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Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:01 pm
by Wildwelder96
So how should I prep my tungsten for AC welding? Should I taper or ball the tip of the tungsten? Or do both work?

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:04 pm
by Mac's Crew
I am no expert but have done both... I like tapered. It will ball a bit on it's own.

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Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:09 pm
by Oscar
Some don't ball well on their own. Please disclose what tungsten blend you are using and in what diameter.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:20 pm
by Spartan
I use a 60 degree taper with a small flat on the end whenever possible when welding aluminum. Seems to hold up the best and give the best penetration/heat input for me. However, depending on your tungsten flavor, size, and cleaning action balance, sometimes the only option is to ball the tungsten before running a bead when at high amperage and higher cleaning actions since the tungsten can sometimes struggle to hold up under these conditions and will start to develop large nodules and mushrooms that will interfere with the arc control if not balled ahead of time.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:21 pm
by Wildwelder96
I'm using zirconiated tungsten 3/32

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:55 pm
by v5cvbb
Spartan wrote:I use a 60 degree taper with a small flat on the end whenever possible when welding aluminum. Seems to hold up the best and give the best penetration/heat input for me. However, depending on your tungsten flavor, size, and cleaning action balance, sometimes the only option is to ball the tungsten before running a bead when at high amperage and higher cleaning actions since the tungsten can sometimes struggle to hold up under these conditions and will start to develop large nodules and mushrooms that will interfere with the arc control if not balled ahead of time.
This works for me using 2% lanthanated. At reasonable balance levels it holds shape pretty well.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:59 pm
by Oscar
Wildwelder96 wrote:I'm using zirconiated tungsten 3/32
I've not used Zirconiated tungsten. I have some HTP Quad-Mix, which I suspect is La,Y,Zr,Ce, but that is just a wild guess.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:59 pm
by LtBadd
I haven't used zirconiated with an inverter, but many times with a transformer, at that time it was the go-to tungsten for AC welding. If you have an inverter then do a taper with a flat and it'll ball as you use it. Experiment and try different points.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:42 am
by BugHunter
Oscar wrote:
Wildwelder96 wrote:I'm using zirconiated tungsten 3/32
I've not used Zirconiated tungsten. I have some HTP Quad-Mix, which I suspect is La,Y,Zr,Ce, but that is just a wild guess.
I bought some zirconiated for use with my inverter welder and wasn't impressed. It doesn't hold shape nearly as well as 2%L so I virtually never use anything but. I also bought Ceriated and that was the same, just doesn't hold up as well. In fact, unless you're at much lower amps, like 50-60, I find it counterproductive. I can't speak to the metallurgical reasoning for using ceriated or zirconiated. I'm sure there is a reason or they wouldn't make it.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:10 am
by Oscar
BugHunter wrote:I bought some zirconiated for use with my inverter welder and wasn't impressed. It doesn't hold shape nearly as well as 2%L so I virtually never use anything but. I also bought Ceriated and that was the same, just doesn't hold up as well. In fact, unless you're at much lower amps, like 50-60, I find it counterproductive. I can't speak to the metallurgical reasoning for using ceriated or zirconiated. I'm sure there is a reason or they wouldn't make it.
The 2%Ce 5/32" I'm using in my Invertig 400 has held up very well to 350A, both in AC and DC. I believe Zr tungsten has better re-starts with regards to etching and soot-levels. That is not a fact, simply presented as speculation based on what I've read.

Re: Tapered or balled tungsten?

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:02 pm
by BugHunter
Oscar wrote:
BugHunter wrote:I bought some zirconiated for use with my inverter welder and wasn't impressed. It doesn't hold shape nearly as well as 2%L so I virtually never use anything but. I also bought Ceriated and that was the same, just doesn't hold up as well. In fact, unless you're at much lower amps, like 50-60, I find it counterproductive. I can't speak to the metallurgical reasoning for using ceriated or zirconiated. I'm sure there is a reason or they wouldn't make it.
The 2%Ce 5/32" I'm using in my Invertig 400 has held up very well to 350A, both in AC and DC. I believe Zr tungsten has better re-starts with regards to etching and soot-levels. That is not a fact, simply presented as speculation based on what I've read.
Up at those really high amps like you're running, I have no experience. I sold my 350A machine back when I got my Dynasty DX and now have just a 210A max. My machine doesn't even have tungsten settings for >1/8". Maybe at larger cross sectional areas the Ce tungsten holds up better. My experience was with 3/32 and 1/16, and there I found it to not hold shape. My typical AC balance is ~75% so not a boatload of energy going into the electrode.

I bought the packs of each just to say I had them and give each a first-hand try. Wasted money for my purposes. But as I said before, I would guess there's a good reason for the stuff. Maybe I need to try the Zr again for when I want to restart without the hot-spot from the startup arc current.