Total noob but Anxious to learn

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:10 am

I recently just bought a stubby gas lens kit for my 17 series torch and tig 200 I have had some furick cups in 8, 12 and BBW. The reason I went with the stubby gas lens kit was so I can learn how to walk the cup because I found it hard with the furick glass cups... My welds look like complete crap now and I have played with gas, cleaning the tungsten, rebuild the torch head multiple times made sure everything was clear and flowing correctly the only thing I can think of is I switch to blue tungsten from purple and my tungsten grinder has a diamond disc. I haven’t change that but I don’t know if that’s a contamination or not? And thoughts?

I’m also practicing on razor blades to save money but I seem to be blowing through the razor blade on arc start no matter how late I am on the pedal.

Pic.. left stubby gas lens, right BBW!

cj737 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:09 am

Glass cups (Pyrex actually) aren't suitable for "walking". They will crack. Stubby cups can walk, although, it really is easier with the longer-nosed cups until you become practiced with the technique.

If you are a totally new welder, practicing on Razor Blades is a Fool's Errand. Get some 1/4" or thicker material, and learn the fundamentals first. Make beads with no filler to establish your arc length and torch angle. Then, introduce filler rod into the equation, running beads. Then stack them (overlap). Then work on horizontal beads. Then uphill.

Walking the cup is easier to learn to do on a fillet weld too, mores than a flat sheet (in my opinion). But it really is a technique that lots of welders never use as it is primarily associated with pipe welding and socket welds. But definitely a No-No with Pyrex cups.

If you are running a #8 lens, then you want to run 15-18CFH on your argon. With the #12, closer to 25CFH.

If those pics are of razor blades, then they are stainless steel and the discoloration is normal. If not, then it would be helpful to know metal you are welding...?

Mike · Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:42 am

Welcome to the forum.

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:10 am

Thank you for the quick reply! The metal in that picture is 16 gauge exhaust pipe I believe it is 304 stainless the weld on the right was using a BBW I was not walking the cup and the one on the left was using a gas lens That I just picked up from the weldmonger store its a Ceramic cup. It just seems like my weld isn’t as shiny with the new cup... I also wasn’t cleaning the pipe between welds and there was quite a bit of welding passes made so maybe the stainless is starting to cabon... I was just trying to lay down as many beads as possible but I will see if I can find some scrap over the weekend to practice on it. It’s kind of been a combination of that exhaust pipe and the razor blades So that I’ve been practicing with.

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:11 am

Mike wrote:Welcome to the forum.

Thank you Mike!

cj737 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:37 am

I hope that exhaust pipe was unused when you began welding it. If not, the contamination on the inside will badly discolor your weld.

Stainless is very prone to discoloring due to heat while welding. Grab a stainless brush and hit the weld immediately while hot and the shine will recover.

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:29 am

cj737 wrote:I hope that exhaust pipe was unused when you began welding it. If not, the contamination on the inside will badly discolor your weld.

Stainless is very prone to discoloring due to heat while welding. Grab a stainless brush and hit the weld immediately while hot and the shine will recover.

I’m pretty sure it was a new scrape but it’s badly sugared on the inside now! Lol

The only changes I made were switching from the furick BBW to a weldmonger stubby #7 and #8 glass lens and purple to blue tungsten... and that’s the difference pictured... so it’s got me wondering if I installed it wrong or if I need to swap out diamond wheels on my tungsten sharpener... or if it was just too much sugar and I just got unlucky at the time of the conversion. Thanks again like I said I’m gonna get some 5/16 plate or something to practice on and I’ll let you know if it still happens.

ljdm1956 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:00 pm

Guess there's two ways to look at this. Learn to walk before you run, weld 1/8, 1/4,etc, master that, then weld harder stuff, like razor blades. Or, learn to weld something really hard, like thin razors, if you can master that, thicker metals should be a breeze. But learning on thin stuff won't help learning about penetration on thicker stuff as much. Something to consider.

cj737 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:45 pm

The BBW cup requires a very high argon flow rate. Do you recall what you had yours set to?

Assembly should be: torch head, insulator, lens, O-ring, cup. Depending upon whose gas lens you used, getting the O-ring to seal is tricky because some lenses do not have the slot, only threads on the lens body. The Pyrex cup needs to be pressed tightly against the insulator too. I don’t see where Purple or Blue will matter on DC, and your grinding wheel is unlikely the issue. Im betting CFH was too low.

A picture of mine for reference. Notice the O-ring slot?

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:47 pm

cj737 wrote:The BBW cup requires a very high argon flow rate. Do you recall what you had yours set to?

Assembly should be: torch head, insulator, lens, O-ring, cup. Depending upon whose gas lens you used, getting the O-ring to seal is tricky because some lenses do not have the slot, only threads on the lens body. The Pyrex cup needs to be pressed tightly against the insulator too. I don’t see where Purple or Blue will matter on DC, and your grinding wheel is unlikely the issue. Im betting CFH was too low.

A picture of mine for reference. Notice the O-ring slot?

I have the exact same set up as you do with the BBW that set up works just fine I was running 15 to 20 CFH but when I switch over to the number eight pink cups supplied in basic stubby kit that’s when my welds look like shit

cj737 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:59 pm

The single picture I see shows that the stainless was too hot for the crappy looking weld. It’s very hard to say with the limited info and pictures.

Poland308 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:25 pm

Take a picture of your standard cup set up. You may need a different teff spacer.

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:22 pm

Thank you for all the help gentlemen I believe that I was set too high at 100 amps versus 80 for 16 ga I e double checked my setup here are some pictures

cj737 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:31 pm

80 is still too high for your amps. 16 gauge is approximately 0.064 thick. Using the 1 amp/.001 formula, you’d want a maximum of 64 amps. With stainless, it’s even lower. Try 45-50 amps max.

In your Fupa cup picture, the O-ring looks split? Is it just the glare of the flash?

Higgahardy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:53 pm

cj737 wrote:80 is still too high for your amps. 16 gauge is approximately 0.064 thick. Using the 1 amp/.001 formula, you’d want a maximum of 64 amps. With stainless, it’s even lower. Try 45-50 amps max.

In your Fupa cup picture, the O-ring looks split? Is it just the glare of the flash?

It’s just the glare. I appreciate that advice I’ll give it a try at a lower setting! Pic is the first time ever walking the cup!