Welding Tips and Tricks

What is the difference between a WP and PTA TIG Torch?

What about a 17 series vs a 9 series?

Thanks,

Bill

tradetek wrote:What is the difference between a WP and PTA TIG Torch?

What about a 17 series vs a 9 series?

Thanks,

Bill

bigger vs smaller (size and amperage). Different parts--not interchangeable. Cable is interchangeable though.

Bill,
If you can find some rhyme or reason to the numbering system of the Tig torch industry you'll be my hero. Some parts are interchangeable some are not, most will interchange with other brands but some not. We have to deal with the most nonsensical 'standard' of any part system that I've had to deal with in my life. Bigger numbers don't always translate to larger torches and so forth. the only standard as I think of it, is the cups are based in a 1/16" sizing, as in a number 8 refers to 8/16 or 1/2" and a #6 refers to 6/16 or 3/8".

Len

So "WP" and "PTA" don't mean anything significant?

And dumb question... which is bigger? A 17 or 9 series torch?

Thanks

Bill

tradetek wrote:So "WP" and "PTA" don't mean anything significant?

And dumb question... which is bigger? A 17 or 9 series torch?

Thanks

Bill

If you must know,
A 9 is a lot smaller than a 17.
A 17 can take more heat and amperage than the 9.
Larger head, handle, and cables.
Most times.

~John

Thanks John. Might have to look into those 9 series torches more... Most of what I'm doing will be in the 50-60 AMP range.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bill

tradetek wrote:Thanks John. Might have to look into those 9 series torches more... Most of what I'm doing will be in the 50-60 AMP range.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bill

Yes, if your in the 50-60amp range a 9 would work good for you...
9 air and 20 water cooled, are the same size torches.
The 9 is 125amps, and the 20 is 250amps.

Have a nice weekend yourself.

~John

tradetek wrote:Thanks John. Might have to look into those 9 series torches more... Most of what I'm doing will be in the 50-60 AMP range.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bill

there is also such a beast as an air-cooled 24 series. Uses different consumables, but it is even smaller than a 9 series and a tad ligher than the 9 series. Nice thing is that it uses the same size fitting for a 1pc gas cooled power cable lead as a 9 AND a 17 series. So with the same 1pc power cable, you can use all three size torches for different applications should the need arise.

I started the question simply to satisfy my need to better understand the things I play with

That being said, it would be nice to have a smaller torch simply because I'm most comfortable holding the torch with my forefinger wrapped around the back-cap. I'm using a button cap and a gas lens right now and really like it as compared to a standard collet/cup with a long cap.

One of my limiting factors is that my little LE v155-s uses valved torches. I've seen 9's with valves and with info that I might be able to use the same cable I might have to look into them more when I have a little spare cash that I can sneak past SWMBO...

Bill

You will definitely have to post your methods if you figure out how to get extra cash past the little woman. There's some advise we could all use.

Len


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bill,

delraydella has worked out a "remote" gas valve for his torch. Set up like a foot-pedal, just to turn on and off the gas.

Just a thought...

Steve S

I'm okay with the valve for the gas. My TIG unit is lift start which works well for me because I'm disabled and have nerve damage in my back that affects my ability to maintain the position of my feet as well as the fact that I sort of shake/twitch my right leg and foot most of the time... and yes, I avoid driving unless I absolutely have to, which is scary because SWMBO scares the hell of me now that she is in the left seat. I prefer riding with my 18 year old daughter!

I have the whip to kill the arc pretty much down and my motion brings my torch back quick enough to shield the end of my weld that as a crappy newb welder, I don't see much difference in the oxidation at the end of a weld vs the beginning.

I've just never held a pencil in the "normal" way. I think it is a result of having 2 left handed parents when I'm right handed

If you hold your hand in a way that you would grip a pistol and then sit the crease of the knuckle of your thumb down on the top/side of a pencil and rest the front of the pencil in the space between the tips of your index finger and middle finger, that would give you an idea of how I hold a pencil. So... I find it most comfortable and better for me to control the torch if I hold the torch head in a sort of similar way. My right index finger can get hot at times so I started wearing a MIG glove on my right hand but wear a TIG glove on my left. My personal duty cycle is much shorter than my welders when working on my recent trailer hitchin' post that is mostly 3/16th, 1/4, and some 3/8th plate and tube.



I started this with SMAW, but finished with TIG after figuring out that I could TIG it faster than I could stick, clean, fix, clean and maybe fix some more when using SMAW... and don't even get me started on slag inclusions...

Different strokes for different folks. Right?

Bill

Slag incusions???
Tig being better than Stick???
You got it wrong man.
We need to work this out.
You can't go on living with stick welding.
~John

I think my OCD likes the way I can see the puddles form on each piece of metal and then flow together and control how the puddle moves the direction that I want it with TIG.

I can see A puddle with stick, I just can't see that it is melting both pieces of metal together the way I can with TIG. And I have even less experience with SMAW than I do TIG so I know that my technique sucks. I have watched probably every video that both Jody and Lanse have put out there, but I still doubt that I'll ever like SMAW.

Bill

Well,
I'm a better stick weldor than a tig weldor
Your the opposite.
Tig weldors make more money.
You win.

If you need any help with stick, Get some 1/8 7018's and some scrap 1/4inch steel.
Set your Invertec to stick soft and about 130amps.
Get some pics up.
I'll try and give you some pointers.

Best,
~John

Don't let some "perceived" disability get you.

I shake like a dog crapping a peach pit, am half-blind, and TIG for a living.

I'm ASME certified....

You're only as disabled as you let people convince you...

Steve S

@AK - Next time I look to do some stick, I think I will pick up some 7018, but I mainly plan to work with 16 gauge and thinner, so I've never really been focused on stick.

@Otto - I've been dealing with medical issues since I was drowned in Mexico at the age of 10 by a bunch of Mexican Boy Scouts on an international Boy Scout camping trip. Go figure...

Long story short, I have a generalized seizure disorder (similar to epilepsy but not epilepsy), I was diagnosed with degenerative disk disorder in my back at the age of 20, and have had 2 back surgeries along with more cortisone injections than I can count (literally, I gave up on counting them years ago...). To top it all off, I have Asperger's Syndrome which is a high functioning form of Autism and my son has Autism and is pretty low functioning from a social standpoint but is a genius with an IQ of 157.

I use disability as a word, not a shield. I've always just looked at the obstacles that life has put in my path and then found a new route around them. I've been successful until recently, but the last issue sort of did me in because I can't sit or stand for more than about 2 hours, generally per day... Combine all that with a recent diagnosis of "Mild Cognitive Impairment" (basically a very early form of Alzheimer's) and it's looking pretty likely that I'm going to get approved for Social Security Disability Income, but if I don't I have good disability coverage through my employer and bought up from 50% to 66% of my salary so we are doing okay. Fortunately the wife wanted to go back to work anyway, she was just expecting to use the money she earned as mad money instead of having to make up a little of what we need beyond my disability before she can start thinking about what her nails and hair looks like

On the plus side, I'm 44 and if I have a "mid-life crisis" in the next couple of years, I won't remember it so no worries here

Heck, I won't even remember making this post in a couple of days. That is what makes forums like this one so nice for me, because I can go back and read through an entire thread before I say or ask something, but forgive me if sometimes it sounds like I'm repeating myself or asking the same questions... oh and the occasional "inappropriate" outburst...

I'm praying for you man.
Good luck and hang in there.
Don't worry if some of us guys get out of hand, we all have our bad days.


16ga huh??
Well, Otto can teach you how to weld 18ga vertical uphill with 1/8 7018....
Otto, can you do that again and get me a pic???

~John

Bill,

You've touched me.

My wife suffers petit mal seizures on a regular basis. She used to suffer grand-mal seizures, but overcame them with biofeedback.

I have never considered that either of us may have aspects of Asperger's, though my wife has an IQ of 128 (WISC-R), and mine is 134(WISC-R) or 143(Stanford-Binet).

I do not suffer any physical disability, thankfully, but my wife is unable to work. She's had a knee replaced, and needs the other done...

I'm fortunate that I've found work that does not require great physical exertion, or I'd be screwed...

Bill,

Define "low functioning".

I could make a friend out of a 157 IQ...

Social issues, I'm sure. Communication? Will he relate?

Asking seriously.

We could have much in common. My son is diagnosed ADHD with a 130+ IQ

Steve S

No problem, I'm a big advocate of the fact that people are quicker to accept something that they understand so I'm happy to talk about it. Kids with actual "autism" versus diagnosis somewhere on the "Autism Spectrum Disorder" spectrum (yes I agree that is kind of a silly way to refer to it) are primarily affected in their ability to process external stimulus including social stimulus.

The nervous system seems to not be complete in some way and instead of responding to physical sensations and visual stimulus the way other people do, they experience things in a very different way. In Ethan's case, he does not feel pain in the way that you would expect... actually he doesn't feel pain much at all. When he was younger he would slam his hand in a door and then pull it out, sort of look at with an expression of "well that was interesting" then put his hand back in the door and slam it again. Typically with us rushing over in that sort of slo-mo "Noooooooo...." response that you see in commercials so often

They also have a need to stimulate their visual system, typically by making movements with their hands or a stick or something off in what we would call our peripheral vision. Ethan frequently moves his fingers in a sort of talking sock puppet way to the side of head and then moves them towards the center of his vision and down. As I write this, I realize that I don't think I've ever seen him move them up. Interesting...

Frequently kids with autism are stressed out in environments that are "busy" like a mall, amusement park, etc. They are especially sensitive to loud sounds and fear tends to show in a way that we interpret as terror.

Most kids with autism can't handle change and are highly routine dependent. Changes in routines can cause meltdowns, tantrums, self hurting, etc. We were fortunate in that we figured out that Ethan had autism when he was about 18 months old and after I read up on it (one of my Asperger's traits) I realized that the routine issue was not going to work for us and would not help him navigate society successfully so anytime we see him trying to develop a routine we deliberately break it. He's 10 now and his teach and aids use a daily schedule with him to help him transition from one activity to another, but at our request they shuffle his day up as much as possible so that he doesn't build up a routine during the school day. We have been able to keep him in a regular classroom so far which is great because he is surrounded by "typical peers" all day instead of being in a special needs program surrounded by other kids with various significant disabilities all day.

On the social side, Ethan does not talk much. Spelling and vocab each week are very easy for us because he looks at the words once and we don't have to bother for the rest of the week. He actually gets so bored with them that he deliberately gets them wrong and then corrects them before they are graded. We think he just likes to mimick what he sees on other classmates papers not realizing what grademarks and corrections are really for.

His language and comprehension are his biggest weakness. So even though he learns words very easily, he struggles with understanding context so words that sound the same but spelled differently are hard for him to figure out in the context of a sentence. He typically limits speaking to needs, specifically food or Angry Birds

He finally seems to be starting to understand what "personal space" is. For a long time he just never really recognized that other people were around him, he simply sat where he wanted even if meant being half in someone's lap.

A fun one is that he doesn't understand skirts and dresses. Our daughter has played competitive softball his entire life. Up until the end of last summer she played all year long every year and he pretty much only saw girls in pants and shorts. One day we had a girl sub for the team and her mom wore a dress and Ethan walked up to her and started trying to figure out where her legs were. Well long story short the mom was a bit of a hottie, and all the dad's really enjoy seeing Ethan lift up her skirt so that he could figure it out! We know to warn teachers about this every year!

One thing that we have found really helps him is to have a special Autism Resource Team in our school system do a sort of exercise with the kids in his class every year. Basically after about a week of school they gather the kids up and read them a book about how one character is different than the others like a spotted zebra sort of thing, and talk about how everyone is different. They have them all color a coloring page that is the same and then look at all the different ways that everybody colored their pictures. Then they start to talk about how each of them have different strengths. By this time they have all figured out that Ethan is done with everything before everybody else and that he is a wiz at math so they talk about that, then they talk about things that Ethan does like rocking, "flapping", and sort of yelling for no reason. All this helps the kids get past the "what's wrong with that kid" stage and he seems to be one of the most popular kids at school with lots and lots of other kids keeping an eye out for him and trying to include them in things as well as making sure that he doesn't hurt himself and that nobody hurts him. We figure that he'll do okay because he is a big hit with all the little cheer leaders and we all know that the cheer leaders tend to keep the bully types in line

If you remember the movie "Rain Man" then you have seen someone with autism as an adult. The movie is actually a biography of a real person and Dustin Hoffman spent time with him as well as some others in a group home ("institution") to develop his character and his portrayal of the role is incredibly accurate if you ever catch the special that was made on one of the educational cable stations about the real "Rain Man". The big difference is that the real guy's dad is still alive and taking care of him.

People with autism also tend to be savants (really truly gifted) in some specific area. Ethan can play classical music on his keyboard, he just won't let anyone watch him play and seems to have a sixth sense about being recorded and runs away yelling "no no no!" He love Wagner (think "Ride of the Valkyries" the song played from all the helicopters during a massive helicopter strike in "Apocalypse Now").

As for asperger's, well that is another book... but the basics are that I have some significant problems dealing with people and can't maintain friendships simply because I don't understand how to maintain them and don't feel the urge to be with people. Fortunately I'm apparently a really good kisser which is why I'm married

Let me know if you want to know more or if I've filled your brain enough...

Bill

tradetek wrote:I think my OCD likes the way I can see the puddles form on each piece of metal and then flow together and control how the puddle moves the direction that I want it with TIG.

I can see A puddle with stick, I just can't see that it is melting both pieces of metal together the way I can with TIG. And I have even less experience with SMAW than I do TIG so I know that my technique sucks. I have watched probably every video that both Jody and Lanse have put out there, but I still doubt that I'll ever like SMAW.

Bill

Vision is a problem with me. Fog drives me crazy, SMAW the lens gets nasty quick, In the dark I need reading glasses, and until recently I leaned toward setting the shade darker than necessary. Once I laid a gorgeous vertical up 7018 in 3/8" steel 1/2" right of the joint. My sons find it amusing! If for no other reason TIG is better, no smoke!

Bill Beauregard wrote:If for no other reason TIG is better, no smoke!

Hallelujah brother!