Welding Tips and Tricks

Hi

I got two alternatives of Fronius MagicWave welders to choose between. Both are AC/DC

200Amp @ 60% 160Amp @ 100% This one comes with foot controller and cost like 1400$ less
450Amp @ 60% 360Amp @ 100% This one comes withOUT foot c. and cost 1400$ more

If the smaller one was a 250A it would be an easy pick, but since being kind of in the lower range suited as AC-welder. And the other one is missing out on the foot controller and are 1400$ more expensive. The question is, is it worth that much more money for the bigger one, and how dependant should one be of a foot controller? Is it possible to live without it for thinner sheets.

Both welders seems to be in good/mint condition. And its the older type, the new magicwaves has a digital front, and these have manual knobs which I like since getting an easier overview and you don't have to dig in to the panel and guess which does what. They are inverters and both are three phase, the 200A requires 16A inlet and the other 32A - but I think it maxes out on 25A or so..

And the weight for 200A welder is around 100kilos and 134kilos for the bigger one.

price for the 200A would be like 2200$ total with foot controller
Price for the 450A would be like 3600$ total and missing out on foot controller

So which are the best welder for me?

I don't know what usage I will have for the welders, but I want to have the capability of welding cracked engine cases and suck in moulded aluminium. And a good all-round TIG machine.

It kinda sucks that there is so big step between the machines. One seems to small for practical use, or buying a helium tube and get an extra material cost in gas, the other one is that much more expensive and lacks on the controller. (And they are quite expensive to buy as accessory)

Is it a good price for the welders? I Live in Sweden, and there aren't that many to chose between on the second hand market. The 450 is lowered from like 5500$ to 3600$ if I act fast.

Two questions to consider...
Do you have enough available power in your shop to run a 450A machine?
Can you purchase a foot pedal for the 450? I would think so, and if you intend to weld aluminum I definitely would!

Alternately, the 200A machine is quite capable. The features of the Fronius make it comparable to a 250A in less able brands. 200A will weld damn near anything in DC, and unless you expect to weld a lot of aluminum over 6mm it will serve you well in AC and you can always add helium for an occasional heavy section.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:Two questions to consider...
Do you have enough available power in your shop to run a 450A machine?
Can you purchase a foot pedal for the 450? I would think so, and if you intend to weld aluminum I definitely would!

Alternately, the 200A machine is quite capable. The features of the Fronius make it comparable to a 250A in less able brands. 200A will weld damn near anything in DC, and unless you expect to weld a lot of aluminum over 6mm it will serve you well in AC and you can always add helium for an occasional heavy section.

Steve S

Thanks for your reply.

I could probably have the power for the welder, at least 20Amps out of 25Amps that the welding machine is specified. So if I can't use 450amps for periods, I could probably use like 380Amps before blowing the fuse at the shop.

I'm thinking of building a foot controller. I actually saw a thread about the fronius pedal were someone posted pictures about the internals. Or I will wait for one to come out on eBay for a good price. But as of now I almost couldn't even afford the 450Amp welder itself. Since it's 1400$ more expensive. So if I could get some good use of the 200Amp that would be easier on my budget, and let me buy some decent collets and gaslenses. But I don't need a complete setup as of now. So I probably could buy the bigger machine and collect the accessories over time. But only if it seems like a great deal? It's lowered from 5500$ to 3400$ just by my offer. They seem quite expensive new too...

But will I manage to get a puddle in like cast aluminium on engine cases and such? I'm thinking of harley engine cases and mopeds and such repair jobs. Or would I be better of buying the 450 in that scents?

Hej å välkommen.

Is a watercooler included? If you want to use the 450 machine to its extent you need a watercooled torch even for DC.

The 200 you can get away without on DC and shorter runs on AC with a large 26-torch.

Look up SSC pedals, they make them to fit most machines on the market to a fair price.

Make sure you can test the machine before buying. A fried fronius PCB is pricey...

I've been welding Volvo engine block with my 200 amp machine, with a 9 torch. Of course 200 amp AC fried the torch head but they are easy to replace.

AndersK wrote:Hej å välkommen.

Is a watercooler included? If you want to use the 450 machine to its extent you need a watercooled torch even for DC.

The 200 you can get away without on DC and shorter runs on AC with a large 26-torch.

Look up SSC pedals, they make them to fit most machines on the market to a fair price.

Make sure you can test the machine before buying. A fried fronius PCB is pricey...

I've been welding Volvo engine block with my 200 amp machine, with a 9 torch. Of course 200 amp AC fried the torch head but they are easy to replace.

Hi and thanks.

Both come with water coolers. I can't test the 450 since it's in germany and many miles away. But I think it will be alright.

Yeah,

I'd go the smaller, less expensive unit. It's turn-key and ready to go on aluminum since it comes with the pedal, which you'll want for AC on aluminum. On DC, a pedal is not that important. And, most machines will take an aftermarket pedal, but some, like certain ESAB models, will not since they have a CAN bus or have been designed differently enough to be proprietary, probably to get a patented mini-monopoly for the pedal alone. And those pedals can cost four or five times the norm.

And, if you ever do out-grow the 200 amp unit, I think there will be a bigger resale market for the smaller unit. But, for the stuff it sounds like you'll be doing, the 200 amps will probably be fine, and there's always helium that can be added for increased heat output, as was mentioned.

It's cool that the water coolers are included too.

Please let us all hear when you get one of these units, how you like it, and maybe some pics too!

helipop wrote:Hi

I got two alternatives of Fronius MagicWave welders to choose between. Both are AC/DC...............


Both welders seems to be in good/mint condition. And its the older type, the new magicwaves has a digital front, and these have manual knobs which I like since getting an easier overview and you don't have to dig in to the panel and guess which does what. They are inverters and both are three phase, the 200A requires 16A inlet and the other 32A - but I think it maxes out on 25A or so.................................

if I act fast.

Is this a similar front to the machines you are considering ? +1 on Ander's suggestion to make sure if you can test it.

https://www.1stopweldingshop.com/Catalo ... 035-WM0188

I used one of these for some time and it required going into the menu, using the torch 2T /4T switches to change some settings and values. When I converted it to use a Weldcraft style WP 20 torch, the original Fronius torch cable had to stay connected to make changes, according to the manufacturer. I was not impressed with their service (and this was in Austria!) and have experienced the same in Switzerland.

In my opinion they are over complicated, expensive and not at all user friendly.

kiwi2wheels wrote:

helipop wrote:Hi

I got two alternatives of Fronius MagicWave welders to choose between. Both are AC/DC...............


Both welders seems to be in good/mint condition. And its the older type, the new magicwaves has a digital front, and these have manual knobs which I like since getting an easier overview and you don't have to dig in to the panel and guess which does what. They are inverters and both are three phase, the 200A requires 16A inlet and the other 32A - but I think it maxes out on 25A or so.................................

if I act fast.

Is this a similar front to the machines you are considering ? +1 on Ander's suggestion to make sure if you can test it.

https://www.1stopweldingshop.com/Catalo ... 035-WM0188

I used one of these for some time and it required going into the menu, using the torch 2T /4T switches to change some settings and values. When I converted it to use a Weldcraft style WP 20 torch, the original Fronius torch cable had to stay connected to make changes, according to the manufacturer. I was not impressed with their service (and this was in Austria!) and have experienced the same in Switzerland.

In my opinion they are over complicated, expensive and not at all user friendly.

Hi, I have never actually read a bad thing about fronius until now. The link you sent shows the newer type of magicwave series. And yes I've almost bought one just like that 2600 = 260amp welder. But the welders I'm talking about is the previous versions with knobs only. It looks simple and you get a good overlook of the settings.

I have come across a third fronius, also a magicwave 450 with foot controller and a separate puls control included, and also for a better price. So it will probably be the welder I buy. And it has 4 months of guarantee. Best of both worlds, lots of amps and foot control. I will get back as soon as I buy one, and send pictures. it's gonna be some fronius i'm certain. I've read that it's a very small brand in the US, but in europe it seems to have a really good rep. But the service might be bad. But at the same time, this unit that I'm gonna buy will have like 20+ years of age I bet.

Looks like an easy choice then, with the last one entering the game

Fronius is considered as one of the best so you won't be disappointed. I've only did shorter runs on one of the digital magicwaves but felt like super smooth start and really good arc control.

helipop wrote:
Hi, I have never actually read a bad thing about fronius until now. The link you sent shows the newer type of magicwave series. And yes I've almost bought one just like that 2600 = 260amp welder. But the welders I'm talking about is the previous versions with knobs only. It looks simple and you get a good overlook of the settings.

I have come across a third fronius, also a magicwave 450 with foot controller and a separate puls control included, and also for a better price. So it will probably be the welder I buy. And it has 4 months of guarantee. Best of both worlds, lots of amps and foot control. I will get back as soon as I buy one, and send pictures. it's gonna be some fronius i'm certain. I've read that it's a very small brand in the US, but in europe it seems to have a really good rep. But the service might be bad. But at the same time, this unit that I'm gonna buy will have like 20+ years of age I bet.

That sounds a win, win.

This is the actual welder. Now I've paid for it and now I need to wait a couple of days for it to get to Sweden. Exciting to see how it turns out. I haven't had any chance of testing it, but the company that sells it says it comes with 4 months of warranty. I haven't even seen any more photos, I just know that there will be the foot controller as seen laying on top, and also the pulse controller that is also connected to the foot controller in series before hooked up to the machine itself. And a new welding torch, a WP18 and collets and some rods i guess. But I already have some welding craft lanthanated in different sizes. And I guess that will be my all purpose rods.

The separate controllers seems to be quite expensive. So I guess that this was a bargain. Also like 400£ cheaper than the first mw450 alternative. But I haven't seen the duty cycle chart on the back of the machine, and I suspect that this might be an 40% @ 450A and 100% @ 360A as opposed to the first alternative that had 60% @ 450A. Also this welder is missing out on the self balling feature that was on the other machine. A function that with ease makes a ball at the end of the electrode, you just set up the diameter of the tungsten on a dial and then fire up an arc and it makes it ball up. But since switching polarity is just by the turn of a knob I guess it will be just as easy either way. But I wouldn't say no to that feature though...

Anyway, thanks for the moral support. I will get back with pictures once arrival..

A few days of anxiety ahead then before the fun starts

Greetings from Norway, helipop

I have recently bought a new Fronius MW2200. I am pretty happy with the machine, but to be said; I am brand new at welding

The only problem that I find with the Fonius is that the connection they use for the hoose pack is their own type. Fronius F, I think it is called. That makes it more complicated is you want to use third party torches like CK.


Sent from my Commodore 64

@ EtronX

There are adaptors available for that model to run proper torches. I guess you mean the water flows through the Dinse connector.

If you have no luck sourcing locally , try https://www.tpsweldtech.com/

They could do you a CK torch as well.

I'm a big fan of all things CK, for quality and modular construction, and am in love with the flex-loc torch for the endless awkward positions I weld. I'd been asking for one at work since they were introduced. I finally shared Jody's demonstration video of the flex-loc with my supervisor and the owner of the company, and had one two days later. Thank to Jody for that!

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:. I finally shared Jody's demonstration video of the flex-loc with my supervisor and the owner of the company, and had one two days later. Thank to Jody for that!

Steve S

Good one Steve, the power of the 3rd person in sales!

kiwi2wheels wrote:@ EtronX

There are adaptors available for that model to run proper torches. I guess you mean the water flows through the Dinse connector.

If you have no luck sourcing locally , try https://www.tpsweldtech.com/

They could do you a CK torch as well.

On my machine the gas flows through the Fronius F connector. I will check the link for adapters. Thanks a lot for the help


Sent from my Commodore 64

EtronX wrote:

kiwi2wheels wrote:@ EtronX

There are adaptors available for that model to run proper torches. I guess you mean the water flows through the Dinse connector.

If you have no luck sourcing locally , try https://www.tpsweldtech.com/

They could do you a CK torch as well.

On my machine the gas flows through the Fronius F connector. I will check the link for adapters. Thanks a lot for the help


Sent from my Commodore 64

My memory is disappearing along with my hair....It's been over four years since I was using it, it was a water model cooled.

If you don't find it on the link, call them. I dealt with Keith at their Alton branch. It may be easier to contact him direct, as he used to be on the road a lot and the shop staff are not the brightest. Have PM'd you his mail.

kiwi2wheels wrote:

EtronX wrote:

kiwi2wheels wrote:@ EtronX

There are adaptors available for that model to run proper torches. I guess you mean the water flows through the Dinse connector.

If you have no luck sourcing locally , try https://www.tpsweldtech.com/

They could do you a CK torch as well.

On my machine the gas flows through the Fronius F connector. I will check the link for adapters. Thanks a lot for the help


Sent from my Commodore 64

My memory is disappearing along with my hair....It's been over four years since I was using it, it was a water model cooled.

If you don't find it on the link, call them. I dealt with Keith at their Alton branch. It may be easier to contact him direct, as he used to be on the road a lot and the shop staff are not the brightest. Have PM'd you his mail.

Thanks a lot, mate


Sent from my Commodore 64

It took a while

Very nice unit.

I'm trying to refit TR50MC into MW450 panel and looking for schematic.

Could you perhaps post a few inside pictures of the TR50-1 remote?
And perhaps trace out a simple schematic?

Seems a bit different than the TR50MC, range selector switch is already inside the MW450, but has 2 LEDs instead.