Welding Tips and Tricks

support bar broke on a machine. i had 3 days using the machine with it held together with 2 sash clamps and a pair of vice grips.
i broke the other end of the bar off by hand, the welds where not very strong.
repaired. not that happy with it. i have nothing to practice with before hand. gas flow was all over the show. found a leak in the quick disconnect. was using aluminum sheet as a backer so its reasonably clean on the back side.
first time using pickling gel. very impressed on how well it cleaned up.

Good stuff. Just remember to be very careful with the pickling paste. That stuff can burn right through to your bones, and then eat your bone. Not even joking.

Best, Mick

weldin mike 27 wrote:Good stuff. Just remember to be very careful with the pickling paste. That stuff can burn right through to your bones, and then eat your bone. Not even joking.

Best, Mick

yeah its a bit nasty. i got the neutralizing stuff as well. that way i can neutralize it (most of it) and make it safe to be moved so i can hose it off.

Be like Switzerland.... Be neutral.

But without the purple cows & cuckoo clocks !
All joking aside dilute phosphoric acid & 25 > 30 volts works just fine & easily washes off & will not eat you !

noddybrian wrote:But without the purple cows & cuckoo clocks !
All joking aside dilute phosphoric acid & 25 > 30 volts works just fine & easily washes off & will not eat you !

one of the cleaning machines would be nice, but they cost double what my ac/dc tig machine cost

My point is you don't need to drop like 2grand on a purpose made machine - they are so easy to improvise.

noddybrian wrote:But without the purple cows & cuckoo clocks !
All joking aside dilute phosphoric acid & 25 > 30 volts works just fine & easily washes off & will not eat you !

thought i was the only one who used that , bought some carbon fiber yarn and some 14g wire and made up a brush

i add some citric acid , the stuff used for candy making ,or concentrated lemon juice , works great and wont burn the fingers

the power supply is an old 0 to 24 volt 10 amp adjustable power supply

That's interesting - I never tried anything but phosphoric as I believe the expensive machines use that plus I keep it in stock for rust stain removal on boats & it's fairly cheap & is often used to clean stainless in kitchens / toilets etc - I never experimented with anything else.
I have used several power sources all more powerful than yours - I assumed it needed more power than that - I never tried making a brush - I never thought of it! over here the proper brushes can be bought on Ebay for £12 but I use a flat stainless wand with a short piece of fiber glass exhaust wrap over it - works pretty well on most shapes.

Kevin and Brian,

Any chance you have a picture of your home made tig brush? Would a battery charger work as the power source? Any details or pictures would be helpful as I'm trying to pass on to a contact.

Best, Mick

Sorry Mick - I don't have any pictures or any way to take them - I never went digital - only 35mm film !
I've used several power sources - I had always believed the commercial ones use around 25 > 30 volts & around 20 > 30 amps but could be mistaken - AC has a more aggressive cleaning action but can leave a slight whitish stain behind ( possibly made worse by water with high mineral content so I now use water from a dehumidifier ) - DC will not clean as well but will remove this as a final step - I originally used an ancient air cooled buzz box stick welder set to min with a heavy wire wound ballast resistor from a forklift speed controller in series with the wand to further lower the volts a bit ( though this one only had around 40volts OCV ) I've also used an old lorry battery charger ( 30 amp max ) I added 2 extra terminals to the front wired before the rectifier so it now has 4 terminals - 1 set is AC the other set is DC & I use both according to the cleaning required - I think distilled / or at least filtered water or water from a dehumidifier is the safest option with regards to contamination & the brush can be a flat wand or the carbon fiber kind - these are on Ebay for not fortunes or can be made ( I never tried this ) I find a double layer folded thickness of fiber glass exhaust wrap over a flat wand works fine - I imagine all of the consumables from the expensive bought machines could be sourced & used - I just never seen one in this country - normally anything cool in the welding world I see an advert / video of are only available in the USA so I improvise ! well that & the cost !

Thanks, that will keep the hounds at bay for a while.

No worries ! I've never seen a real one except in a video so I can only tell you what I improvised which seems to work OK - for the life of me I don't see where they get the price for a commercial one. I rather think you can use a small amount of any acid available to make the solution conductive as what your doing is a form of electrolysis - but I always used phosphoric acid - maybe others on the forum have used either a real one or home made & chime in on this topic.

weldin mike 27 wrote:Kevin and Brian,

Any chance you have a picture of your home made tig brush? Would a battery charger work as the power source? Any details or pictures would be helpful as I'm trying to pass on to a contact.

Best, Mick

Hi Mick

give me another week and i can post all the pics and info i have

, i have used a battery charger , takes a little longer , the higher the voltage the better

My you guys are all high tech and all...what ever happened to 20 Mule Team Borax? I guess I'm an old timer...

FYI, it doesn't take too much power, I know folks that have used a computer power supply to do that, and those are only 12 volts. If you have a spare laying around, you can use it but need to short one of the wires, usually it's the purple wire. You can google for using a computer power supply for electrolysis.

Cheers,
Alan

Your saying borax mixed as a paste / solution will passivate stainless ? never heard of it or tried it.

As to 12 volts DC I don't think from my experience it's very effective or fast unless your using a very strong acid solution which kinda defeats the point of using electrolysis- normally initial cleaning is done using AC - only final stage decorative cleaning on polished material is done DC - I will admit an average computer power supply is around 500 watts so will provide sufficient current - normal ATX supplies you jump the 4th pin in from the end of 1 line to the 4th from the opposite end on the other line of pins - the connector is not a mirror image of itself so you have a 50 / 50 chance of the correct way - if wrong it won't hurt anything - I've mostly found if the 4th pin is green that's the way it works but maybe this is'nt always true - interesting to see what folks are using & how effective they find it.

noddybrian wrote:Your saying borax mixed as a paste / solution will passivate stainless ? never heard of it or tried it.

That is not exactly what I was saying, but when I looked up up phosphoric acid it said it was basically an electrolyte. This is pretty much what people use 20 mule team borax for, the detergent acts as an electrolyte also, and many people use this for removing rust from metal, I have done this a number of times. I wasn't clear if that is what you were using it for, and it's not a fast process...usually 1 or 2 days. I was just commenting that it sounds like it does something similar. For electrolysis you use an anode in the solution with your part, and negative hooked to your part and positive to the anode.

I have an Electromark etcher also, it uses electrolyte to etch metal. Some people make their own, some buy it. It uses up to 24 volts to etch. They recommend 15 - 20. 15 is not too far off from 12v. As I said, I know people that have used a 12v computer power supply to do it, the reason to short the connection is so the power supply will stay on, otherwise you won't get any power from it.

Alan

Thanks Kevin. Much appreciated
.

@ Alan.

Thanks for the clarification - the process I and others are replicating is virtually instant so not quite the same thing - for anyone interested the one I saw a video of is marketed by " Tig Brush " - I agree that a 12volt supply is ample for long term electrolysis by submersion of parts for rust removal or possibly passivation ( I never tried this as my parts are mostly too large such as boat handrails ) as the voltage needs only be enough to support correct current per surface area for any given electrolyte conductivity.

noddybrian wrote:@ Alan.

Thanks for the clarification - the process I and others are replicating is virtually instant so not quite the same thing - for anyone interested the one I saw a video of is marketed by " Tig Brush " - I agree that a 12volt supply is ample for long term electrolysis by submersion of parts for rust removal or possibly passivation ( I never tried this as my parts are mostly too large such as boat handrails ) as the voltage needs only be enough to support correct current per surface area for any given electrolyte conductivity.

Thanks Brian, I'll look that up and learn more about it.

Alan

weldin mike 27 wrote:Thanks Kevin. Much appreciated
.

sorry for the delay , been very busy


30v 10 amp dc cc CV power supply

the carbon tow is from Fibreglast.com

when I have more time I'll post more info and maybe a video

Thanks a lot. And you use the citric acid?

Best, Mick

Thanks a lot. And you use the citric acid?

Best, Mick