[geraldsd]

I have recently rediscovered Tig Welding. I am doing hobby gunsmithing and am interested in a machine. I have done some research and am thinking that a "suitcase " type of machine that operates on 110 or 220 is probably suitable for what I need. I might weld on something as big as 3/16" and could make sure that I was plugged in to 220 if I did, otherwise thinner or small beads will be the ticket. I am wondering what might be a good welder to get started on. I have a Bridgeport Mill and a South Bend Lathe and an affinity for American products. But I also have an open mind...Value for the dollar. I am not against used, either...thanks for your assistance...

[AKweldshop]

Are you going to be welding only steels???
If your welding only steels, you can get a DC tig machine.
I would look at a 150 to 180 amp machine, they would be = nice little machine for steels.
But if your going to be welding aluminum, that's another story.
Welcome to the forum, and let us know what materials your gonna be welding.
OBTW,
Have you tig welded before??
If you have never welded before, there will be a long learning curve before you can weld gun parts.

~John

[geraldsd]

Back in the day...25 years ago I used heli-arc for chromoly. I would like to weld stainless, carbon steel, aluminum, and eventually titanium. I was a good gas welder on exhaust systems.

[Oscar]

Back in the day...25 years ago I used heli-arc for chromoly. I would like to weld stainless, carbon steel, aluminum, and eventually titanium. I was a good gas welder on exhaust systems.

For aluminum you need lots of amperage. It steps up the machine class a few notches. What thickness aluminum is now the real question, and what is your realistic budget?

[paul_s]

Welcome to the forum.

[AKweldshop]

Yes,
If your welding that range of materials, you'll need and AC/DC machine. Pretty high tech too.
I'd look at a Dynasty 200DX if your max aluminum is a 1/4 inch. bigger if your welding thicker than 1/4.
Or you can go the Everlast route. Everlast 200DX, same type machine as the Miller, at about 1/4 the price.
If your that serious into welding, you need to drop some coin.
If you go for the "lower grade"(as not to offend anyone), you, well, never know. It's gambling in my humble opinion.
If you go for the "higher grade" machine, you won't be saying, Man I wish I had bought some cheap piece of junk.

Lets here some more opinions and thoughts on the matter.

~John

[Superiorwelding]

First welcome to the forum!
Not knowing your exact budget and how thick your Alum will be and also not knowing how much welding you would actually be doing I would recommend either a Dynasty of Syncrowave. Both have pros and cons but either would be a excellent choice for what you want to do. You will be able to pick up either of these models used at very fair prices as well. You could also choose from the Maxstar line up, however these are DC only.
Dynasty 200- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig ... del=M00118
Syncrowave 250- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig ... del=M15601
If you want a suitcase type, look into the Miller Multimatic 200. This will allow you to do all three processes and will allow for portability. I have personally tested this machine and will say for what it was designed for, it does it well.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mul ... del=M00361
There are those here that have Everlast machines and seem to really like their machines, hopefully they will chime in as I have no experience this this brand.
If nothing else, this will give you some ideas.
-Jonathan

[ljdm1956]

So far the Everlast multi-process (Tig Stick Plasma) has worked just fine. 200amp welding, 50amp cutting covers a lot of jobs. Only drawback I have is DC Tig only. Other models do have AC Tig. Good value for the price.

[Oscar]

First welcome to the forum!
Not knowing your exact budget and how thick your Alum will be and also not knowing how much welding you would actually be doing I would recommend either a Dynasty of Syncrowave. Both have pros and cons but either would be a excellent choice for what you want to do. You will be able to pick up either of these models used at very fair prices as well. You could also choose from the Maxstar line up, however these are DC only.
Dynasty 200- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig ... del=M00118
Syncrowave 250- http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig ... del=M15601
If you want a suitcase type, look into the Miller Multimatic 200. This will allow you to do all three processes and will allow for portability. I have personally tested this machine and will say for what it was designed for, it does it well.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mul ... del=M00361
There are those here that have Everlast machines and seem to really like their machines, hopefully they will chime in as I have no experience this this brand.
If nothing else, this will give you some ideas.
-Jonathan

Don't forget the HTP Invertig221 dual-voltage. In my opinion, even though I've never used a Miller Dynasty 200DX, it is very much in the same class judging from the specifications of each and currently owning an Invertig221. Each machine has a few things that the other doesn't, and both are very capable.

[Superiorwelding]

Oscar,
I would actually like to test a HTP as I have heard good things about these machines as well. Thanks for bringing HTP to the table.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

I never thought of the HTP....
Would fit your needs pretty good.

[geraldsd]

Thank you gentlemen for your replys. I really can't hardly imagine welding on aluminum that is thicker than 1/4". As soon as I say that though, I will need to. It certainly won't be an everyday thing. Does welding titanium pose special problems? I hope to ultimately get a license to manufacture suppressors. For these Al and Ti are both preferred metals due to weight, especially Ti. By the way, I will spend what I have to. I can probably spend as much as 3K. But, of course, would like to spend less. I will look and the Everlast as well and the Invertig...

Thanks again!

[RichardH]

Does welding titanium pose special problems? I hope to ultimately get a license to manufacture suppressors. For these Al and Ti are both preferred metals due to weight, especially Ti.

I recall Jody's got a couple videos on Titanium. If not him, I'm pretty sure the guys at weld.com shot a couple videos on-site at a Ti fabricator. Apparently trailing coverage and back-purge are a big enough deal that it can require using a purge chamber, or at least a trailing purge setup. (CK makes both - a clip-on trailing gas lens, and a collapsible purge tent.)

What's involved in getting a license to make suppressors? You're probably familiar with oil filter suppressors; I guess I shouldnt have been surprised to find that such a simple male/female thread adapter for them would require a suppressor permit.

Cheers,
Richard

[Bill Beauregard]

Has anyone actually seen a machine nameplate with the exact number 110 or 220? My geographic territory is small, but I've dealt with machines from all over. Every power company, or generator I'm aware of supplies 120 and 240 volt power. With voltage loss in small or long conductors, most machines will still function at 220, but that is not ideal. Efficiency is lost at lower voltage. Precious energy is wasted on heat, and magnetic field. I don't believe I've seen a machine wanting 110 Volts.
Every beginner wants a 110 volt welder. I feel this is their first mistake. A machine that welds only very small or thin metal is very restrictive. If you are able to rent a welder, do so. After one day you should know whether you want to continue or not. If you want to weld, buy a welder. Don't limit yourself to a machine only able to weld paper clips together! Buy American, they last, are backed by people who will keep them working. You'll never regret owning a Miller or Lincoln. If you absolutely can't spend much money, go to Craigs list or other sources and buy used. Ask on forums for advice on specific machines. Stop even considering 110 or 120 volt machines. It's a welder for crying out loud! No beginner ever buys a 110 volt electric range, or water heater. A welder under 10,000 watt isn't very useful. Delivering 10,000 watts to the torch is best done with 240 or higher voltage. I looked at a Millermatic 140 yesterday rated at 2,400 watt. It says it will weld 3/16 steel, I have my doubts. A special installed outlet on dedicated line is needed. For less cost you can install a 240 volt outlet with the same cable. GFCI protection will not be needed to comply with NAEC, your welder can use 4,800 watts. Just a little more money buys a circuit capable of 7,200 watts.

[Otto Nobedder]

Gerald,

For some recommened reading on Ti, have a read of the second post here:

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... =19&t=4731

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

I've worked all over the eastern half of the US. I've found that different parts of the power grid have slightly different standards. Residential voltage may measure 110/220, 115/230, or 120/240, depending on the provider. Industrial power follows the same pattern, with 460 three-phase, for example, measuring 440, 460, or 480.

(This makes an amperage recommendation for a basic welder a bit of a crap-shoot. Without digitally controlled output, 100A at the dial could be plus or minus 5A or more at the stinger, so a recommendation is just a starting point.)

The important thing for someone buying a welder to realize, is that a machine that says "220" will work fine on "240", and vice-versa.

Steve S

[Bill Beauregard]

I've worked all over the eastern half of the US. I've found that different parts of the power grid have slightly different standards. Residential voltage may measure 110/220, 115/230, or 120/240, depending on the provider. Industrial power follows the same pattern, with 460 three-phase, for example, measuring 440, 460, or 480.

(This makes an amperage recommendation for a basic welder a bit of a crap-shoot. Without digitally controlled output, 100A at the dial could be plus or minus 5A or more at the stinger, so a recommendation is just a starting point.)

The important thing for someone buying a welder to realize, is that a machine that says "220" will work fine on "240", and vice-versa.

Steve S

I haven't seen a welder or other machine except one made in China labeled 220 or 110. I did see a Chinese motor nameplate labeled 220. The same motor had cast iron manufacturer name in two places, with two different spellings. A Chinese mold maker may not know what a word says, but I would expect him to notice he has spelled it different!

It troubles me that too many people think welding is very hard because the only equipment they have used is junk! Every beginner in the world wants a "110" welder China is becoming wealthy on the US appetite for "110" welders that are little useful as anything but a paperweight! Even US built welders are terribly limited in their use.

[Otto Nobedder]

...It troubles me that too many people think welding is very hard because the only equipment they have used is junk! Every beginner in the world wants a "110" welder China is becoming wealthy on the US appetite for "110" welders that are little useful as anything but a paperweight! Even US built welders are terribly limited in their use.

True. Mostly.
I've used two 110v machines I've loved. Both inverters requiring 20A.

Miller has a 110V inverter (I've long since forgotten the model) that welds 1/8" xx10 and xx18 as well as any machine I've used short of an old copper-wound Lincoln engine-drive, with a good duty-cycle for the portability.

Esab has the Miniarc 95i that I've used for TIG in confined spaces. My luchbox isn't much smaller. More limited then the Miller, but I've TIGged 3/16 SS at 80A for an hour at a time without having duty-cycle issues. Scratch-start only, but stable arc.

These, however, are (or were at the time) $1000+ machines, not found at Tractor Supply.

Even with the imports, you get what you pay for, and a $100 welding machine will only discourage a newbie from learning to weld. I've used a few of the cheap machines to help someone out, and with 30 years' experience, I find them frustrating. I can't imagine a beginner writing a review about how easy it was to learn on...

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

I've got $00.2 to add, quite a bit actually.
My outlets read 250v on a voltmeter.
I can run any 6-50p off it, with a 50amp breaker, and I've run over 30, 220 "things" off it.

So,
220, 230, 240, and 250 are still the same things. IMO

As to the 110 subject.
I've used severa l110v welding thingy's....
First,
I've run a Lincoln Weld-Pak HD.
88amps of .035 fcaw, 2lb nr211.

Ran it for about 2years.
Paid $200 at Homeless Despot.
It was a welder.

Used it to weld miles of 1 1/4 galvi pipe, about 1/16 wall..... about 50lbs of wire. at $8 a lb.
It would weld maybe 10, 2 inch beads, then its yellow light on the front would come on, and the machine would quit welding.

Fan would still run.
I thought it had died at first.
So I shut it off and left, came back later and turned it back on. It welded.
That's thermal overload protection.
Came with the territory.

But, we all know,
A 115 mig is a 115 mig!!!!!!!!!
Right.
How many times on welding boards have we talked about the pros and cons of them???
Zillions!!


I beat that lincoln to a snot, then sold it with a free cart, and a 5 dollar helmet for $180.
Not to bad.

I've had two other 110 migs.
A Lincoln Nascar 135 Pro-Mig.
I gave $150 for it.
I had a bottle, so I hooked it up.
It was the wimpiest machine I'd ever used.
Couldn't weld worth snot.
Just so no one asks, I had it set-up correctly.
I sold it the next day for about $300

I saw a Hobart 135 on CL a while back for $150.
Went and got that.
Still have it.
I'll probably sell it here and buy a 210MVP.

That Hobart had one nice mig arc.
I used it to build those round bale feeders.


But,
After that long winded post obout 115 migs.
I finally have to get on topic with the OP.

115 tig and stick machines.

I had a Everlast PowerArc 160sth.
If you don't want to believe me I can show you pics...

I ran it on 115 and 220.
Wasn't the best tig arc I've used.
My Miller Maxstar 200 has one smooth tig arc.
Miller makes the best tig machine. IMO.
Get a Dynasty if you want AC, there 115 and 220.


I'm really sorry for the long post.
If you want to read up on 110 migs, here's the WW thread.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?20 ... -volt-migs

But if you want to hear more about 110 and 220 tig stick machines with AC/DC capabilty.
There's lots of routes.
Hang around.

~John

[TamJeff]

The only problem with choosing a macine based on say a limit of 1/4" aluminum as a maximum is mass. Take a bunch of 1/4" at once and you have a very effective heat sink.

Buying the machine is typically a one time expense. The difference in price between a higher performance machine initially is a misnomer in the grand scheme of welding. I know more people than not, who saved initially on a lower amp machine, only to end up with that cost again in other consumables and hardware in which to compensate. These forums are full of examples of people trying to do just that. Also, buying a machine around a stated maximum will, more often than not mean, that it's not going to be stable, or the least bit enjoyable at that maximum.

I have other welders bring me parts to weld all the time because their machine doesn't have the extra oompf. Typically only short by about 50 amps.

A higher amp machine is not going to work as hard as a lower one will over it's lifetime and will likely last a lot longer. I don't get the idea of a "budget" with regard to purchasing machines or tools as a one time expense. A machine is something you either buy outright or that you save for. Usually just meaning at worst, you will be saving a little longer. The only time I have seen a budget constraint make sense with a tool purchase of any kind tends to be industry specific. By that, meaning, a company that will only be welding thin wall tubing, tiny parts or sheet metal, that would be buying a shop full of equipment at a time that would tend to have all of those parameters figured in.

I had an idea what my maximums would 'probably' be when I bought my machine and added an extra 50 amps to it. It ended up being just enough and it's a 300 amp machine. But, I saved a ton with being able to use one torch setup, 3 basic collet/tungsten sizes and two types of shielding gas at most. It opened a bunch of doors to welding on the side otherwise, because there is not much that I cannot weld with regard to the general public's needs. I only need jump thru any hoops when it comes to heavy industrial applications, which would be likely beyond the scope of my other tools and equipment anyway.

[Bill Beauregard]

Or of course there is the example of me. I've had a lifelong strong opinion that cheap tools are a waste of money. Many years I've wanted to MIG and TIG weld. I rented a great MIG in 1979, wanted one forever. Everyone I know has a cheap MIG. I've tried several, without success. Finally, a few years ago my head was above water financially. I bought a Millermatic 252. It was all I hoped it would be. I can't imagine ever upgrading.
Last spring I expressed to my friend at my LWS the desire to buy a TIG. It seemed to me the price of admission to the TIG club was prohibitively high. He convinced me the Diversion 180 was all I would want. It does thin aluminum, should I want to do thicker, preheat, or use helium. At the time I wasn't aware helium was as scarce as it is. Preheat is a great way to contaminate the weld. I didn't know how useful adjustable balance is, how frequency influences weld, how big a handicap low duty cycle could be.
My friend at LWS got fired. I went to another LWS (40 miles) they tried to sell me a used Syncrowave 250. I ended up buying a big Dialarc, In its day, state of the art.
The nearest Miller dealer mentioned that Miller offered a demo program, a Miller Rep, and a State Airgas rep. brought a Dynasty 280 DX to try. I was hooked! Experts demonstrate the capabilities of the machine. I was hooked! I did buy a spool gun, but couldn't bring myself to spring for the Dynasty. By the time I couldn't stand it any longer, Airgas was several hundred more. When I tried to negotiate they got snotty.
Had I taken my own advice last April, I'd have saved a lot of money, time, and anguish.

[Oscar]

Buy American, they last, are backed by people who will keep them working. You'll never regret owning a Miller or Lincoln. If you absolutely can't spend much money, go to Craigs list or other sources and buy used.

tell that to the guy on welding web forum who bought a used Miller Dynasty 200DX, only to have the main board fail soon there-after and Miller wanting $1800 for the board. I think he said he paid somewhere in the mid $2k range for it used. It's a global marketplace nowadays, everything comes from everywhere. Warranty is also something to consider if it is backed by good people who go out of their way to help.

[AKweldshop]

Buy American, they last, are backed by people who will keep them working. You'll never regret owning a Miller or Lincoln. If you absolutely can't spend much money, go to Craigs list or other sources and buy used.

tell that to the guy on welding web forum who bought a used Miller Dynasty 200DX, only to have the main board fail soon there-after and Miller wanting $1800 for the board. I think he said he paid somewhere in the mid $2k range for it used. It's a global marketplace nowadays, everything comes from everywhere. Warranty is also something to consider if it is backed by good people who go out of their way to help.

Oscar,
You can't blame Miller.
He bought it used, that's gambling, you don't know what the machine has been through, or how its been abused.
Thats like buying a truck on CL, you get it home, drive it some than the engine burns up. head gasket, for example.
You couldn't know when you were looking at it at the sellers place.
Its a time bomb. you can't blame Miller.
The honest truth,
~John

[Oscar]

Buy American, they last, are backed by people who will keep them working. You'll never regret owning a Miller or Lincoln. If you absolutely can't spend much money, go to Craigs list or other sources and buy used.

tell that to the guy on welding web forum who bought a used Miller Dynasty 200DX, only to have the main board fail soon there-after and Miller wanting $1800 for the board. I think he said he paid somewhere in the mid $2k range for it used. It's a global marketplace nowadays, everything comes from everywhere. Warranty is also something to consider if it is backed by good people who go out of their way to help.

Oscar,
You can't blame Miller.
He bought it used, that's gambling, you don't know what the machine has been through, or how its been abused.
Thats like buying a truck on CL, you get it home, drive it some than the engine burns up. head gasket, for example.
You couldn't know when you were looking at it at the sellers place.
Its a time bomb. you can't blame Miller.
The honest truth,
~John

No where did I say I was blaming Miller. I agree 100% with you. I'm only giving another perspective since you had mentioned that one can't go wrong with Miller or Lincoln even if sourced used. My sole point is this: going used, anything can go wrong with any machine.

[Bill Beauregard]

I've got buildings full of machines bought used that turned into money pits. It's common to patch up a bad machine and sell it. I've bought a number of them. My ethics, and morals don't allow me to do it to others. Still some of us have no choice but to gamble on used equipment. Choose wisely my son.