Welding Tips and Tricks

OK, I'm new to welding, and jumping in head first with TIG, after years of watching Jody's videos. (I expect most of my welding will be on light-gauge aluminum, and spool gun wasn't very appealing.)

As I build a collection of consumables, I'm finding hugely different prices - one place might have the same tungsten at like 2.5x the price for the same quantity. Same with collets, cups, gas lenses, filler rod, etc.

Do you "get what you pay for" with cheap consumables? Do they tend to fail that much faster, or in the case of tungsten and filler, is the content / performance not really up to par?

As a hobbyist / beginner, I'm looking to understand when it's smart to buy cheap, and when it's smart to spend more money.

And, of course, what are your favorite sources? USAweld.com (HTP) seems to have good prices on tungsten; river-weld on eBay seems to have good prices for torch parts. Or do they?

Thanks,
Richard

Hello Richard,

Welcome to the world of welding. It is a great hobby. As a hobby welder myself I started with a Miller Diversion 165. By the way of consumables I started with a name brand "kit" consisting of a nice plastic storage box, 3 collets, 3 collet holders, 3 cups and 3 pieces of tungsten. A very expensive nice plastic storage box. I found nothing special about the contents. On the other end of the spectrum I have purchased most of my consumables from weldingcity.com. They are "generic" items and I could probably get 5 of each for less than the price of the original "kit" (except for the nice plastic storage box). I have not found any difference in performance between name brand and generic consumables. If you are doing xray quality welding on a nuclear plant or oil refinery there would be requirements for pedigreed consumables and filler. For hobby use... no. And if you purchase some cheap consumables and they don't work for you.. you have not lost much.

So when does it make sense to pay more? Many of the neat toys which Jody demos. I have purchased a CK FlexLoc torch. No generic available. A good investment. I have also purchased a couple of Weldcraft stubby gas lens bodies and collets. Again, Weldcraft seem to be the only supplier. Expensive but worth it. Same with E3 tungsten although it does not perform better for me than generic 2% Lanthanated so far.

As a hobby welder purchasing on-line shipping cost is a concern. It pays to shop around. I have purchased a lot of filler from weldingsupply.com. Their initial shipping charge is a little steep but if you place a reasonable size order it averages out. And if you want to try the stubby gas lens they had a great price last time I looked - provided you added them to a larger/heavy order to cover the shipping.

As far as durability... I purchased a generic WP17 flexible torch head body from weldingcity for about $10 some years back. I used it for the heaviest job I ever did with my Diversion - a 1 1/2" diameter shaft into a 4" wide 3/4" thick bar - part of my step-son's antique Farmall tractor. I spent a lot of time allowing the Diversion to cool down. The torch was no worse for the wear. I have also run the torch at more than its rating on my new(er) Dynasty 200DX and finally donated it to the local community college welding program to see if they could wear it out.

Ken

Richard welcome to the forum.

taylorkh wrote:By the way of consumables I started with a name brand "kit" consisting of a nice plastic storage box, 3 collets, 3 collet holders, 3 cups and 3 pieces of tungsten. A very expensive nice plastic storage box. I found nothing special about the contents.

I bought a couple assorted packs off eBay and $75 got me 20+ regular / gas / long cups, about a dozen gas lenses, and a dozen collets & bodies. Threw them in a $10 plastic organizer and made my own kit. I figured the worst these parts could do is break prematurely.

I took a look at weldingcity.com, and their tungsten prices are even better than USAweld.com (and weldingsupply.com too)! This is a good example of what I was wondering - is there value in paying more for a name brand like Weldcraft for the consumables. It sounds like not, especially at my level. What I want to avoid is struggling with poor results only to discover that buying cheap consumables is what's making life difficult.

taylorkh wrote:So when does it make sense to pay more? Many of the neat toys which Jody demos. I have purchased a CK FlexLoc torch. No generic available. A good investment.

Yup. That looks like a slick tool. It's at the top of my list after I get some weld time and have a better idea if I need it. Thanks for the pointers!

Cheers,
Richard

No one wants to admit it - but many big name brands of welding products have all their stuff made in China - the only thing they contribute is packaging with a familiar name & a big profit margin ! - I'm sure there are good & bad suppliers in China - but they improve constantly & do show a commitment to sort anything once told about a problem - I've never bought tungsten from there as I've heard in the past it's not good - but this maybe years ago or unfounded patriotic bias from someone - that said you can get bad batches from well known brands - I have bought quite alot of torch parts - both Tig & plasma from " Shop River" & they have always been fast / efficient & their product seems fine to me - I'd like to buy local - but either they don't have it or it's just stupidly over priced so when it's my own hard won money at stake I do bulk buy from Ebay - never had a problem - but obviously with Ebay there are some complete #!*^~# on there - you need to pay attention to who the seller is / read the item carefully & check their feedback before parting with $ .

a definite truth on the on ebay!!!
Check those sellers out!!
A bad day on ebay is no fun!!

I have had great success with welding city, 3shop river, and a couple out of "gangzoo china"
I'm just running a 17 on my E 160
2 cents
John

noddybrian wrote:I have bought quite alot of torch parts - both Tig & plasma from " Shop River" & they have always been fast / efficient & their product seems fine to me - I'd like to buy local - but either they don't have it or it's just stupidly over priced

3shop-river and river-weld are the same outfit, and delivery is as fast as most domestic orders I've placed! I ordered something from each of his shops, and a single box arrived from China 6 days later. (And they nailed my special instructions, too.)

I'm all for supporting the local shops when it's not crazy, like 5x or more the cost. I'd like them to be around the day I run out of something and need it today. But they could buy from the same sources and still make a nice profit at a much lower price. (Just because they don't source competitively doesn't mean I should overpay.) E.g., one day I'll spring for a Lincoln 180Dual MIG, and happily buy it from my LWS because their pricing isn't way out of whack with other sources.

Cheers,
Richard

One junk gas lens was all it took for me. Now it's a CK torch, CK consumables (wedge lock collets are sweet), Diamond Ground Wolfrum tungsten. I can't afford to chase problems.

+1 on what Zank said, CK and Diamond Ground only I use 2% Lan. in my Flex loc.

Len

with alumina nozzels i dont notice much difference. gas lens i do... ck has a much higher quality and i do notice a difference in gas coverage with the ck gas lens. another thing i really like is ck wedge collet. holds tungsten with out having to tighten the back cap so much. they seem to be made of brass instead of copper wich deforms and gets bent especially after hight heat in air cooled torches!

zank wrote:One junk gas lens was all it took for me. Now it's a CK torch, CK consumables (wedge lock collets are sweet), Diamond Ground Wolfrum tungsten. I can't afford to chase problems.

Fair enough. Thanks for the perspective! If I were using my gear to earn a living (especially in the field), I'm sure the lost income and lost confidence quickly outweigh the savings. As for the base torch and grinding, I get why those are important.

What kind of problem did the cheap gas lens cause? Poor coverage? Most of these parts are so simple, it'd seem hard to make them wrong.

And what what led you to a specific brand of tungsten? Tungsten and filler rod are what I'm most curious about cheap vs. name-brand, since they're high consumables. Is the cheap stuff really much worse than the name brands?

Cheers,
Richard

nova_70_383 wrote:with alumina nozzels i dont notice much difference. gas lens i do... ck has a much higher quality and i do notice a difference in gas coverage with the ck gas lens. another thing i really like is ck wedge collet. holds tungsten with out having to tighten the back cap so much. they seem to be made of brass instead of copper wich deforms and gets bent especially after hight heat in air cooled torches!

Good info, thanks!

Aside from cracking prematurely, it didn't seem like there was much a nozzle could screw up. Good insight on the CK gas lenses and collet. A FlexLoc is on my list once I get some seat time under my belt; it looks like there are a few reasons to want one.

Cheers,
Richard

zank wrote:One junk gas lens was all it took for me. Now it's a CK torch, CK consumables (wedge lock collets are sweet), Diamond Ground Wolfrum tungsten. I can't afford to chase problems.

FYI, I wandered over to Diamond Ground's site and they have a free sample program.
http://www.diamondground.com/request-a-sample/
The options are limited, but when they e-mailed me to qualify the request, I asked to sample both their standard and their Wolfram tungsten in 2% lanthanated. I'll hang onto them for a bit and see if I can tell the difference once I can run a decent bead.

Cheers,
Richard

I too am looking to stock up on torch consumables and have been shopping around. A gas lens for my Miller gas-cooled 17 style torch, part no. 45V26 costs $2.89 from WeldingCity and $22.86 from Cyberweld. A stubby gas lens kit (3 collets, 3 gas lens collet bodies and 3 alumina cups in a plastic organizer box have a price range from $35 to $70 depending on the source. I think I'll buy a small selection of parts from WeldingCity and look at the results I get.

Jim

If you do want a nice starter kit for torch parts, regular collets and gas lens .040, 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8 is the Profax MAK-1S or MAK-2S depending what torch you have. You will need to buy nozzles but this kit was a good price through my MRO supplier.

Weldcraft is now "Miller" but I've had good luck with their nozzles and Tungsten for years, along with CK torches and parts. I actually found some Weldcraft 2% thor and 2% lan tungsten at .040" on Grainger as a close out for $11.00 a pack!

I have some Diamond Ground stuff on the way as well, pricing is very good....now to see how it holds up.

tbh everything i buy is made in china, even the welder bought in Germany is made in china, 4 years now and working flawlessly
very pleased with it!

NYWELDERJim wrote:I too am looking to stock up on torch consumables and have been shopping around.

hi, Jim.

Check out my other post on my TIG organizer - I just added a post with info on the consumables I bought - $75 can get you a lot more than 3 sets of consumables.
http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... 254#p26254

Cheers,
Richard