torch amp ratings

raticus · Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:48 pm

though I've used whatever torches were available on jobs (sometimes a mix-match of random parts), with no choice, just whatever my bosses would supply me with... at home I'm a little more discerning...

concerning torch amp ratings... I just bought a new CK Trim Line #26 200amp (air) torch, which is about the same size as my regular #17 torch.. my box only goes up to 180amps, though for my thicker .135 wall tubing i'm running around 140amps give or take... Figured I might as well have a torch that's rated for as many amps as I can muster for any future projects, though I'm wondering if it really matters much. I'd like to buy a small #9 torch, though they're only rated to 125amps... If I were to weld at say 140amps (or higher) with a #9, what issues can I expect if any? I'm guessing mostly just a lot of extra external heat on the torch itself, but would there be really much issues with the torch internals itself getting damaged?

I'm gonna guess as long as welds aren't too long without breaks, it should be fine for pretty much everything, correct? thanks.

cj737 · Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:37 pm

A #9 is really nice, though #17 is probably most widely used size (or water-cooled 20). I use my 17 up to 200 amps for intermittent welding, but when I really need to put the heat to something thick, I use my 26. Its larger, more cumbersome, but the heat rating is more important.

LtBadd · Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:20 pm

raticus wrote:'m guessing mostly just a lot of extra external heat on the torch itself, but would there be really much issues with the torch internals itself getting damaged?

I'm gonna guess as long as welds aren't too long without breaks, it should be fine for pretty much everything, correct? thanks.

Yes, but you may be disappointed with the "aren't too long without breaks" part. Then again if you need a smaller torch to get in somewhere and you have the time to rest the torch it might be ok for that situation.

Oscar · Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:42 am

If you go too high amperage for too long, you can melt the power/gas cable right at the fitting where it threads onto the torch inside the handle. The heat from the torch body will go right into the copper cable inside the hose and burn the hose from the inside-out. Happened to me when I was welding aluminum on AC, which woukd be more problematic than on DC.

Louie1961 · Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:59 pm

Make yourself a little torch cooler from a cheap carbonator and get yourself a number 20 torch. You will NEVER look back

Something like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-hp-Corneli ... SwR7tdQ2ot

or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/McCann-E400397 ... Sw7Phc~ZE4

Simclardy · Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:50 pm

I go with a #20 ck worldwide super flex and for a cooler i use a little giant condensate pump. (If you know an hvac contractor ask him for an old one, they get thrown out when people replace their furnace/ac)
I have been running that little pump for almost 4 years. I use to run the proper coolant but now i just use water. If the flow starts to slow down i blow my lines out and I'm back in business. Cheers

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bap_ · Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:50 pm

I use a #9 for all jobs under 90 amps. Basically all sheet metal stuff upto 14 ga ish. I never have issues with the torch getting to hot if I don't weld with it on higher amp ranges for longer runs. Once I'm up in the 100+ amps I jump to the #17. You will definitely notice that at 120 amps the #9 will get hot to hold. I prefer the #9 100% of the time. Its totally worth having.

I've used a #20 quite a bit as well and its amazing esp for aluminum. However as a home shop guy, and without a water cooler, the air cooled stuff is good for steel and stainless. If you want to do a lot al AL, go for the #20 and buy a good quality water cooler.

One more quick comment, the #9 and #17 (CK/Miller at least) share the fittings on the gas line to the torch head. If you already have a #17 gas line that you like (Ck superflex ftw) you can just grab a torch head/handle and swap them out, and save a few bucks. You can also get a 12' CK superflex cable on amazon for around $40 for a #9 or #17 so its not too much of a buy.

Radishfever · Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:00 am

For the guys who run the 20 series torch with a water cooler. Do you find any negative effect from having more cables coming to the torch than its air cooled brother, as related to comfort while welding.

Would you recommend a new guy going with a 20 series and never looking back? The water cooler build would be easy for me and almost free.

Simclardy · Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:27 am

Radishfever wrote:For the guys who run the 20 series torch with a water cooler. Do you find any negative effect from having more cables coming to the torch than its air cooled brother, as related to comfort while welding.

Would you recommend a new guy going with a 20 series and never looking back? The water cooler build would be easy for me and almost free.

As another post said, if you plan on doing aluminum, go with the 20. I never used the #9. Just the 17 and 20.

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Radishfever · Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:12 am

It’s the first part of my question left unanswered.

Do you find that having more cables in the 20 series torch has a negative effect of on comfortability.

Compared to one cable on a 9-17 torch.

Guess the question was not clear?

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Simclardy · Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:42 pm

Radishfever wrote:It’s the first part of my question left unanswered.

Do you find that having more cables in the 20 series torch has a negative effect of on comfortability.

Compared to one cable on a 9-17 torch.

Guess the question was not clear?

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I would say no. I never use the number 9 so I can't say but my number 20 was much better than the number 17 I use a jacket for all the cables. I would not want the cables all separate

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Louie1961 · Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:01 pm

For the guys who run the 20 series torch with a water cooler. Do you find any negative effect from having more cables coming to the torch than its air cooled brother, as related to comfort while welding.

Nope, not at all.I only have experience with a 17 series air cooled torch however. I started out doing scratch start TIG with a 17 series torch and my old Hobart stickmate, doing DC and steel only. After about 30-40 minutes, that torch became uncomfortably hot to hold on to. My water cooled 20 series is a CK with the super flex cables and flex head. I can weld up to 250 amps at a 100% duty cycle and my hand never gets even remotely warm. Yes there are three hose lines to deal with but they are much thinner than hose was on my 17 series torch, so to me it was a wash.

Would you recommend a new guy going with a 20 series and never looking back? The water cooler build would be easy for me and almost free.

Nope, not until you get some experience and truly know that this is not a passing phase. Its a lot of money to invest in a water cooler, TIG machine, etc. I advise starting cheap with scratch start TIG. I really only weld aluminum for the practice/learning experience. I haven't yet done one project that used aluminum, and I have one guy asking me to repair his pontoon boat. But honestly I do so little TIG I am thinking of selling all my welders to fund the purchase of Multimatic 255

bap_ · Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:02 pm

I would disagree and say everyone has their own requirements.

Going back to the #20 torch. If you have flexible cables and a flexible jacket you won't notice it at all. Some people braid the three hoses as well. A jacket is likely sufficient.

BillE.Dee · Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:51 am

the flex lines are the best, for me anyway. When I first got the water cooled 20 I was leary about the additional hoses, but soon found out that they didn't cause any hardship. Ended up about the same as using a 17 air cooled. Just MAKE SURE the cooler is running when using the 20. . . .

Radishfever · Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 pm

Thanks everybody. Read through each post.

Got in a some hood time today and realized it would just be better to wait for the moment. The torch and cable that came with the machine are adequate. Also it will be rare that I'm running beads for 1/2 hour straight. When that project comes I'll switch. The torch I have is a 17 series handle with a removable torch body. The kit came with a 17 body and a 9 body. I'm running the 9 body with a Chinese gas lens and an 8 cup. Welding 1/8" steel for a bracket to mount a vacuum cyclone to the wall. Carry 50 pounds at most when done.

Very happy with todays results. The welds are dog crap for the most part except for one with no filler metal. But it's just perfect at the same time. Compared to the wire feeder it feels like total control of were you go.

Simclardy · Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:24 pm

Nice shop photo!

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LtBadd · Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:45 pm

Simclardy wrote:Nice shop photo!

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+1
Your welds don't look so bad, a little hood time is all (we all) need

Radishfever · Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:21 pm

Thank you folks,

That was the best bead by far. If you zoom on the other photo it is not as pretty. I did not want to share any close ups of the bad ones. It’s gonna take awhile to add filler good enough to want to share. Of course if I get stuck in rut I will share. [emoji13]

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