Welding Tips and Tricks

Hello guys,

Strange thing today on my welding. I had some stainless door handle covers about 1 1/2" in diameter and 1/32" think. A bit like a thin walled bushing.

I thould it would be a good thing to weld them together to get some practice.

I can't say it went verry well. But i found out that a setting on my welder (Arc force) had influence on my tig welding. I thought (and read it in the manual) that it is a setting for stick welding.
The two holes are made with a second of arc power with everithing as low as it goes. th (accept arc force) The little dot is made acr force also as low as it gets. This way i can "weld on the 1/32 stainless. With the arc force high it's verry difficult.

Anybody the same experience with there machine? Or is it normal? I placed some pictures of the holes and spot and the machine and manual.

With arc force turned off--what's the result when quickly 'blipping' amp control?

Hmmm...I was under the impression that ARC force was something that was only done for stick.

I'll try adjusting mine, I had it set around 30% when I was tigging yesterday.

My machine is marked 'Stick" on the panel for ARC force. Maybe it depends on the implementation by the manufacture, but I don't think mine is active during tig.

I think it would be bad for tig to have ARC force as it compensates for low voltage when the arc gets short. With tig however, most people control the amperage with the pedal. I'm confused...

My TA 186 automatically bypasses the arc force in tig mode. But other machines I’ve used it did make a difference. Can’t remember what difference it made but I know some machines tell you to leave it turned all the way up or down depending on the manufacturer.

Arc force increases the amps as the arc length decreases. I would just turn it off and control the amps with your foot pedal

I had the same issue when learning to tig, really noticed when I tried aluminum. Arc force also known as "dig" on my machine, can be very useful for stick and mig but it about ruined my day when I was on a project and didn't realize that's where a good majority of my problems came from.
Lesson learned

I don't think the function has any effect on decent brand name machines as while showing a couple of people with Millers how to set them up for tig I went through the menus & noticed arc force set fairly high & commented as I know they only run 7018 stick - they had know idea what it did or what it should be set on - while on tig we could see no difference with it at different settings - however on all the Chinese POS welders I tried you need to turn off any function that is not actively being used as they have all sorts of weird issues - I know an importer here that was working with a university to try & re-write the circuit on an early import machine he intended selling but any change they made to correct it's quirks resulted in creating a new one - he gave up in the end - there is a reason the imports are about 1/10th the price of a real welder - for some stuff you can live with them but a second hand genuine brand is a better bet in my opinion.

Thanks guys, good to know I'm not the only one with this experience. I'll keep the knob at 0% when I am tigging.

I've tried some aluminum and welding alu just got a hole lot easier! The difference is bet big. I got much more control. No more arc force when I'm tiigging!

noddybrian wrote:I don't think the function has any effect on decent brand name machines as while showing a couple of people with Millers how to set them up for tig I went through the menus & noticed arc force set fairly high & commented as I know they only run 7018 stick - they had know idea what it did or what it should be set on - while on tig we could see no difference with it at different settings - however on all the Chinese POS welders I tried you need to turn off any function that is not actively being used as they have all sorts of weird issues - I know an importer here that was working with a university to try & re-write the circuit on an early import machine he intended selling but any change they made to correct it's quirks resulted in creating a new one - he gave up in the end - there is a reason the imports are about 1/10th the price of a real welder - for some stuff you can live with them but a second hand genuine brand is a better bet in my opinion.

Holy Moly! No import bashing here, huh? I'd rather deal with a quirk or two when welding with a machine I can afford, then not be welding at all. I drove my daughters car recently, went to start it, huh, oh, don't need a key, just push a button. Damn, still won't start. Oh...... gotta step on the brakes at the same time. Whose dopey idea was that? Damn import cars. But - it will last forever, and sure beats walking. See the analogy? Better than not welding/better than walking. Whew! Got that off my chest. Done. Haters out there - flame away.

ljdm1956 wrote:

noddybrian wrote:I don't think the function has any effect on decent brand name machines as while showing a couple of people with Millers how to set them up for tig I went through the menus & noticed arc force set fairly high & commented as I know they only run 7018 stick - they had know idea what it did or what it should be set on - while on tig we could see no difference with it at different settings - however on all the Chinese POS welders I tried you need to turn off any function that is not actively being used as they have all sorts of weird issues - I know an importer here that was working with a university to try & re-write the circuit on an early import machine he intended selling but any change they made to correct it's quirks resulted in creating a new one - he gave up in the end - there is a reason the imports are about 1/10th the price of a real welder - for some stuff you can live with them but a second hand genuine brand is a better bet in my opinion.

Holy Moly! No import bashing here, huh? I'd rather deal with a quirk or two when welding with a machine I can afford, then not be welding at all. I drove my daughters car recently, went to start it, huh, oh, don't need a key, just push a button. Damn, still won't start. Oh...... gotta step on the brakes at the same time. Whose dopey idea was that? Damn import cars. But - it will last forever, and sure beats walking. See the analogy? Better than not welding/better than walking. Whew! Got that off my chest. Done. Haters out there - flame away.

Yea! What he said!

Hmmmm...i dont think there is any rule against import bashing, and personally, i dont think he was bashing anything.

Truth only hurts if you try to hide it. I think you have just pointed out two sides of the same coin. No point in hiding it because it’s knowledge everyone who’s looking to buy a machine needs to be aware of.

ljdm1956 wrote:Holy Moly! No import bashing here, huh? I'd rather deal with a quirk or two when welding with a machine I can afford, then not be welding at all.

I concur. I also have a cheap import, and I got pretty much what I paid for after looking closely inside. I got the service and support that should be expected on such a machine. I hope to get a Miller Dynasty one day, but just can't even swing a used one at this time, so content to be like you, welding on a machine I could afford.

ljdm1956 wrote:Better than not welding/better than walking. Whew! Got that off my chest. Done. Haters out there - flame away.

Not intending to flame you, but to point out that we as customers also dictate where our money goes, and as more of it goes into cheaper import solutions, we will see less made in U.S.A. I've been replacing the accessories with Made In U.S.A. when possible, because I can always keep them with another machine, and sell the imported accessories with the machine if/when I decide to sell it.

I'm not unhappy about my machine, but like to be a realist about it, and looking at some of the components and assembly let me know that I got what I paid for, nothing more.

There's a huge difference between a company like Miller or Lincoln over import distributors that merely turn over product, at least Miller and Lincoln have pioneered many welding related products, where the imports have merely copied the ideas. That is not innovating. Now even Miller and Lincoln are being driven offshore to try and compete. The $64k question is if the import companies can compete at the same level with an imported product. Smaller import companies don't have the capitol to do the same research, the same innovation, something some of the American and European companies have been doing for the past 40 or 50 years or even longer.

To your car analogy, I will use Apple as an example, because Apple took several products to China but were able to produce product better than other competing companies manufacturing in the same plant. It can be done, but it is not easy. You need to have knowledgeable people overseeing the process, keeping the quality up to the level you need, making sure the packaging is what you would do on your own product...look at the MacBooks or iPhones that were manufactured in China. Not as nice as the old Apple products, but better than the competition.

My import welder came in a box that looked like brown Chinese toilet paper. I've seen similar boxes arrived at the customer smashed up with holes ripped in them...only proving my point about Apple packaging.

Alan

I gotta stop drinking, stay off my soap box, and stick to welding topics on the forums. That is the main reason I visit.

Wow - it's all good but I did'nt expect much support for Chinesium stuff from you guys ! - here's the thing - I work on farm & heavy equipment mostly - machining on pins / bushes etc / making replacement parts & welding on anything they break - not much need for Tig - but I also do some boat stuff & had always been able to use a former employers Tig if I had an odd stainless job come in - he shut down so I was reduced to using scratch start off a big power source in my shop but it was frustrating to keep stray arc marks off polished parts - at the time I had need of a Tig 1 or 2 times a year & then only small jobs - sometimes not that so I was'nt going out to buy something expensive - I looked around but could'nt find anything second hand so bought an import almost identical to the OP's welder - there are dozens of versions of this in various color casings with different stickers on - I had it a while now & it's still working so can't complain really - original cost was exactly 1/10th of same size Miller - it mostly gets the job done but is only doing light intermittent work in a shop - the build quality of mine & every other one I seen is a joke - if you put it in a truck & carried it around it would fall apart - there are boards hanging by components - soldering by 5year olds - I could go on but won't - bottom line is if looked after / treated gently they will do a turn & weld so are better than not having one - just don't expect too much - they all have quirks - all the ones I seen have bad / harsh arc starts / are unstable or won't hold an arc at low power especially on AC - the list goes on - but if you never welded with anything better or don't have the money to it melts metal - I seen quite a few now as people have brought them to me that can't decipher the Chinglish instructions enough to use them - all bought off Ebay so no support available - I do believe though that if a company sends out specs & drawings the Chinese can build a good product & so long as that company is going to provide back up then buying an import makes some sense outside of a production setting - if I can't find a good deal on a brand name I may go this route with " Rtech " or possibly " Parweld " when funds allow - to all those with an import that arrived intact & has'nt leaked smoke ( yet ) if your happy with it at that price point great - carry on welding ! & now & then we all need a rant ! now do I need more coffee or is it less ? !!