" grinding/cutoff wheel 10 pack $10.99
47568 Diamond rotary grinding disks $9.99
30754 Grounding Block 4" magnet $5.99 (saw it on youtube)
1938 2 x 4-3/4'' Multipurpose Magnet Holder $2.00ea
96122 2 x 4" crimped beveled wire brush $3.99ea
1939 2 x 6-1/4" Multipurpose Magnet Holder $3.49ea
93898 4 Piece Magnetic Welding Holders $4.99
33836 8 In. MIG Welding Pliers $7.99
91222 4" Angle Grinder $21.99
Total $141.87 after tax

They didn't have the welding table there >_< Going to have to order it online or have them send it to the store. I am going to order the other basic items I cannot get locally less the filler rod till I hear back from everlast.

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 7:02 pm**

rake wrote:Good job Richard!

Just a bit of trial and error experience from an old fart.
When it comes to cutoff wheels in an angle grinder for steel I've tried about all of them.
Steer clear of those cheapies at the Harbor Freight. They don't last for shit
and tend explode without warning. Got one in the forehead once. (hurt like hell too)
Best ones I've found so far are the Metabo Slicers. I get them from Fastenal.

Oh, yeah. I'm very selective about what I'll buy at HF. Abrasives is an area it's not worth your time to go cheap - not just because of safety, but because they wear out so damn fast you waste time changing consumables. But it's hard for them to screw up hand tools and air tools. HF stuff isn't heavy duty, but it gets the job done for most DIY grade tasks.

When I'm grinding, I actually prefer a full-face shield, not just safeties. Like you, I've been hit in the face with stuff enough to be cautious. On that note, this is a great shield for the money, but only available online:
http://t.homedepot.com/p/MSA-Safety-Wor ... 202984422/

However, the purple 3M one they sell in-store is crap - the headgear fails at the hinge long before the mask is worn out.

Cheers,
Richard

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 7:09 pm**

I completely forgot about this, next time you're at Home Depot...
http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... f=5&t=4398

Posted: **Sun May 25, 2014 7:13 pm**

Ok just ordered the following:

From Weldingcity

2.0% Lanthanated 0.040" (1.0mm) Pack of 10 $5.50
2.0% Lanthanated 1/16" (1.6mm) Pack of 10 $9.40
2.0% Lanthanated 3/32" (2.4mm) Pack of 10 $18.90
2.0% Lanthanated 1/8" (3.2mm) Pack of 10 $30.40
Total after shipping $71.21

From usaweld

Pyrex Cup Kit for 9 & 20 Series TIG Torches $54.95 (total since free shipping)

From Weldfabulous

Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $291.91
CK D200S Backcap Short. xref: 41V33 $2.43
CK 200M Backcap Medium (with O-Ring). xref: 41V35 $2.34
CK Worldwide SLWHAT-35QD SafeLoc Male Dinse 35 (1/2")
CK CK20-12SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 12-1/2' Flex. SuperFlex $45.28
Tillman 30 Pearl Top Grain Pigskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $10.74
Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $10.45
Tillman 34 Toughest Top Grain Cowhide MIG Welding Gloves, Medium $13.37
Magnetic Tig Torch Stand $10.80
CK 2A4GS Cup Alumina (1/4" x 1-9/32"). 2 Series Gas Saver $1.65
CK 2A6GS Cup Alumina (3/8" x 1-9/32"). 2 Series Gas Saver $1.65
CK 2A7GS Cup Alumina (7/16" x 1-9/32"). 2 Series Gas Saver $1.65
CK 2A8GS Cup Alumina (1/2" x 1-9/32"). 2 Series Gas Saver $1.65
CK 2A5GS Cup Alumina (5/16" x 1-9/32"). 2 Series Gas Saver $1.65
CK 212HCLV Hose Cover 10' Leather w/. Velcro (3-3/4") $28.77
Shipping $26.90
Total $539.42

Several items in the list above are on back order so I suspect it might be a full week before they are shipped >_<

Posted: **Thu May 29, 2014 6:34 pm**

For those looking / hoping for updates I have not heard anything from Everlast now for 4 days since filling out their online form. And in those 4 days the price for the 250ex has went up $100 on amazon >_<

Good times.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2014 8:40 pm**

Hmm. If nothing, just give them a ring directly...

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