[vjp174]

Hi all, new to the forum but have been lurking and learning here for quite some time. I'll try to be brief. I got into welding with a Tig just over a year ago because I wanted to learn how to do it. My first and only machine is an Everlast 160sth. I've learned a lot and feel like I'm pretty good having done some repairs and some art type stuff. So now I think its time to move on and learn some more about welding Aluminum so its time for a AC/DC machine. My budget is $1400 so here is what I'm considering. 1) Everlast 185dv 2) Everlast 200dv or 3) LE Squarewave 200. I have researched the AHP 200X. Although my Everlast has been reliable, the imports concern me because of the procedure to have it repaired (shipping, downtime, etc) is potentially troublesome.

I tend to research the heck out of stuff almost to the point of obsession so I am pretty familiar with the specs on each machine. I'm leaning towards the LE because of the brand name and think I'd perhaps be moving up in quality over the Everlasts. Sticking points are the fixed post flow in the LE and the lack of control over background current which I believe is set at 50%.

So if I had questions they are 1) is the fixed post flow, which might be as high as 15 secs at max amps, just going to be a huge argon eater that I will definitely notice ? 2) Are the lack of some of the more sophisticated controls like on the 200dx going to hinder me to a point ?

I have looked at numerous posts and done searching about these topics. I'm interested in actual users of the SW200 and if they feel they are needing/wanting/lusting for more controls then the SW200 gives them.

Again, I'm just a hobbyist, perhaps advanced amateur who enjoys learning about welding and feels its time to step up to an AC/DC machine.

Thanks for replies and such a great forum. I've learned a ton here already.

[LtBadd]

Hello vjp and welcome to the forum
Since $1400 is your budget it seems you have answered your own question as you seem to prefer to stay away from the imports.

As for the advanced controls, again your budget limits what you can purchase to begin with. Consider also that AL has been successfully welded for decades before these advanced "inverter" features became available.

The Everlast units can be purchased thru Home Depot, and I believe they will handle the shipping if warranty work is needed, you may even be able to buy an extended warranty thru HD...check to see if this is true.

You don't give a location so I'll assume you're in the US where argon isn't so expensive as other parts of the world. There are many who have bought the LE machine and are satisfied with it.

[MosquitoMoto]

Hello and welcome vjp.

I support all Richard has to say, but I will add one more thing. I jumped right into the deep end with my first Tig - or at least, I thought I did. ACDC inverter, pulse, multiple waveforms, lots of adjustability. Very, very happy, and up until recently, I didn't think I'd change a thing.

However...

Now and then I find myself looking for more amps (aluminium eats lots of amps!) and seeing as my machine is limited to 210 amps AC, my only options are to add helium to the mix (expensive) or upgrade to a 250 amp or better machine (even more expensiver again).

I guess what I'm saying is, think hard about your $1,400 budget because if you limit yourself to 200 amps or thereabouts now, your purchasing of Tig welding machines might eventually become a 3 step process instead of a 2 step process.

Cheers,



Kym

[FizHD]

Greets,

I'm no welder by any means. I have the LE tig 200. bought the "garage pack". 210mp and tig 200 because they came with $599 rebate. Couldn't resist.

My other reason for LE was local support.

I have had a couple friends use the tig and they were impressed. Although as stated, aluminum does require a lot of amps, and liquid cooled to run thicker and longer weld times. I guess it depends on what you are going to be welding. I have just started playing with alum. I really enjoy it! Only playing with 1/8" at the moment. The 200 is rated for 3/8". I don't do enough welding at this point to be concerned with the gas usage as mentioned not having control over it. I would be nice if it was adjustable. But then why would you spend more on a better model? LOL

If you think you will be welding thicker material, then you might want to wait until you can afford a bigger machine. I didn't want to wait so I went for what was in my budget

Good luck in your decision.

John

[vjp174]

Thanks for all the replies so far, I'm hoping there's more.

While my budget is $1400, I don't have to spend all of it. Like I said I've had good luck with my Everlast but do wonder how long I'd be without it should it break.

Do you all think the Lincoln would be a better buy then the Everlast 200dv even though the Everlast has more advanced features. I don't think I'd ever try and weld anything over 3/8"ish.

Maybe another question would be just how often do people adjust some of the advanced features on machines more full featured then the Lincoln.

Thanks again

[cj737]

Regarding the opstflow of Argon - typically these machines set 1 second per 10 amps of postflow. This is important to cool your tungsten, and/or protect your weld (depending upon metals being welded). Recently someone on here did an analysis of how many seconds of argon a 300 cu.ft supported, divided by amount of time of postflow, divided by welding hours, etc... His analysis demonstrated that preset postflow of 10-20 seconds had no adverse expense on the utilization of argon.

For my part, I set my postflow pretty high, especially when welding with more than 150 amps. And when I weld at 200 amps, I manually cycle more argon across my air cooled torch (17 style) to cool the cup and the tungsten. So in the end, I would not let that issue dissuade you from a machine.

Lots of folks like all the machines you mention. The Lincoln is a squarewave only AC a TIG box, and that should support you very well as a hobby welder. Limited to 200 amps, I doubt you'll notice the advanced features of the other units, except on some that also offer pulse on AC and DC. These can be useful for thin material.

[MosquitoMoto]

Tough questions...so much will depend on the type of welding/projects you are undertaking.

I have been Tig welding around 18 months and I have now used virtually all the advanced features on my machine - various waveforms, pulse, AC frequency, up and downslope, 2T/4T, all that jazzerooni.

Of all of these, I personally have found widely adjustable AC frequency very useful and I also regularly make use of both AC and DC pulse. Your experience may differ.

I am not at liberty to say that the Lincoln is a better buy than the Everlast, but I think it's probably safe to say that you will likely experience better/prompter/easier after sales service with the Lincoln machine. You have to decide for yourself how much value you place on that.



Kym

[vjp174]

Hi Kym,

What kind of welding do you do where you take advantage of all the advanced features ? Just curious...

[vjp174]

Regarding the opstflow of Argon - typically these machines set 1 second per 10 amps of postflow. This is important to cool your tungsten, and/or protect your weld (depending upon metals being welded). Recently someone on here did an analysis of how many seconds of argon a 300 cu.ft supported, divided by amount of time of postflow, divided by welding hours, etc... His analysis demonstrated that preset postflow of 10-20 seconds had no adverse expense on the utilization of argon.

For my part, I set my postflow pretty high, especially when welding with more than 150 amps. And when I weld at 200 amps, I manually cycle more argon across my air cooled torch (17 style) to cool the cup and the tungsten. So in the end, I would not let that issue dissuade you from a machine.

Lots of folks like all the machines you mention. The Lincoln is a squarewave only AC a TIG box, and that should support you very well as a hobby welder. Limited to 200 amps, I doubt you'll notice the advanced features of the other units, except on some that also offer pulse on AC and DC. These can be useful for thin material.

Hi CJ737, The Lincoln will pulse on AC and DC but it is set at 50%. I'm trying to determine if not having that adjustable is going to be a big deal for me or if the 50% is a good all around setting for what I will be doing with it.

[MosquitoMoto]

Hi Kym,

What kind of welding do you do where you take advantage of all the advanced features ? Just curious...

Hey there.

Having a good range of AC frequency adjustment is something I find handy for helping focus the arc. For instance, if I want a narrow bead I will often crank the frequency up quite high.

I have found pulse very handy for limiting heat input when welding thin aluminium. It's also very useful when DC welding steel and taking on jobs such as building up the edges on a thin workpiece - the pulse really seems to help you stack beads one on top of the other. This has helped me repair damage to steel tubes in the past. Triangle wave is also useful for limiting heat input.

Finally, up and downslope adjustment is very handy when welding out of position. Setting it to slowly taper off the amps over, say, 3 seconds means you can use a torch switch and move around a part, limiting heat when you need to, buying some time to reposition without killing the arc altogether. A flexible alternative to automated pulsing when you can't use a pedal but want to retain some heat control.

Of course a good amount of operator skill will also achieve much of what I've mentioned above without resorting to bells and whistles, but I find my machines advanced features both handy to have and fun to explore.



Kym

[C. Livingstone]

The AHP AlphaTIG has all of the features of the LE and Everlast 200DV, at nearly half the price of either ($750, delivered, via Amazon).

So, that's what I usually recommend for a proven, best-value, 200 amp AC/DC TIG machine at any price, unless you want more advanced features, like wave forms, memory function, CPS, etc.

[vjp174]

I thought I would report back. I went ahead and picked up the Lincoln. If anyone cares or perhaps someone is considering a similar dilemma , my thought process was this. The Lincoln is a high quality machine that should be more reliable than an import. If anything goes wrong I have local support-I purchased it from a local LWS store. The dealer knocked the price down a little to make it a little more in line with what I could of got it for online from an on line retailer where I wouldn't have to pay tax or shipping. He even threw in a pound of 4043 and a ss brush. I guess if my welding improves or I get to a point where I need or want advanced features, the re sale on the lincoln should be better then an import. I might be wrong with all this but im pretty happy so far.
I did set up the machine and did some dc welding. Nice arc and great pedal. Ac tomorrow. Thanks for all the input.

[Rudy Ray]

Congratulations & best of luck with your purchase.
Glad to see you chose American Made.

[C. Livingstone]

Yeah,

You'll undoubtedly dig that new Lincoln digital TIG unit, as so many others already are too.

[ttreb4]

Congratulations. I'm in a similar spot. I have a couple of MIG machines and have been welding for a couple of years teaching myself to weld by watching videos and talking with local welders. Now I'm wanting to learn to TIG weld. I would like to stay around the 2K range for a new TIG welder. I just can't justify spending over 3K when 90% of my welding will be 3/8" or less. Occasionally I will be welding up to 1/2". I usually switch over to stick when i get above 1/4". I have been leaning towards the LE square-wave 200, but I have seriously thought about the Everlast 210EXT. My issues with the Everlast is with the lower quality torches and foot pedal. All of the reviews have said to upgrade those two components.

My other question; would it be worth it to just go ahead and get a water cooler with either machine and upgrade the torches?

[MarkL]

I've had the Lincoln Square Wave 200 for about a year. As far as argon cost goes, I did a calculation to see what it cost me, and even at homeowner prices for argon in my area, it costs about $.01/min at 15cfh flow. So I decided if I buy one less can of mountain dew per month, I can pay for the argon. Mine actually flows about 12s at 120A, so it's pretty reasonable. At lower currents when you're tacking, that does "waste" a lot of argon, but it turns out to be a small amount of money.

I do find myself wanting to change the pulse settings, which as you know are fixed. I do a lot of relatively thin stuff around our farm, like gates, corral panels, hinges, etc. So being able to adjust the pulse would be really nice. I took 3 semesters of welding at the local community college, so I've used the most expensive machines from Lincoln and Miller, down to the 200DX. I'd say it's easy to get overwhelmed with too many controls and options, I was totally lost in the beginning. It takes quite awhile to get enough experience to know when to use all those features, so for hobbyists or semi-pro use, it's probably better to not have so many options.

I think you'll find that for welding aluminum, the air cooled torch gets so hot you can't weld very long anyway, so the duty cycle isn't that big a limitation anyway. I've never seen anything to convince me that the other wave forms offered much benefit, so no loss there. The newer feature on some inverter machines that combines DC- with AC for Aluminum seems to make a big difference, probably worth it if you weld aluminum for a living.

You didn't mention it, but for me being able to run either 110v or 220v was very important, so that eliminates a lot of machines. One of my main uses is welding out in the barn, so it's really useful to be able to plug it into 110v.

I added a dual regulator because I think back purging really helps with things like thin wall tubing where a small bit of contamination can have a big impact, especially since I'm not a professional, so any extra shielding helps.

I think the thing I would most like to have is a water cooler, so if I had it to do over, I'd probably look for a used system that had a water cooler. It seems to me that people buy these tig welders and sell them a year later without hardly using them. There's some great deals around here in the chicago metro area, I'm sure you've noticed that. I think the AHP and Everlast are both good options, I wouldn't hesitate to buy either.

[vjp174]

Thanks for the reply Mark L. I've just played with the machine for the past two nights both on dc and ac. Everything seems to be going as expected. I was wondering about one thing though. I've noticed when I step on the pedal I get about a one second pause before the arc initiates. I was originally using the supplied e3 tungstens when I noticed it. I then switched to 2% lanthanated and didn't notice the pause as much. Is this because of the 25 amp start? Have you noticed this pause also? My only other experience tig welding was with my ever last 160sth so my database of tig knowledge is limited. Just wondering if that is normal ?

[Rupes]

Theres a pause on my tig (different brand) but thats for gas pre flow. And on occasion I need to take the foot off the pedal, touch tungsten to work piece and try again.

Grats on the new machine though and I think you're right regarding resale. Just keep a cover on it when not in use, blow the dust out of the vents once in a while. Don't think you'll have any issues getting back most of your money if or when you outgrow it.

[MarkL]

I was wondering about one thing though. I've noticed when I step on the pedal I get about a one second pause before the arc initiates. I was originally using the supplied e3 tungstens when I noticed it. I then switched to 2% lanthanated and didn't notice the pause as much. Is this because of the 25 amp start? Have you noticed this pause also? My only other experience tig welding was with my ever last 160sth so my database of tig knowledge is limited. Just wondering if that is normal ?

Yes, the arc start is annoying, I forgot to mention that. There is a pause and then quite a harsh arc start. I would guess it's because they've set the preflow to some relatively high value, which is actually a good thing, but kind of distracting. So if you use a more expensive machine that gives you control over the preflow, you can make it behave like this if you turn the preflow up higher than about 1/2 second. I normally touch my pedal without striking an arc to get the gas flowing, and then move into welding position before I actually strike an arc. That ensures I have good shielding coverage. The other thing that bugs me a bit is when I try to taper off at the end of the weld, it's also a bit harsh and I think that's because it uses the same 25A starting current when it turns the current off, but I'm not sure about that. They clearly had to make some simplifications to sell a quality machine for such a low price.