[Oscar]

I'm about to open the package in a little while, but yea they're here.

Let's see a video of your wire feeding prowess...

Let me see what I can do, lol. No promises though

[entity-unknown]

I'm waiting with anticipation Oscar I still have yet to melt any more claws and I've been cranking up the heat more. With your skillset I'm thinking you really might like these. Once you get down to about 4-6 inches of filler I'm thinking a pair of needle nose vice grips is still a winner. I tried just holding it with gloves but F' that. Way too close for comfort and with the needle nose I can at least be left with about 1/2 inch of filler. So the TIG Monster Claw is still workin wonders for me up to those last few inches then it's time for the hard tool..... That's what she said

[Oscar]

Sorry to say, but these are far from useful in their current state;

The part that slips over the glove only gets over the first 1cm of my glove. In no way does it "stay put". Novel ideal, but no way can I make them work. If you only feed rod at a nice perfect 10-15 degree angle from the vertical, say for bench welding flat joints all day long, then maybe. For everything else, forget about it.

I will say, that the idea behind is all may have some merit, to reduce required hand/finger dexterity to aid in learning how to feed filer, but this would have to come after much studying the kinematics of the human hand and running many large, controlled sample groups with monitored data to review. Things like this take years to develop. One critical part missing is the "check valve", or some kind of mechanical-diode for one-way movement. During my long OCD tig practice sessions, I've noticed that [using traditional wire feeding techniques] to feed filler from certain angles where gravity is completely against you (or even partially), regardless of the various hand-forms that one's hand takes, there is always a "pinching" or "holding" action that holds the filler in-place in the hands of the operator while the advancing-mechanism "resets" to then grab another section of rod to begin advancing again. You can't always see these things watching videos because a lot of times demonstration videos have to use "easy to see" camera shots, where the person doing the welding is also the person holding the camera, and God knows who is holding the TIG torch, LOL!. Next time you practice your rod feeding technique(s) with your hand(s), pay very close attention to the particular "pinching" mechanism your hand is performing. It is my opinion that this pinching-reseting mechanism is the source of [most] muscle-memory learning that has to take place in one's brain for rod feeding technique to be acquired. If there was a mechanical-diode somehow integrated into a much more compact, fully-orientable rod holder, then it could be very beneficial by eliminating the pinching aspect of the feeding process so one's brain can only focus on the actual feeding action by controlling the amount of filler addition without having to worry about other things. I better stop before my OCD kicks in.....lol

[MinnesotaDave]

Like I said - only useful for welding practice coupons - time is much better spent learning to feed rod with a persons hand.

I was welding a motorcycle frame (repair) today and at no time would one of these things worked.

I was feeding from all angles and sometimes over or under obstructions.

Keep trying though, I love the fact that people keep inventing things.

[rick9345]

Some times old school ways are just better.
Feeding rod can be shown,rarely taught.
It is an acquired thing.
Practice,Practice.

Effort to create something admired.

[entity-unknown]

Well dammit! Ha it's all good and I truly appreciate your review Oscar! These are some of the finer points I was hoping to hear and you didn't hold back. Good man
So just to confirm did you not use it at all because you couldn't get it over your glove? If so I'd be willing to print you out a larger one especially after that exceptionally detailed review and after seeing your skill set. Regardless you have many spot on and very logical points you mention. If it'd be more of a waste of time for you to try out another set, I won't be hurt at all.

As said for me it is working out but to Rick's point, I'm just basically doing coupons albeit a box and square tubing. It did help with a corner joint I tried but that was a massive disaster because I fed too much rod with far too much heat. It was like my third weld I tried so I can't really even say it helped or didn't. I am using a more normal technique and using my claws, and using vice grips dependent upon what I'm doing and just trying to figure out what's best although I believe the true answer is there is no "best way" or one way even when it comes to feeding rod. Still glad I made 'em and we still got another reviewer out there we're waiting on too

[Oscar]

Correct, I didn't even get to try it at all because it just wouldn't fit over my glove material. Even if it did, the lack of "something" keeping the rod from sliding backwards would have prevented me from using it at a further point. Re-scaling it will do nothing for me----it's needs to somehow hold the filler rod in place without any user intervention to be useful, IMO. In other words, with the filler rod within the claw, if you shift an entire 36" length of 1/8" steel rod and have it completely vertical pointing up, the rod should not move/slide down under it's own weight. In fact, you shouldn't be able to retract the rod through the device what so ever---that is what will allow extremely precise feeding action. If you have to worry about your finger accidentally drawing the filler rod backwards as you slide your fingers backwards on it, then it just defeats the purpose, IMO. That is what I personally feel would would be a necessary property. Also, it just doesn't have to be a freakin claw, LOL. Why not something compact, where it can go securely over the middle finger, so that it can be fed with the thumb and index finger? That's how I would design one if I was designing one for myself. But then again, it all depends on the person's hand, because some people have larger hands and longer fingers than others. What works for one, will not necessarily work for others. It has be adjustable somehow since you don't have anyone else's hand there with you to trial fit it.

Oh and you give me more credit than I deserve for my "skillset". I'm maybe a 3 or 4 out of 10 on a good day as a tig'er, lol.

[entity-unknown]

This is wonderful input Oscar! Regardless, you're better than me which is what I needed. The key holes should allow you to hold it vertically but I haven't practiced with any vertical at all so that's just guessing. Your input really helps a lot and I'll consider it when I do the rebuild since this really is the Alpha version. Once Rick replies and I plan to send Jody and another person a set too so after I get their inputs we'll see if maybe I can't come up with somethin that'll be more useful. I'm confident it will never be a single solution since there's all sorts of ways to skin a cat and I think just like a screw driver, there might be a better tool in some situations. Still not for everyone

The reason it's a claw is only because I was looking around for something that might help me out because the carpal tunnal I have in my wrists from 16+ years IT Security Engineerin at 80-120 WPM has been brutal so feeding naturally becomes painful in a few minutes. With practice it still might curve it but we'll see. So the claw was actually a Halloween prop I designed for my girlfriend who's a professional fire performer. That's the middle claw for a full glove that's completely articulating and functional. I had a bunch of extras from failed prints so I tried it out and my wrists didn't hurt so I went with it. It was kinda cool seeing a Halloween prop I designed turn into a tool too

[nelson]

I bought that tigpen thing. Yeah, I know, more money than brains. I tried it with a glove but haven't welded with it yet.

[entity-unknown]

I've been curious about that tigpen too. The only issue I see is it seems limited to rod size. That was one idea behind this but Rick had a good point, V shaped grooves would be more accommodating and less friction than cylinder cut grooves. That's one aspect I have in mind when I re-design, and simplify this.

[Rick_H]

I got mine today, been swamped trying to get a project wrapped up tonight but tomorrow Ill give it a try...

['Stang]

I bought that tigpen thing. Yeah, I know, more money than brains. I tried it with a glove but haven't welded with it yet.

It works! I bought one years ago when I was in school. I was trying to learn to feed normally-but used the tig pen for tests to make things easier.
Still have it in my parts somewhere!

[entity-unknown]

Very patiently waiting Rick_H More patient since I'd prefer a patient thorough review than a rushed review I just hope the thing fits ya at the very least!

[Rick_H]

I was finally able to work with it a little I started with it on my RH since I typically feed with my LH, figured this would be the best case since I know what muscle memory can do. So far the angle is different then what I typically use, so it feels a little awkward but I am able to feed it forward, with the large claw shape I feel like I am too far away... just first impressions. I have some more things to do this evening at work Ill try, and tomorrow I have a home project I will give it a good run.

Should have seen my co-workers face when I pulled it out I got the WTF is that look, I was asked a few times If I had been watching Jurassic Park since it looks like a Raptor claw.

[entity-unknown]

It is a different distance which I liked for the hand being further away but I can imagine being used to bein so close, you'd feel awkward. I've gotten the claw about 1" from the work piece at 100Amps AC/aluminum a few times and I only burnt it once cause of arc control failure. Otherwise it didn't mind (melt) bein that close for about 1.5 seconds max so far. Have gotten light plastic melt on the rod from that though a couple other times and they showed up as pepper on top of the weld which wire brushed off easily so dipping the ABS didn't seem to be any real loss. I definitely appreciate the diligence in giving it a try Rick and kind of like me I hope it helps out with those hateful wrists!

If you use the groove at the thickest portion of the claw tip which should have the rod running almost parallel with the finger cover, it should give you the chance to get a pretty low/horizontal angle especially if you leave out a lot of rod past the claw. I've had pretty good luck with that and for me at least, I can feed damn near as much rod as I want, really too much. Checking some of my runs where I thought I was feeding too much but the puddle just never was quenched, I found massive dips below the surface since I'm working on the roof of a box so definitely way to much rod. That's at least a sign of functionality to me I'm finding using the index finger on top of the rod with the thumb and the index finger almost never really touching the rod, just a guard for when you move your thumb while moving your thumb mostly before the base/knuckle of the claw where those guides are and pushing up close to the base "knuckle" guide. Basically it's all about the thumb, and the index finger can relax for the most part. You can also still pinch with the index to feed too which is reliable but more work however doesn't seem to be much extra stress. So far that seemed to be the most reliable control and helped me slow down my feeding to a more controllable manner rather than using the full stroke of the thumb. If any of that makes sense.....

As for Jurassic Park, the claw portion of the model was borrowed from someone else on Thingiverse.com that made a perfect replica of the raptor claw so they're spot on and you can give them the single finger sign of appreciation
The finger cover portion was partly modeled after someone who made a model of Freddy's glove on thingiverse.com too. I make references of their projects including the remix for their models in the opening of this topic and at the thingiverse page for my TIG Monster Claw too.

Definitely can't wait for what you'll consider a final conclusion! I'm still using my set about 3/4 the time really only finishing the last 4 inches or so of rod with a pair of needle nose vice grips.

[entity-unknown]

I decided to see if my camera could handle it and it did ok minus a welding filter lense. Regardless this shows me swapping between left and right and some light feeding on a 2" steel practice drill. Still the n00b, so still learning but I'm glad I made this tool. It's definitely working out for me
https://youtu.be/n_Ha08EI348

[entity-unknown]

I did one more video to show the speed I can feed at with the TIG Monster Claw. It's nothing special and I can go faster, but hopefully this gives an idea as to the level of smoothness you can get. For reference, I'm running at 160 Amps full pedal on 1/8 mild steel plate ( thanks to the awesome knowledgeable members shunning me for not starting here )

Most can do better than me at this stage but I'd like to think this shows that you can get consistency once the operator is up to par. While you can't directly see the relaxed grip I have, nor how little effort I need to move that rod forward or retract if I wanted, you might be able to notice that I can lift my thumb and index finger without losing the rod. That was the most important reason I made this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMifQV_5Ows

[entity-unknown]

After a lot of testing, I have concluded this tool belongs on the Ring Finger! It takes the laziness away but the ability and control of rod feeding might be hard to beat without a machine.

The keyhole and basic rod guide path is all that's necessary i.e. I added a lot more to this tool than is necessary. Regardless as it is just swap to the ring finger and you might be pleasantly pleased that you can use your index, pointer, and thumb to deliver exceptional control. Perhaps unbeatable and I'm ready to stake this claim.
The feed and retraction speed that I can do just as a n00b is nothing like I've ever seen any Youtube teacher/expert portray.
While I plan to re-design a few points, I think that if you use the TIG Monster Claw and you switch to your ring finger, you might find limitless possibilities to feeding rod.

As for Oscar and his concern, please give your ring finger a shot and see if I'm full of crap. Use your pointer and middle to guide the rod, while you feed/retract with your thumb. It's a loose grip between the pointer and middle fingers with the thumb having all the control.

Can't wait for Rick and hopefully Oscar's replies here. Seriously though, moving the TIG Monster Claw to the ring finger and keeping the light grip between the index and middle finger for the rod while feeding/retracting with the thumb made a significant difference and truly convinced me that in the sense of laying fast beads with TIG, you will not find a better method beyond a mechanical device.

Please prove me wrong

[MinnesotaDave]

After a lot of testing, I have concluded this tool belongs on the Ring Finger! It takes the laziness away but the ability and control of rod feeding might be hard to beat without a machine.

The keyhole and basic rod guide path is all that's necessary i.e. I added a lot more to this tool than is necessary. Regardless as it is just swap to the ring finger and you might be pleasantly pleased that you can use your index, pointer, and thumb to deliver exceptional control. Perhaps unbeatable and I'm ready to stake this claim.
The feed and retraction speed that I can do just as a n00b is nothing like I've ever seen any Youtube teacher/expert portray.
While I plan to re-design a few points, I think that if you use the TIG Monster Claw and you switch to your ring finger, you might find limitless possibilities to feeding rod.

As for Oscar and his concern, please give your ring finger a shot and see if I'm full of crap. Use your pointer and middle to guide the rod, while you feed/retract with your thumb. It's a loose grip between the pointer and middle fingers with the thumb having all the control.

Can't wait for Rick and hopefully Oscar's replies here. Seriously though, moving the TIG Monster Claw to the ring finger and keeping the light grip between the index and middle finger for the rod while feeding/retracting with the thumb made a significant difference and truly convinced me that in the sense of laying fast beads with TIG, you will not find a better method beyond a mechanical device.

Please prove me wrong

You are full of crap lol

The Dunning-Kruger effect

[nelson]

Dunning Kruger...Dennis Miller would know that one, I had to G it. I've been guilty of that Often. On the up side, those who try nothing new and difficult needn't worry.
it's all just fun & games until you're getting paid for it...

[entity-unknown]

HAHA That was a good one and definitely impossible to argue with at this point!
Trust me in the fact that I don't expect anyone else to believe me and I can't say I totally believe myself because I'm keeping the Dunning Kruger (albeit I never heard of the actual term, just know the mindset) in mind. So yes there is some n00b excitement, but mostly developer excitement which could cloud some reality.
I can definitely argue the fact that it's making feeding rod easier for me and I can feed very steady and very fast with only the slide of a thumb.

I haven't seen more than 5 people feed rod in videos but I can say the methods they all show are awkward for the hand, and they all say it is too. I've never even read a single comment saying, something like "Holy shit, feeding rod is pretty easy, like no effort at all!" That's why it's recommended to practice even when not TIG'in. This was very difficult for me, and many others. I think it's one of the most challenging things in TIG IMO because it's the only thing that doesn't have a natural flow to it.
With this claw, I haven't spent much time at all practicing feeding or really even thinking about it. It's just VERY easy with this tool and seriously effortless for me.

Most people that have fed the "normal" ways would likely not even consider changing because we usually hate change. That's ok too, I know I'm very guilty of it. Windows XP, Windows 8, Windows 10, Linux upgrades, Smart Phones, I hated em all.... Well till I started using them
It's also a velociraptor claw on Freddy Kruger's finger tip, not something that resembles a tool at all so that doesn't help my case either

I also have no reason at the moment to ever consider learning how to feed a 36" rod without it because I can hold a rod and feed at any angle with this tool too. I'm already taking on just learning how to TIG which is an endless journey with more mountains than green pastures, so anything I can do to remove a difficult learning curve, I will do it!

Once the rod is about 6" long then I just grab it with the tips of my index/thumb or vice grips and go from there. I can feed up to about 4" left but the arc is right at the claw. It hasn't melted it that often getting that close but the few times it did was enough to say it's too close especially on say more than a 2" run with a lot of heat. ABS has a fairly high flash/melting which is why the TIG torch handles are made from it and the same is true for most things made of plastic that are close to high heats hence why almost all plastic components near an engine are made of ABS.

I will make another video to show just basics of how I'm using it and why I'm saying I can feed consistently, very fast, and very steadily. I'll demonstrate some odd angles as well to show that you can feed comfortably even when out of a comfortable position. From there I would definitely challenge anyone to show they can feed rod faster at any angle. I know I might not win that challenge but it's not a pissing contest either. I just want to see if it can be done and if someone can, then how the hell are they doing it because I'd love to learn another way too but no bueno for every way I've seen because my wrists just won't let me feed more than a few seconds till I'm thinking more about my wrists than anything welding related when using any of those methods. I'd also like to see someone feed as fast at any angle, without the rod bouncing much, because I don't really have that issue with this either even at 36". I think this would be a fun challenge too because for everyone out there feeding rod by hand without any tool, knows it's an art form so why not show it off, not just your welds

P.S. we're all full of shit, scientifically and metaphorically speaking. Also this is all fun and games for me because I will never pursue a career in welding

[nelson]

My first mistake was dipping tungsten. My second was not feeding the wire with my fingers, welding 3 inches at a time. The first was on me. The second made me think, There must be a gizmo out there and I bought one. Sadly it was just something different to learn.

Thanks e-u I printed your gizmo (I trimmed it back a bit so as to get no laughs)

But don't be surprised when you see me watching TV with a glove and a foot of wire going back and forth until it's automatic.

I guess TIG wasn't invented when they did The Caine Mutiny or Bogey would've been practicing rod feed instead of rattling a couple ball bearings in his hand on the witness stand.

Would a rubber patch on the glove thumb help?

[entity-unknown]

Hell yeah thanks for printing it out and I hope you like it! I'll be patiently but eagerly waiting to hear your thoughts on how it works for you too I'd really like to think there isn't much learning to this thing at all but that's what you and Rick are here for! And anyone else that will eventually say how it worked out for them...
If you're a Large glove, printing it at a 1.08 scale has worked out for me and Rick said his fit well but Oscar had a large glove size, and says it does not fit his middle finger. I'm waiting to see what he says about the ring finger. I think 1.28 or 1.20 scale for an XL is about right but I have yet to have someone try one on.

As for the rubber patch, I'd advise against it. You're just using pressure and you want to be able to slide your thumb back without retracting the rod to grab and feed more. The rubber would likely grab it more and catch it unexpectedly. Who knows though you can give it a try and it might be an upgrade! It's a light or full lift off with the thumb to grab more rod and with the index/middle finger acting as another rod guide (keep em relaxed basically no pressure on the rod with them except maybe when you lift the thumb but it's not usually necessary when running flat) you can safely lift your thumb and the rod should stay in place. You can even let go with the index/middle and just thumb feed but once in a while you will stumble and the rod will move unexpectedly. It's not the end of the world since usually your work piece will help catch it but it's all about precision right?
If you're running horizontal, I have no experience yet, but it should be the same as any other situation so you're still keeping it fairly parallel to Earth with a slight upward angle which should honestly keep the rod in it's guides even better since gravity is working more to keep the rod in the claw guide paths.

I did watch TV and practice feeding with this as I was designing it but gave that up before I started my first TIG'in experience. I can't say it's hindered me in the slightest either. If I was manually feeding, then I'd still be practicing daily I'm sure. Yeah, I did develop this before I ever laid my first TIG bead...

I started out with a lot of tungsten dipping whether in the puddle or stabbing it with the rod (I'm generally kind of shaky) but I think I've only dipped a few times in probably more than my last half of learning which is probably about 2-3 total hours under the hood now.
I personally owe my claw some credit for the lack of dips I believe too because the rod is never bouncing on me like it does when I go manual. A full 36" rod will have some bounce in the back where it has the most fulcrum action, but even that is pretty minimal and so long as you got a steady hand, or even slightly shaky one like me, the rod that feeds out stays very stable and I can "rod out" almost a foot with no bounce with pin point precision. Haven't gone further because that's very unnecessary, but I do enjoy having the ability to keep my feeder hand comfy and as far from the puddle as possible. I usually keep about 3-6" out past the claw and using the ring finger now, I can lay the rod pretty much flat on the table when doing basic beads which helps me keep a more 90 degree torch angle too.
If you turn the claw so the tip faces towards the ceiling then you can run very flat and a bit more comfortable too. I'm only seeing turning the claw like this useful if you want to be completely perpendicular to torch and parallel to the plate.

If you want to do vertical the key hole is kind of nice since you can completely let go of the rod and it will stay in the claw. The claw will hold the rod without you touching it in the keyhole whether vertical up or down with the rod feed direction with up to 1/8 Rod. I wouldn't get the arc closer than 3-4" to the claw i.e. no more than 3-4" of rod past the claw if you're gonna do this especially if you're running uphill (heat rises).

Yeah I type a lot if anyone hasn't realized yet.... But seriously Nelson, I look forward to your experience whether good or bad, let the opinions flow natural with no reserve! I love brutal honesty

[Oscar]

You're just using pressure and you want to be able to slide your thumb back without retracting the rod to grab and feed more.

Assuming I want to feel my own pulse in my finger from the squeezing action this thing has on my ring finger, LOL, part of my problem is that the material that my gloves are made of, some kind of leather, is just too slick. If I retract my thumb, it retracts the rod. If I let up so it doesn't retract the rod, the rod falls out of the grooves. It is 0.045" stainless rod, so it's not a "grippy" surface. See, you're still welding in the flat position with a 3/32" rod (maybe even 1/8". Perhaps what you say is true, that you can feed your rod at any angle---with 3/32" or 1/8" rod. I think that since I work on a variety of projects, or will be attempting so, I went into the deep end. Which is what I'd like for you to try: With your claw, try to weld up a 1" OD x 0.030" wall steel tube with 0.030" or at most 0.035" wire with your claw. Oh and not in the flat position and with nothing to rest your filler rod hand/wrist/elbow/entire arm, except for the actual tube you're welding. I think you will quickly see how it just won't work for me. Oh and make sure you take off your hands, and put on your Oscar-sized hands that has Oscar-sized fingers to make sure it is a fair comparison. Also, I noticed you're not really feeding the rod a whole lot, because it's a larger sized rod. You're "dabbing" at the weld, and when you use up some of the rod sticking past out the claw's edge, you feed in a little bit more. That's not really "rod feeding" by way of finger-induced advancing. That's simply "dabbing" and can be done with or without a claw. Same goes for the actual "through the fingers" feed done at the end when you run out of usable rod length past your rod feeding hand. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I do it all the time, as it's not easy to advance 0.030"-0.045" wire at the rate that it is sometimes needed, and you can't go to a thicker filler rod because that takes more amperage to melt, so it's not a go-to viable solution.

Again, neat idea, just far from ideal implementation to work for any random person.

However, I will say that if I put on my $5 Harbor Freight Hardy gloves that I use for other general purpose stuff, I can get some decent "feel" even with stainless which I scotchbrite very smooth and clean. But there's no way it improves what I already do, as the friction from pressing the rod against the claw or between my index and middle finger is greater than the friction between my thumb and the wire, so I can't really advance the wire by "brushing it" with the edge of my thumb, it just won't grip it. So there I go again, loosening up the index-middle finger grip to get feedability, at which point the rod will drop out of the claw/grooves for any angle other than the flat welding position.



Also, I wouldn't trust these gloves near a welding arc. Not only that, the wire is all over the place because with 0.045" and smaller wire, the grooves don't do anything as they're too shallow for thin-diameter TIG rod, especially for SS filler that is very very smooth (well if it's of any decent quality, that is ). I suppose I am purposely looking for anything and everything that I can find wrong with it, because in the "real world" meaning anything that is not flat, horizontal welding, where you have a bazillion different joints from metals from all kinds of thicknesses and curvatures and zig-zagging paths to hell-and-back, well that's where you realize the true draw backs. You have to drag a design through the shark infested waters to see if it will truly hold up for a situation that you could never anticipate.

[entity-unknown]

Hey Oscar! It sounds like you are more of an XL glove, not really a Large then so the upscale would have helped with the fit a lot.

I put this out there the way I did so I could get people like you to help turn this into something useful too so believe me every time I say thank you, I mean it! You've given wonderful input and nothing ever gets out of development and turns useful unless it gets heavily criticized. It's even an opportunity for someone else to take the whole design to a different level, and maybe less claw like if they wanted:D

I made smaller grooves for smaller rod but have never tried anything other than 3/32 and 1/8 so that's definitely debatable. I'd still like to think it'd work but with the cylinder shaped cuts, I can see it being awkward and maybe not as helpful as I'm finding it for what I've used. Rick_H had the awesome idea of using more like a V block guide instead of the cylindrical cuts which is one of the key things I'm doing in the re-design since this is after all the alpha model I think his idea will make a huge difference with your concerns with smaller rod. I honestly thought 3/32 was about as small as anyone really used when I designed this since I had never really looked at real welding videos, just training stuff. Real world vs. training I know!

I know the videos haven't really demonstrated what I'm talking about well enough except the first video around 2:29 when I show some feeding action. That's why I was planning on doing another video just demonstrating some other things but I think I'll take you up on some of your challenge and make it a part of that video. I haven't worked with any stainless yet but I'll do some regular steel and all I have for now is 3/32. But I'll see what I can come up with and we'll see what happens

I'm more or less done with running beads on plates with 3 lap welds under my belt. I'm now moving on to joining things so we'll see just how well I do...

This really is a fun process and you're awesome for tagging along! We've got Nelson and Rick_H trying these out too so we'll see what they're thoughts are soon too!