[RPat]

Hello all:
I had a little time to play with my new HTP 221 Invertig welder recently and attempting to lay beads on a flat piece of 4043 aluminum plate (scrap) with 1/16" and 1/8" 4043 aluminum rod. I can't seem to get the plate to start a small puddle to start adding rod to it. I keep the heat on the plate to the point of "blowing a hole" thru it but before that point I just can't seem to see the molten puddle before it blows.
On another occasion, doing the same as above and before it blows thru the plate I attempt to add rod to the plate but it only "balls up" and never melts into the plate.
I'm using the recommended settings for the HTP Tig for aluminum so I'm at a loss as to what is happening. The DVD makes it look soooooo easy.
I'm using the MIG on aluminum with a spool gun very successfully so I thought TIG would be a piece of cake but not turning out that way.
I'm new to TIG so all suggestions are welcome.

[Farmwelding]

Can you share all settings and thickness of material and possibly some pictures. Overall with tig you can not add filler metal until the puddle has formed except with silicon bronze/any brazing because that defeats the purpose and creates a mess.

[Rupes]

Are you seeing the cleaning action when you light up on it?

[cj737]

Make sure your machine is set to AC, not DC
Make sure you clean the flat stock well with a stainless brush and acetone before welding
Make sure you wipe down your filler rod with acetone.

A 1/16" tungsten for aluminum will only serve you well for very thin metal to weld against. Aluminum requires a great deal of amps to weld. A 3/32 or 1/8" tungsten will likely be better. A smaller cup (5 or 6) tends to be easier/better to constrain the gas coverage. A tight arc and a balled end with your tungsten.

Other questions that need answering:
What size cup?
What type of tungsten are you using?
How much Argon?

If you're trying to weld a thick piece of aluminum (1/4" or more) than you'll need some serious amps. Perhaps try a pre-heat with propane first, then weld.

[RPat]

Great suggestions and questions. I'll need to gather all the data asked for, along with pics and return later. THANK YOU GUYS!!

[Oscar]

With Aluminum, the details are super critical IMO. I filled in a couple. The rest are unknowns at this point.

Machine: HTP 221
Amperage:
Tungsten blend/size:
HF/Scratch/Lift Start: HF
Filler rod alloy/diameter: 4043 1/16" & 1/8"
up-slope/down-slope times (if applicable):
AC balance (if applicable):
Pulse Parameters (if applicable):
EP/EN currents/ratios (if applicable):
material thickness:
joint configuration:
pre-weld Material prep:
torch size/style + air or water cooled:
Shielding gas composition:
Shielding gas Flow CFH:
Std or gas lens collet body:
cup size:
Tungsten stick-out past cup:
arc length:
tungsten taper/profile:
pre-flow seconds:
post-flow seconds:
pictures/videos of torch angle, travel direction, speed descriptions:

[exnailpounder]

Your arc length is too long. Mic drop...

[noddybrian]

Maybe too thin / too small a scrap piece - too long an arc & not enough amps in combination so entire piece heats up before achieving a puddle - suggestions if you believe you have suitable settings on machine get a piece 8" square of 1/8" material - give it 150ish amps & try getting a puddle not right out on an edge - come at least 1" in - if you still don't see a shiny puddle form then it's likely a settings thing & several members here have your machine so can advise - maybe take pics of front panel settings - also starting to learn Tig on aluminum is not as easy as it looks in video's ! I'd try learning basic skills on steel first unless you are already proficient with gas welding.

[RPat]

1/8" scrap plate aluminum: examples of effort so far

Screenshot_2.jpg (46.56 KiB) Viewed 3610 times

Thanks all for the suggestions. Here are the HTP settings:
ARGON: 30
H/F: on
pulse: off
AC:on
2T
Slope down: .1
PRG: .5
POG: 6.0
F: 65/200amps
B: 65/200 amps
Note: As you can see by the pic, not a pretty site. I have the HTP set at 200 amps with the settings above. The rod metal seems to ball up and doesn't melt/flow into the plate. I can go back after the ball has cooled and attempt to reheat it and "push" it into the plate but I've seen that not work either.
The cup is a normal size 17 cup (I'm new so I'm not sure how to describe it further). It's not a stubby cup.
Tungsten: using 1/16" and 1/8" "grey" tungsten from HTP (likely chinese made). I'm not exactly sure what type of tungsten I should be using for aluminum.
I also realize that starting on aluminum is likely not the easiest, my thought process has always been: get a grip on the toughest first, the rest comes easy. Is it the best way to go? Likely not but that's how I mastered the MIG on aluminum. (Mastered likely a strong word, "works well" would likely be a better term.)

[Oscar]

That pic makes it look like you're on DC. With out filler, can you get a nice shiny mirror-like puddle?

Also, why are you using so much argon? No stubby cup needs that much argon flow. The size of the cup should be printed on the side of it. You typically need 2-2.5x the size of the cup in CFH. A #6 cup would be 12-15 CFH.

Without seeing you weld, I'd have to agree with others: you're holding too long of an arc, tilting the torch wayyy too much, and your babying the pedal and are likely trying to use 4-10A. Hold that torch straight, tilt your head, keep the tungsten 1/8" from the base metal and no further, mash that pedal down. See if that doesn't get you started.

[RPat]

Thanks for the tips. At my first opp, I'll try your suggestions. Thanks again.

[RPat]

Guys/Gals: I've read that the tungsten makes a HUGE difference when welding aluminum and most of the Chinese brands are less than desirable quality. What say you? Do you recommend any specific tungsten brands?
Thanks

[exnailpounder]

Guys/Gals: I've read that the tungsten makes a HUGE difference when welding aluminum and most of the Chinese brands are less than desirable quality. What say you? Do you recommend any specific tungsten brands?
Thanks

I have used several brands of tungsten and have never noticed any quality issues. At least any issues that would cause me to question the quality of the tungsten or make a huge difference on aluminum. Opinions will vary on this. I just got some 2% lanthanated from usaweld and it was cheap and holds up really well. I just got some different 2% Lanthanated Miller brand and it has split on me a couple times. No telling nowadays. Just went back and looked at your post from yesterday. You never did say what thickness your base metal is. You are having gas issues, based on all the black soot I see. Your filler will ball up if your amps are too high for the size of filler your using. Try just getting a puddle going without using any filler and let us know what happens. I would highly recommend practicing on mild steel before advancing to aluminum. There is a pretty steep learning curve to Tig welding and by starting out with aluminum, you are making it way harder on yourself.

[noddybrian]

Sure HTP users will understand your settings but half of it is gibberish for most of us ! what the heck is pog / prg / f / b amps meant to be ? I believe the machine has many advanced features but during the learning process you need none of them - without wanting to sound rude it's hard to tell from the picture what is going on but it's not going well ! a lot of soot so either gas issues or dipped tungsten - if one of us stood behind you glanced at the machine settings & what your doing it would be easy to correct but harder to explain on paper without seeing it - however here goes.

1 is the gas pure argon - not mixed as used for Mig - set flow to 15CFH - confirm it is coming out at ceramic.

2 clean the metal with stainless brush

3 clean & slightly sharpen tungsten - while some hold a point better than others any type will do in a pinch - Chinese is not that bad but if you think it's this buy a stick of brand named stuff to try - 2% Lanthanated is good all round but I would use whatever you have & only change if you rule out all other more likely variables - make sure you sharpen with grind marks the correct way - 3/32" is your most useful size that covers most jobs but wound right up on AC your machine will really want 1/8"

4turn off all weird functions / memories etc so no up slope / down slope / pulse / independent amplitude - make sure your on AC - normal square wave is fine - AC balance around 65% EN.

5 find a decent size piece that will not over heat too quickly - 1/8" is ideal as thinner requires much more accurate heat control & much thicker may trick you into not using enough amps - I understand for practice you'll probably use whatever you found / begged but measure it in thou add around 30% over & use this to set amps - now hold the torch upright with a short arc length & try to get a clean puddle & run it on the plate - don't worry about filler initially - if you still can't get a clean puddle report back with an update & hopefully a fellow HTP user may have the answer - if you can run a puddle on plate then try adding filler - keep rod angle low - don't use less than 3/32" filler as it balls easily - only try to add filler to the puddle not run the arc on the filler - be ready the puddle will gain height rapidly so be careful not to dip tungsten - if you do stop & grind - you will probably get good at grinding !

Good luck - eventually you'll wonder what the fuss was about when it all clicks !

[Oscar]

Guys/Gals: I've read that the tungsten makes a HUGE difference when welding aluminum and most of the Chinese brands are less than desirable quality. What say you? Do you recommend any specific tungsten brands?
Thanks

The only thing that could make a huge difference is if your tungsten is too small diameter. You said you have "gray" tungsten? That's what, ceriated? If so, should be fine. You're introducing wayyy too many variables here, and you're all lost as a direct consequence.

Take a picture of just ONE clean 1/4" diameter puddle on your aluminum plate. If you can't get this accomplished, then there's no sense in taking things out to left field. You need to be able to get just one single CLEAN puddle on aluminum. Also, you need to disclose all information that is requested before you attempt to throw more curved balls at home plate. We're trying to help you, but you're almost avoiding the advice and request for information it seems.

[electrode]

Maybe this will help??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuSNSp68l0U

[RPat]

GREAT suggestions! Thank you! I'm under a Dr's guidance currently and this is the reason I haven't posted any results from suggestions sent by everyone. I hope to be relieved of these limitations in the next 2 weeks. I will engage all of the suggestions posted here and then post more pics and results of my actions. It's killing me not to be able to engage and use the suggestions here but must be a good little human and listen to the Dr.
THANKS AGAIN ALL.........

[RPat]

Further: to answer questions:
The plate I was using was 1/8" thick.
Why 30 cfh of PURE Argon? That was a general recommendation. I will attempt the suggestions posted in this thread and see how it works hopefully within the next 2 weeks (after Dr. releases me).
The HPT settings I'm using were the HTP recommended settings for aluminum.
Sorry for overseeing the questions in this thread..................
Thanks again everyone for the help.

[RamboBaby]

If you nail a 1/8" aluminum plate with 200 amps it should blow through instantly. 140 - 150 is about all you're gonna need. You'll have to move a lot faster witb 150.
I'm with everyone else who are saying that you have too much arc length........WAAAAAY too much arc length. From the looks of things I would think that you have a stand off somewhere between 1/4" & 3/8". That does not and cannot work in tig or stick welding. The results with either process end up just like what you're showing. Mig welding is much more forgiving but you still end up with excess spatter if you don't keep a mig tip close.

[Oscar]

Further: to answer questions:
The plate I was using was 1/8" thick.
Why 30 cfh of PURE Argon? That was a general recommendation.

I don't think anyone is questioning the chemical element of the shielding gas composition, but rather the volumetric flow rate.

[weldit321@gmail.com]

Guys/Gals: I've read that the tungsten makes a HUGE difference when welding aluminum and most of the Chinese brands are less than desirable quality. What say you? Do you recommend any specific tungsten brands?
Thanks

This is with the cheapest tungsten on amazon (autobody now 2% lanthanated) You will get the technique down, It's all about seat time and trial and error. if something doesnt work try something else, and dont be afraid to play with the settings on your machine. If you are just practicing then try new things to see what you can and cant do. Enjoy it and keep working at it.

[raticus]

I'm new to TIG....

that says it all! No expert here, the rest of the crew here will give you all the best tips, but TIG is NOT something you just pick up and start laying nice beads down.

Some things I can tell you though...

Don't be concerned about the type of tungsten, the size of your tungsten, the shape of your tungsten tip, the cleanliness of your material, or the myriad of settings on your box... just keep it simple. For aluminum, just make sure you're set on AC (it should make a hell of a racket, if it's quiet, you're on DC).

Keep your ARGON set no more than 20cfm (around 15 is good for just about anything).

And forget about filler rod! First thing to learn is to get a puddle, ya gotta burn through that (whitish) oxide layer first, it takes a few moments. TIG is super sensitive to torch angle and distance. Set your max amps for the material thickness (simple rule is 1 amp for each .001 thickness, .125 1/8th inch set at 125amps, a little bit higher works great to give you some room to lean into it when needed).

Get comfortable, get really close to the material (if you're struggling with distance, before you hit the pedal lay the tungsten on the material, flip your helmet down, lift the torch up so ever slightly off the material, hit the pedal)... then slam down on the pedal almost all the way, almost pedal to the metal (drag race car reference there... heh). Then watch it start to eat away at that oxide layer, and back off the pedal smoothly to start controlling the heat... in a few seconds the oxide layer should start to dissolve away and a nice shiny silver puddle will appear. Then start moving your torch forward in the direction of travel tilting your torch ever slightly back (pointing in the direction of movement, but only JUST so ever angled off from 90 degree vertical) moving in the direction you want to go, whatever is comfortable for you (I'm right handed so going from right to left is my most comfortable). Learn to continue that puddle, not too fast, not too slow. 1/8th inch is nice and thick to play with so you shouldn't be having a problem blowing through. Once you can get a nice long smooth straight puddle bead going, try a nice back and forward motion to get that rippled look, sort of a stack of dimes bead look. Move forward, then back a little... then forward, then back a little. Learn to control the pedal and your torch angle. Practice, practice, practice!

Then once you're comfortable with breaking through that oxide layer and laying a nice puddle down... THEN you can play with filler rod. Remember to add filler to the puddle, not too close to the tungsten, or it'll just ball up, bounce off the material and right into your lap... not as bad as steel as it'll probably cool off before it lands on your crotch, but still want to avoid molten metal on your private parts. Ha. And filler rod should only be added if you need it, so don't just start pushing it into the puddle too fast... just learn to dip it lightly and quickly back the filler rod away.... move the puddle forward with the torch, and repeat. Consistency is everything, so try counting in your head to match the filler rod dips... Try counting 2 seconds between dips... One one thousand two one thousand, dip... one one thousand, two one thousand, dip... Obviously what you see happening in the puddle should determine when and if you need to add filler, but this is just to learn some basic skills.

And remember, you WON'T learn it in a day... It's like trying to learn a martial art or boxing in a day... it won't happen. You'll get your ass kicked backwards and forwards and you'll get super frustrated... But just keep it simple, stick to the basics, learn to get a puddle, learn to control the puddle with a steady movement, learn to keep your torch angle correct and keep your tungsten from dipping in the puddle or too much arc length.

Don't worry about anything else... Practice, practice, practice. Then all the fine points that the experts will give you will let you fine tune your welds... and then you can play with thinner stuff... then it gets fun, or not fun... cursing is mandatory. Beers help.... ENJOY!

[raticus]

oh and my mistake, I misread the original post... thought it said the material was 1/8th inch... 1/6th inch is too thin to learn on... switch to .125 and practice on that first. Is it Beer:30 yet?

[exnailpounder]

oh and my mistake, I misread the original post... thought it said the material was 1/8th inch... 1/6th inch is too thin to learn on... switch to .125 and practice on that first. Is it Beer:30 yet?

I'm waiting on beer30 myself

[electrode]

oh and my mistake, I misread the original post... thought it said the material was 1/8th inch... 1/6th inch is too thin to learn on... switch to .125 and practice on that first. Is it Beer:30 yet?

Are you sure you haven't been drinking already? Actually, he was using .125 scrap plate as noted in post #9 on the first page. He was using .0625 and .125 4043 filler as mentioned in the first post. Very good explanation though in your previous post. I too am waiting on wine30. (it's good for the heart, you know...)