[hacadacalopolis]

OK I have got a situation at school. There are two units that are used for A/C welding at school- We have two miller syncrowave's, one is a 250 and the other is a 250dx. The Dx wont even arc anymore on HF continuous like their could be something wrong with the torch. The major concern or issue is with the regular 250, For starters I have been welding aluminum; with 1/8 pure tung, 150amp, 15cfh, straight argon, balance on 3-4, I don't mess with the HF intensity but it states 7-8. Within plain view without welding the arc used to be semi-straight with minor drifting/wandering. Now it has become widespread and erratic.
Please see video. {I am just mashing the pedal for a couple of seconds and letting off}
http://vimeo.com/85793243

I need to further note that BEFORE this started to happen. I simply made an error of setting the stinger on the cart handle thus somehow grounding it to the machine and got the stinger spring cherry red and melted the bushing a little bit. " I really hadn't thought that something like that would happen- I figure that rubber bushing would of protected all of it". A lot of people up at the shop keep their stingers with clamp handle on their machine like that while welding. Why me? Anyways I think it may have fucked up the Machine? Unsure?

And, to further complain- I cannot even tell if my gas is bad. UP until this event I cannot even get a shiny tungsten, its always green and black.
I am new to this machine, But shop instructor is out for a herniated groin and I am just trying to help remedy this situation.

[hacadacalopolis]

Before I noticed the wild arcing, I was actually trying to weld.
I couldn't even get close to laying beads without minor shock from the filler rod.

[AFSATCOM]

Evey time I've seen a tungsten blacken up like that it's been from a lack of gas coverage. It's possible the spring melted the gas hose. I would first listen for gas coming out of the cup then either dismantle the torch to look for damage or swap it out. Dunno if the shocks you are getting are a result of this or caused by something else but I don't see any reason an erratic arc would cause the tungsten to blacken.

[hacadacalopolis]

Im confused
Your saying the spring melted the gas hose in the tig torch?
I cannot dismantle or open the machine, As far as troubleshooting- Visually, water and gas hoses on outside seems to be ok.

I can hear gas coming out, but it doesn't state their isn't a leak...
But if it helps I can hear/feel the flow the more or less I adjust the flowmeter.

[hacadacalopolis]

I haven't had contamination issues like this before. So I will def try and check the lines tomorrow.

[AFSATCOM]

Ok read that wrong the first time. Just woke up and all. Didn't even register the word stinger.

Focus on one problem at a time. I know a black tungsten is a gas issue. It's good to start with a known and hopefully it will resolve other problems. Did you purge the lines before striking an arc? Grab a bottle of C25 by accident?

Once you think you have it sorted, clean up that tungsten before trying it again.

And it sucks ya can't pop the covers. That DX probably just needs the spark gaps adjusted.

[hacadacalopolis]

No I posted on the thread straight argon, I even swapped out the old tank that has sat there in seldom use before I got on it. But even today I swapped it out for another argon tank. Because mine was low to where gas coverage was noticeable.

I'm going to be talking to the day class shop instructor along with a electrician(if he can come around to it) tomorrow just before they leave if I can. But what doesn't make since is the day class has been still using it like no problem occurred. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I'm going to hang on this for now and see what can be done tomorrow.

For opening them up- I know, I just don't want to be liable or blamed for anything

[AFSATCOM]

Had to ask about the argon. Sometimes folks get in a rush and miss something like that. I've persnally never forgotten to turn on my gas or purge the lines

I will say that of I were in your place where I was having trouble and others weren't with the same machine, my immediate assumption would be that I was doing something wrong.

Just noticed Gulf Breeze btw. I grew up in Ft Walton.

[hacadacalopolis]

He'll ya, where at in ft Walton?
Did you get yourself a nice gig in Europe?

[AFSATCOM]

He'll ya, where at in ft Walton?
Did you get yourself a nice gig in Europe?

The old man was stationed at Hurlburt for years. I was livin in that area up till shortly after Opal hit. Been all over since. Joined the AF in '99. I've spent about a third of my life outside of the US.

[hacadacalopolis]

Wow, that is along time ago. I wish I was involved in welding 10-15 years ago.
I'll have to wait till tomorrow (wed) for the syncrowave issue btw.

[MinnesotaDave]

Wow, that is along time ago. I wish I was involved in welding 10-15 years ago.
I'll have to wait till tomorrow (wed) for the syncrowave issue btw.

Long time ago? Watch yer tongue - I got out of the Air Force in 94
Ah crap...that was a long time ago...

Any progress or different explanation today?

[hacadacalopolis]

Ha... Well Dave I wasn't too impressed with what I experienced Wednesday.

Yes I did get the instructor from day class to look at the machine, He also knows what happened to the machine when I got that stinger cherry red. He told me that there shouldn't be anything wrong with the machine after that took place.

So I asked about checking the spark gaps, He said we don't ever need to check that. I just shrugged.
He appeared to weld a nice shiny large weave bead after getting setup and he ended up with a shiny tungsten tip- " I thought there's gotta be something wrong I'm doing".
I possibly could not be getting enough cleaning action before a lay a bead down. Unsure? Another student and I were practicing with it and I could simply not get back to the way I had it down 2 weeks ago(Before all this complication I was even able to stack beads on the outside edges of the plate).
Again, I still don't understand why I am feeling the small amount of electricity on the filler rod.
Neither the student or the instructor was getting shocked, so there's still something I must be doing wrong.

I did get him to see that the HF on the Dx model quit. By that time our night class instructor arrived and he checked it, says it needs to get sent out and serviced. Thank god. Our regular instructor told us he thinks he needs another week before he can come back. But I do know he will be more willing to help with the aluminum welding.

With that being said the other guy on aluminum will be there for a bit. I am just sticking with our carbon steel plate 3/8" open groove with no backing TIG.

[hacadacalopolis]

Brand new Gas bottle and flowmeter of syncrowave were replaced today. There was water or some type of fluid coming from the torch body after installing the new bottle. We turned the flow all the way up to purge the the lines. There was also dirt and moisture where somebody had put Teflon tape on the fittings. It was all taken off and all fittings were tightened back down without any tape. This was one major problem. I may try and check the spark gaps, if the other guy that is on the machine is still having trouble, Otherwise I will not touch anything.

Running much better, but very grainy beads. Still black tungsten and green tungsten tip.

[hacadacalopolis]

Does the coolant ever need to be changed out?

[MinnesotaDave]

Something is bothering me about this deal - I assume you paid for a class in welding, not fixing machines.

There better be some cash refunded if you are not getting welding time in...

I understand a machine problem now and then, but I'd be pissed by now that a local miller tech has not been called to come service the machine.

[Otto Nobedder]

If you blew ANY water at all from the torch, you have a coolant leak in the torch head. A small leak will do big, strange things to your welds and your tungsten.

If the machine continues to act up, try swapping a torch from a "known good" machine, and you'll prove the problem, but a coolant leak is the only reasonable explanation for water coming out of the torch.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

By the way, while I agree in principle that a welding class should be about welding, not fixing machines, I'll add:

We all have to chase gremlins like this in our careers, so pay attention to the logical process to finding the solution, and file it away. It will serve you again someday.

Steve S

[hacadacalopolis]

Damn.
Maybe we will take the torch off the Dx to test it.
Yes very little water trickled down from inside the torch body onto the hoses.

Our school is an accredited school in Florida. They do accept prepaid funds and I believe they are funded federally and by the state. I was a selfpayer for about a year, but as of mid last year I got on with the FAFSA Florida Pell grant. That federal grant will pay you and pay your tuition fees; however, people still abuse it.

As far as the other machine(Dx) with the HF not starting, It will get sent off. Our instructor was in testing it and said it needs to be repaired...

Monday I will definitely let the other guy know what you told me about the torch issue. I'll post later that night with a hopeful update.

[hacadacalopolis]

DX is gone for repairs( thank you finally).

Cannot use another torch; We did look at it between the return barb and the power/water line is leaking minimally at the threaded clamps. I can put my finger and get it entirely wet after lightly feeling around the main line (power/water) I'm Guessing but I think that is correct right? Got the day class instructor out again, said that minimal amount shouldn't cause anything... He later commented that we ought to get those torches replaced because of how badly melted and wrapped(electrical tape) they are. Whatever...

So, the guy that is using it hasn't complained of any water leaking. But when you do take the torch body off there is visual and physical signs of it being wet.

I'll give commentary on the usage when I'm back on it

[hacadacalopolis]

Still very grainy appearance.
Used lanthanated 2% 3/32 ... I felt that the arc wander has really improved.

Still green tungsten tip
Amps 135 max


Here is some simple beads.

[MinnesotaDave]

Green? What the heck made that happen?

Beads don't look bad man - but if that's 1/8" material - turn it at least to 150 amps.
Unless it's already making a nice puddle in 3 seconds or less, then ignore me

[hacadacalopolis]

Hey haha, I said the hell with this. This is the last I did. The watercooled torch finally gave out on another person and Now they are getting a new one.



Apparently the machine caught on fire from what I heard( I couldn't see any resemblance of anything being burnt) and also there was a large puddle of water being mopped up from the 250 analog machine. Never caught this in action. One of our guys was using it and the incident occurred.


I do appreciate everyone, especially mike and others about the amps. It really helps with tacking. My experience has not been satisfactory It makes me not want to deal with the two machines in the back ever again. If I ever do aluminum again I think ill stick to an inverter machine for hobby/personal use

Don't wanna dog the syncrowave, but our maintenance is piss poor on those at school.