[Hollywood1]

First shock I had was from the filler rod on a.c. welding aluminum. Felt like someone hit my lefthand finger with a hammer, arm flew back with filler on the floor wondering wtf happened. Fun not.

[Hollywood1]

also, I had the o ring damaged from threading back cap on and, off a couple of times. I don't know if argon leaking right there could cause a problem or not. Just telling you all variables that I suspect caused my issues. I changed o ring as well. Hope this helps.

[exnailpounder]

The easiest way to fiqure this out is for the OP to try another welder in another place. A welding cycle should be a closed circuit. The arc initiates the circuit, and the current runs through the torch and the ground clamp and through the normal hot/neutral cycle of the electrical pathway. Millions upon millions of weldors, weld everyday without getting zapped so, obviously, there is something amiss in what is happening to the OP. Try another welder somewhere else and see what happens. Thats the only way to rule things out. Weldors work in all conditions, laying on the ground, underwater, grounded, ungrounded, leather gloves and electrically insulated shoes.....endless variables...and it is all relatively safe. There is a definite reason for the stray HF.

[Bill Beauregard]

The concept of intentionally touching the pedal before the tungsten is 1/8" from the work is foreign to me. Yes, I've had the ground come loose, ZAP. I've touched the pedal to adjust argon flow ZAP either to me or the table. I've had the hose caught on something, tug and arc to the filler in my hand. But, never while tending to business, and actually welding. Someone has said 1200 volts of HF. Based on the distance it jumps, (2") I'd guess higher. If it passes through air, a glove, shirt sleeve, or shoe is little obstacle.

[Bill Beauregard]

Would you say you are getting it from the tip of the tungsten, or torch hand?

[Hollywood1]

Apparently people do get shocked or Jody wouldn't have mentioned tig welding tip number 24. I don't know why it happened. I produce awesome welds all the time with this machine and can't remember last time I've touched down on the work piece. My tig machine was right next to the welding table. I would like to hear some more comments on this. John.

[motox]

do you have an another torch you can substitute?
craig

[Gavin Melville]

It can get worse, if you can picture this.

Earth lead to welding table. Work is insulated from table. Rest forearms on Table. Place filler rod close to tungsten. The other end of the longish filler rod is touching my ear. Depress foot pedal, HF ignition on. That little tingle we've all got through our gloves is not so little when your ear and head is in the path.

[motox]

do you have any other electrical problems in your shop. maybe
a loose earth in breaker box?
craig

[Coldman]

I've been looking into this one a little. Some of the synchos do have full time hf, not just for starting. I remember covering this extensively in college theory. My teacher said he personally witnessed several students being blown out of their welding bays by full time hf with the older machines until they upgraded to dynasties. You can't eliminate it but you can minimise it by earthing everything including your power source casing, workbench and any steel building structure and water pipes in the vicinity. Apparently can fry smart phones and pc's nearby as well.
Maybe time to upgrade to an inverter if the above is true.

[dunkster]

@exnail: Short of renting one, my machine is my only option right now.

@Bill: Hard to say for sure really, but I tend to believe tungsten since most hits are where glove and filler meet.

@Craig: No, no other torches to try here at the moment. And no known problems with shop electrical either...wish it were that simple.

@Coldman: My machine does have option for start only or continuous HF, but using AC, at least to my knowledge, requires continuous HF. And trust me, I've thought hard and long about moving to a dynasty. Got to try one out first.

Think this week I'll be sinking an earth ground and hooking both machine and table to it and see what I get.
If that don't do it, think I'll just burn everthing......

Thanks again for all suggestions...this place rocks!

[Bill Beauregard]

NEC 70 cautions against deliberately grounding the table. While it may or may not help with shocks, it risks electrical noise that may cause problems elsewhere in the building.

[Coldman]

What if the table was grounded to its own earth stake separate from everything else?

[Coldman]

This is what I dug up out of my old theory books:

HFa.jpg (72.72 KiB) Viewed 1266 times

HFb.jpg (85.95 KiB) Viewed 1266 times

[Coldman]

It does refer to NEC for table grounding so it must originally have come from an American source like AWS. Good ole Uncle Sam.

[Bill Beauregard]

What if the table was grounded to its own earth stake separate from everything else?

If I were doing it it'd be isolated from the other equipment ground. Remember, in terms of welder leads "ground is only a figure of speech. The two circuits; welding, and HF are not internally grounded in the welder. If the OP is indeed getting HF, and I believe it fits the description, it comes from one welding lead, and goes through his body to get to the other. He is a link in a chain forming a complete circuit. Grounding won't provide an alternate path unless something is internally wrong with the welder. I clamp the "ground" lead to the table direction of flow alternates. Sometimes from the table to the torch, other times from torch to work, then table. Both involve both leads. He's getting in between, and it involves two points of connection to his body. I'd guess the filler, and his hand resting on something connected to the work lead.

The only other scenario is capacitance shock. Human bodies are capacitive. When electrical pressure is high enough. Surplus electrons can jump to or from our bodies. Walk across a cheap carpet, and touch a doorknob. This is an example.

[Poland308]

Driving a ground rod depends on soil and ground moisture. If you sink a rod how well it works will be determined by many factors. You may need to pour water around your stake occasionally if you have sandy or dry soil. You may want to clean out your welder case. There may be dust or shavings causing a problem. I agree with one of the earlier posts maybe you are arcing to the filler rod and not the part. Have you considered wearing a thin rubber glove under your leather gloves? Ex a dish washing glove?

[motox]

not sure but isn't there a HF setting on the older syncrowaves
under the lower cover?
craig

[dunkster]

^^ yep, my machine has one...but have no idea what's considered a low setting. It's at 25 now.

[Bill Beauregard]

I had a Dialarc 250HF with similar HF to Syncrowave. Now I have a Dynasty. I don't see a difference in the two machines HF. HF is a secondary circuit sharing the same leads as the welding current. It is higher voltage, high frequency, but low current. I've never heard an estimate of amperage, it's low! We are accustomed to 120 Volt 60 HZ household power. This is different. Rules are different. A glove you might feel a mild tingle through at 120 is not an insulator for HF.

Human bodies are widely different in their ohm, or resistance value. I suspect it might be about moisture content, and electrolytes. Just my theory; I like salt, I drink lots of water, I conduct well. She, (an imaginary person) doesn't drink water, (she might have to pee), she hates the taste of salt, she doesn't conduct. In tests, the female tile setter, who has dry hands was a poorer conductor than all the men on the job. Second, was a plumber with zombie hands. God knows what chemicals had dried them that bad.

While pain tolerance will vary, Wattage will change not only your perception of shock, but frequency too. If I'm conductive, I'll get shocked more often than some old fossil. The fact that electrons find the OP a preferable path than the work is a puzzle.

[Poland308]

Let's get this straight. Did you just admit to shocking everyone on your job site?

[Bill Beauregard]

Plausible deniability is my mantra. No I used an ohmmeter with a AA battery. No tile setters were harmed in this test. Though I admit many others had thoughts about what they might like to do with/to her.

Truth is the loudest whining I've ever heard was a Mel Gibson type. He was "knocked on his ass" when he opened the door of his outdoor wood furnace. It tested 2 volts. His brother had installed his septic pump. No one else on the project could feel it!

[Poland308]

Now that's funny.

[dunkster]

I suspect it might be about moisture content, and electrolytes.

interesting...op does consume a lot of gatorade.

[Hollywood1]

Welded aluminum on a.c. today for aboutv8 hrs. No shock since I've been wearing coat. Hope u can figure your problem out soon. I've been more conscious of holding the filler back a ways before I light up. Thanks for all the tips and good luck. John