Welding Tips and Tricks

I'd like to preface this post by saying that I'm a mechanical engineer, not a welder. But I have been around a lot of tig welding and have even designed 2 automated orbital tig welding heads for the nuclear world.

At home, I have a chinese multi process machine. It runs flux core better than any machine I've ever used before and burns 6013 nicely (it doesn't like 6011 though). I finally broke down and bought a bottle of argon and some Midwest Tungsten 3/32 E3 tungsten to try my hand at tig (the machine is DC lift start only).

I've sharpened 5 of the Tungsten. The first Tungsten works awesome, 3 refuse to light at all and the 5th will light 75% of the time. I have tested these 5 repeatedly and the same 3 refuse to light. Any ideas?? Bad batch of Tungsten?

Ps. The weld engineers at work are really impressed with my skills given my VERY limited hood time with tig and my very cheap machine. I'm pretty proud of my welds so far.

welcome. I don't know why you would want to change tungstens, unless you are saving time from resharpening after dipping or messing a tungsten up somehow. BUT, as long as the ONLY thing you did was to change a tungsten, you should have no problems restarting. Make certain your base material is CLEAN (bare shiny metal), make certain the work (ground) clamp is on the material to be welded. Grind the tungsten longitudinaly . Don't lift too far/fast. Have at it.

Since I'm just learning, I have 5 sharpened because I am still dipping the tungsten. My pedestal grinder with my dedicated wheel are in my shop, but my welder is in the barn, so having spares sharpened saves me a bunch of walking. All tungsten are sharpened the same...longitudinally.

Metal is clean and shiny. Ground clamp does not move between tests. I try to light in the exact same spot each time.

I'm baffled why these 3 won't arc at all. I've even wiped them with acetone to make sure they are clean.

More than likely you need to reverse the work cable to the NEG plug and the ground clamp to POS. TIG is DC NEG and most multi-process machines don’t have an internal polarity switch.

Might help to post a picture of the front of your welder and the cable connections to help diagnose.

Can you look closely at the color and surface finish on them and see if there's ever so slight a difference between the pieces? I'd almost guess you were sent differing types of tungsten that sombody mixed up in the box. Also, what is this brand. It scares me when I look online at product pages and it says:

Every Electrode is Eddy Current Tested for Flaws and Defects

No kidd'n? there can be flaws that keep it from working? Hmmm, never heard of that before. Perhaps unique to your brand?

Buy some new stuff either here or at Cyberweld and toss those that won't light. I've never even heard of an issue like this.

I just double checked. Ground is pos and electrode is neg. Like I said, no issues (except from the operator) welding with 2 of the 5.

Visually I see no difference in the colour of the electrodes. Also, all are banded purple. Actually, the 2 that work are darker near the point, but one would expect that since they have actually seen heat.

Maybe I'll sharpen the rest to test all 10 and just throw out the bad ones.

Everyone seem to be scratching their heads on this one.

Also, the tungsten are MTS brand bought from Amazon. They had great reviews, but maybe just crap.

Why not try and take a piece of Scotch bright and clean the Tungsten and see what comes off?
Try a multimeter and see if there is continuity along the length? Although high frequency does not seem to have a problem jumping a gap.

TBucket32 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:11 pm

At home, I have a chinese multi process machine. It runs flux core better than any machine I've ever used before and burns 6013 nicely (it doesn't like 6011 though). I finally broke down and bought a bottle of argon and some Midwest Tungsten 3/32 E3 tungsten to try my hand at tig (the machine is DC lift start only).

I've sharpened 5 of the Tungsten. The first Tungsten works awesome, 3 refuse to light at all and the 5th will light 75% of the time.

now the big question is are they trying to light?
with lift arc the machine "turns on" when you touch the tungsten on the work. some machines are poor at doing that and it doesn't take much to stop it working.
E3's may not be the best for such machines. but it also can be surface contamination or poor collet contact.

my multi welder is really bad for it and was horrendously frustrating for it. HF start is so much better.

I've never had issues with MTS tungstens but then I've used HF start. Have you tried striking it with the filler rod to initiate the arc? Are you familiar with that method?

I'll try cleaning with scotch brite.

I've tested the 5 and all range from 0.3 to 0.6 ohm.

As for "trying to start" when using the "bad" tungsten...when I touch the metal I get a tiny blue spark (some times) like a 9v battery if you short it but that is it. But that is it. With the "good" tungsten, I don't get that spark, it just initiate the arc.

Tweake - Any idea what E3 wouldn't work with these machines? I thought it was the most universal? Maybe I should give some lanthenated a try?

Oscar- I'll look up that method and give it a try tomorrow. Thanks

Oscar- I just did some looking online and can't seem to find the method you mentioned. Any chance you can describe it or post a link to a video or something?

TBucket32 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:45 pm I'll try cleaning with scotch brite.

I've tested the 5 and all range from 0.3 to 0.6 ohm.

As for "trying to start" when using the "bad" tungsten...when I touch the metal I get a tiny blue spark (some times) like a 9v battery if you short it but that is it. But that is it. With the "good" tungsten, I don't get that spark, it just initiate the arc.

Tweake - Any idea what E3 wouldn't work with these machines? I thought it was the most universal? Maybe I should give some lanthenated a try?

Oscar- I'll look up that method and give it a try tomorrow. Thanks

i would certainly try with some other tungsten, especially anything good for dc and low amp arc starts. at the very least that may tell you if its the machine rather than the tungsten.

tri blends (e3) are a bit tricky as there is no set standard. every brand is different.
most info i have seen indicates they are really for robotic welding where everything is much more precise.

Oscar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:37 pm I've never had issues with MTS tungstens but then I've used HF start. Have you tried striking it with the filler rod to initiate the arc? Are you familiar with that method?

i thought that was for scratch start rather than lift start.

Not sure if you've measured the tungstens diameter or not yet nor do I know if it would make or brake striking a arc.

But maybe if you put some calipers on them you may see a difference between the good and bad?

Doubt a few thou would ruin a tungsten but beats me maybe it could/does

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

tweake wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:16 pm i thought that was for scratch start rather than lift start.

yea, but it still works.

TBucket32 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:57 pm Oscar- I just did some looking online and can't seem to find the method you mentioned. Any chance you can describe it or post a link to a video or something?

FF to 2:40 into the video

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I have had a similar issue with a little inverter when I put it on negative dc but didnt flick the switch over to tig. The switch allows for lift arc. Otherwise its just in stick negative, which will make starts havoc. It may not be your issues but its a simple thing to overlook, I have a few tungstens that didnt like it and a bent one that liked too much

Oscar-Thanks for the video. I'll give it a try.

Toggatug-I just measured the 5. There is only .0008" variance from largest dia to smallest. I can't see that making any difference. Also one good and one bad are identical at .0937"

Gdarc21- There is no difference in my setup between tungsten changes. The machine stayed on lift tig. I was very methodical about my testing to try to eliminate variables. But I could see how that could get overlooked.

I have ordered a package of blue 2% lanth to try based on Tweake's comment. They will be here tomorrow. There are 2 LWS near me and both are very unpleasant to deal with for a beginner. I'd rather risk an online order than talk to them.

Oh, I also adjusted the OCV from 20V to 25V and still no success. I'm really thinking that these are bad or my little machine just can't handle the E3.

I just tested scotch brite and acetone on the electrodes and did both on the metal again too. Still no arc.

I give up. Throwing these 3 away.

IF you know someone else who does tig welding, take your tungsten along and go see them. Let them give the tungsten a try.

Yea, now I'm very curious. Mail them to me and I'll pay you.

Definitely don't throw em out though. Lots of folks here would love to see what's going on 1st hand. Once Oscar is done with em, he can send em to me!

arc, arc, pass!

If they pass, you can just keep em in Texas, thanks!

Have you let MTS know. They seem like the sort of company that would be interested.