Welding Tips and Tricks

how often should a guy change the antifreeze in his water cooler??
John
ps. miller

How many miles do you think the water has travelled? I know most manufacturers (of automobiles) recommend changing the coolant every 50-60k and I would imagine that the coolant you are using is either ethylene or propylene glycol based. It doesn't really "go bad" per se, but eventually it will lose some of its functionality. Most times they recommend changing it because that's how long the service life on the additives in the coolant last. In addition to that, the system capacity on most light duty automobiles is 7-10 quarts, whereas most water coolers are a few gallons to say the least. So there is more "coolant" available to disperse the heat, reducing the overall thermal load on the coolant. Plus a torch and hoses are minuscule compared to an engine

I guess the real question is, how often do you want to pay $11.99 for a gallon of cheap coolant?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

what coolant should a guy put in his water cooler???
cheap Walmart antifreeze???

John

I was told that "regular" automotive antifreeze does weird stuff when in contact with HF / AC & you need a welding specific product ( which in the UK is like hens teeth ! ) - likewise if your local water has any amount of dissolved minerals in it you need to use distilled water - all adds up up to more headache & cost - but it's better than frying your first torch ! - I'm sure Otto will explain this better.

Yes, please I would like, "of course", to take as good of care of my water cooler and torches as possible

John~

In the UK many new cars have so many mixed metals in their engine components & aluminum radiators they require a "special" antifreeze - it's generally pink (ish) in color ( no idea what it's made of - usually just has a makers code on ) & I was told it has a very low conductivity to help reduce electrolysis & weird sensor readings - I wonder if anyone on the forum can advise if this is "close enough" to be used as welding coolant as none of the LWS have even heard of it !

I use di water and rv anti freeze

"General purpose " antifreeze such as you might put in an RV I assume to be ethylene glycol based & this is what I'm sure I was told never to use for welding - maybe I'm wrong - or maybe It is'nt as bad as people say ? -hopefully someone on the forum can elaborate on suitability - I think Otto has mentioned something about this in the past - could have been relating to a torch meltdown - it's not something that you'd think of generally unless you've had experience of the effects so it's certainly worth discussion.

Just looked at the jug I use rv and marine antifreeze with di water.

The antifreeze is ethyl alcohol based

Remember with anything there was a lot of thought and engineering that went into the fluid sold specifically for TIG coolers. I would recommend that you stick with the genuine stuff. Coolant for TIG is not conductive and antifreeze for RV's and cars is. You also want distilled water. That is not to say that it will not work but why take a chance? Also try taking your cooler back for warranty repair and tell them you used RV coolant- you won't get far.

Thanks for that & I agree in principal -but at a push or if you live someplace it's hard to get what are your thoughts on this pink antifreeze that's meant to be low conductivity - used in late model cars ?

I would use it in a pinch, but would not leave it in for an extended period... I am looking into the science of this will let you know later.

Most welding suppliers will sell (or have available) "low-conductivity" coolant/antifreeze. This stuff is important for HF-start and HFAC work. Automotive and RV antifreeze have "corrosion inhibitors" to protect the various metals they come in contact with, and many of these compounds increase the conductivity of the fluid. And, yes, as mentioned, most tap-water has dissolved calcium and magnesium (as ions) which conduct electricity, as well.

If you only do DC scratch-start/lift arc, you'll likely never have an issue.

OTOH, I smoked three torches (actually just the torch leads) welding aluminum at 200+ amps HFAC before I discovered the "coolant" was cheapo antifreeze and tap-water.

Steve S

I've read several discussions on this on other forums.

Turns out many guys use the Propylene Glycol version of RV antifreeze.

There is a cheaper version that has ethanol (ethyl alcohol?) in it that people do not use.

I contacted one manufacturer of the ethanol based version and they said it is not rated for thermal transfer due to heat releasing flammable vapors.

On the flip side, lots of guys said the would not risk their torch, cable, and cooler to save a few bucks so they run the real stuff.

One companies response:

RV plumbing antifreeze contains ethanol and if heated the solution will release ethanol vapours which are flammable, this is why Recochem does not recommend the use of RV plumbing antifreeze as a heat transfer fluid.

Hope this helps

thanks

Robin Le Sage
Recochem Inc. 8725 Holgate Crescent, Milton, Ontario, L9T 5G7
Directeur, Conformité et Informations Techniques
Compliance and Technical Information Manager

I really can't add anything more than what's already been said except don't mix your green and red anti-freeze. I did this once and is ate a plastic part on my wife's car-twice...not good.

oh and I re-read my earlier post and I should have said low-conductivity not non-conductive. Sorry

For what a water cooler and a good inverter machine costs I am not cutting corners on coolant. The coolant I use I bought at my Lincoln dealer. This stuff goes down to (IIRC) 30 below which is important in unheated detached garage!

anyone have a brand of tig water???

I do, but it's raining like hell... I'll go in a bit.

Steve S

I'd like to get a couple of gal. of tig water, any paticular brand you guys u use???

John

I asked this question a while back. My machine is a 1984 Miller. The manual says clean tap water without chemicals. More recent stuff I have found calls for Miller anti freeze they sell for the purpose. It costs $28.00 per gallon, mix 1 to 1 with de ionized water.
An internet search says distilled water is purified through distillation, and is sometimes sold as de ionized water. It is also produced by reverse osmosis. As to where it is sold I don't know.
I know de ionized water is less electrically conductive I'm not clear why we care. Is it corrosion, High frequency interference, or some other reason.

All right, I waded out to the truck...

"Industrial Supreme" all weather protection. Low Conductivity antifreeze/coolant. Formulated especcially for use in systems where high-frequency current is used... etc. etc.

Steve S

this any good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WELDMARK-DEFENS ... 4d186fab38

Time for me to buy into this one since it is right up my refrigeration alley.

Ethanol/water mixture is the coolant of choice in the wine industry because it does not irretrievably contaminate wine in accidental contact. In concentrations below 26% it is not flammable but the freeze point at 26% is not low enough for those in cold climates (AK?). At elevated temperatures it will evaporate to eventually nothing and become ineffective, so I guess that makes it a poor choice for our application.

Ethylene glycol is toxic and irritates the skin. Propylene glycol does not irritate the skin and is not toxic.(no don't go drinking it instead of wild turkey) Propylene glycol requires greater concentration in mixture to achieve the same freeze point as ethylene glycol and is more viscose.
For propylene glycol : 25% by weight in water = freeze point of +15*F. 50% by weight = freeze point of minus 25*F

Glycols are clear in color like water.

A "specialized low conductive antifreeze" is probably pure glycol mixed with water and no automotive additives. Pure ordinary glycol can be purchased at refrigeration parts wholesalers for less than LWS for "special" stuff.

How often to change? I once had an alloy engine head rot out in my ford because my ford service dept failed to replace coolant after 2 years as per manual instructions. This would be a good guide as we are also dealing with elevated temperatures. Also if you are in a cold environment (AK?) and have ice bergs floating around in your tank this might also be a good indicator.

Thanks,
Should I buy commercial coolant designed for HF water coolers????

~John