[WildWestWelder]

OK, this is my first post so I thought I'd start off with a question. I am leaning heavily in the direction of a Miller Dynasty 280, the full Miller package. Before I pull the trigger on this what are the good and bad things about inverter machines (as opposed to transformer based units). Are they everything wonderful or do they have drawbacks (besides price).

Thanks

[Olivero]

OK, this is my first post so I thought I'd start off with a question. I am leaning heavily in the direction of a Miller Dynasty 280, the full Miller package. Before I pull the trigger on this what are the good and bad things about inverter machines (as opposed to transformer based units). Are they everything wonderful or do they have drawbacks (besides price).

Thanks

I got a Dynasty 200 and I love it, been using it for commercial type stuff for years and its awesome.

You won't be let down I can tell you that much. Transformer type machines seem to be a bit outdated, not sure what the difference is but the Dynasty welder is awesome.

[cj737]

+2 for a Dynasty 280. Its a helluva machine. I also have a 200DX and love it. If it EVER dies, I'll replace it with a 280DX for the added amperage. The complete package with water cooler and cart makes for a very complete, ready to go setup. Buddy of mine literally just replaced his Lincoln IdealArc (about 10 years old, transformer) with the 280DX. He's in hog heaven with it. Under 50# so its still portable versus his 300# transformer box.

some noticeable benefits over his old machine:
Quieter
Smaller
Gas solenoid
Auto Fan
Advanced wave forms
Variable Hz
Pulse
Hot Start/Dig for Stick

These features may be available on modern transformer machines, but not on his due to age.

[MinnesotaDave]

Dynasty 280 would be pretty cool, my machines are a little heavy...need both hands to pick them up

The syncrowave 350 has wheels, so it qualifies as "portable"

The only real plus for the old machines is price: $225 for the one on the right, $1800 for the blue one.

syncro 350 airco 300.jpg (42.72 KiB) Viewed 2073 times

[exnailpounder]

I had a transformer tig machine and you could slice baloney on my electric meter. Transformers draw lots of power even resting. I sold it and got an inverter and don't even notice the difference in electric costs. I can weld at 210 amps and only draw 30 amps so you can run it on a smaller breaker. Transformers are great in some ways and inverters are great in their own ways.

[maker of things]

What ex said, except my electric meter is too small for baloney. I only have a 30 amp breaker available to my garage right now and I can max out my 210 on ac aluminum and not trip the breaker.

[WildWestWelder]

Hey, thanks for the replies! Sounds like there at no negatives. Ok, this is at the top of my toy list along with a Di Acro #4.

[Olivero]

While your getting all set up, Maybe Millers new T94 helmet would be cool too....

If you end up not liking it you can send it to me

[WildWestWelder]

While your getting all set up, Maybe Millers new T94 helmet would be cool too....

If you end up not liking it you can send it to me

I saw the price on it and my Jackson started looking good .... real good.

[WildWestWelder]

Is it true that you have more leeway on an inverter as far as tungsten selection goes?

BTW, what are the real advantages of an inverter over a tranny machine besides power savings?

[Olivero]

While your getting all set up, Maybe Millers new T94 helmet would be cool too....

If you end up not liking it you can send it to me

I saw the price on it and my Jackson started looking good .... real good.

hahha I got the titanium 9400I at about the same price as the T94... I wish I could trade it in

For your other queestion, I don't know about leeway, I was speaking to Diamong Ground Products earlier who do a lot of tungsten and he told me the inverter machines don't like all the different electrodes there are but just a select few.

I have had some success with the E3 but trying to find a more consistent result type electrode.

What type of stuff you welding?

[electrode]

Is it true that you have more leeway on an inverter as far as tungsten selection goes?

BTW, what are the real advantages of an inverter over a tranny machine besides power savings?

Just use 2% Lanthanated for most everything.

Frequency adjustments and wave pattern adjustments and portability.

[Farmwelding]

Is it true that you have more leeway on an inverter as far as tungsten selection goes?

BTW, what are the real advantages of an inverter over a tranny machine besides power savings?

Just use 2% Lanthanated for most everything.

Frequency adjustments and wave pattern adjustments and portability.

Yep more settings and adjustment, hell of a lot lighter

[hey_allen]

My understanding of the differences is more academic than from personal experience, but the only advantage that I've heard of for the transformer machines is their general durability.

Most have only a few moving parts, and often no ICs in them to fail. Dig one out of a dusty shed, dust it out and possibly clean the contacts and arc gap, start welding.

As far as inverter machines go, if it starts acting up, you may well be a the mercy of the OEM, which may or may not still have any stock of the failed part on hand. (I was looking at a used Miller a few years ago, and found that the control panel was failure prone on that particular model, and about $250 for the membrane keypad overlay that liked to quit operating.)

That said, the power efficiency and portability decided the matter for me, and I ended up with an off-brand Chinese made machine to learn TIG on.
I may eventually buy a name brand machine, if my skill and needs outgrow this one, or it quits in a manner that I can't repair.

[Lightning]

The only real plus for the old machines is price: $225 for the one on the right, $1800 for the blue one.

That, and they last forever.

Inverters, not so much.

But they whistle nice.

[MinnesotaDave]

The only real plus for the old machines is price: $225 for the one on the right, $1800 for the blue one.

That, and they last forever.

Inverters, not so much.

Good point, the old Airco is a 1963 model and works great.
Bought the 90's Syncrowave to see how they do in comparison as an upgrade - doesn't weld very much better on AC tig.
DC is the equal.
7018 the Airco wins.

[DennisCA]

Lots of people over here in scandinavia, even pros (disclaimer: I'm not a pro) seem to like old transformer-rectifier welders for DC welding, even over newer inverters. But only for jobs in the shop then... I figger it's because these machines are usually 3-phase (because that's how we power basically all things for which a 16A@230V outlet is not sufficient) and a 3ph rectified wave is quite smooth and nice so I think they can hold their own with an inverter and maybe it even has some pros then?

It's a good way for us hobby welders to acquire something good and long lasting for a fair price, as long as we don't need to haul it around! However if you wanna weld aluminum all that seems go out the window.

I do have an inverter however, made by Kemppi, it's 23 years old and still ticking. Even has HF, lift-arc and other functions.

[maker of things]

The theory is that transformer machines will last due to not having moving parts. However allow me to offer empirical evidence to the contrary. An friend of mine wanted a big ole' tig so I helped him find a 90s vintage synchrowave. He got it to his shop and was doing a couple test welds and could not get it to run right in ac. Fortunately it came from a used equipment place with a warranty. The place took it back and trouble shot(shooted?) it saying the switch for changing from dcen dc ac was corroded and they cleaned it and it tested good now. Got it back to his shop and it welded good for a couple days and again failed. They had not even moved position of the switch. The equipment place took it back and said the switch was totally bad, recognized that it had not been switched under load so they stood behind their warranty. Checked with Miller for a new switch. $1500! The equipment place had a second synchrowave so they took it out and thoroughly tested it and determined it too had a bad switch. They gave my friend his money back and scrapped both the machines.
Not saying a big old used machine is a bad idea, just that they can have problems too.

[MinnesotaDave]

The theory is that transformer machines will last due to not having moving parts. However allow me to offer empirical evidence to the contrary. An friend of mine wanted a big ole' tig so I helped him find a 90s vintage synchrowave. He got it to his shop and was doing a couple test welds and could not get it to run right in ac. Fortunately it came from a used equipment place with a warranty. The place took it back and trouble shot(shooted?) it saying the switch for changing from dcen dc ac was corroded and they cleaned it and it tested good now. Got it back to his shop and it welded good for a couple days and again failed. They had not even moved position of the switch. The equipment place took it back and said the switch was totally bad, recognized that it had not been switched under load so they stood behind their warranty. Checked with Miller for a new switch. $1500! The equipment place had a second synchrowave so they took it out and thoroughly tested it and determined it too had a bad switch. They gave my friend his money back and scrapped both the machines.
Not saying a big old used machine is a bad idea, just that they can have problems too.

I'm puzzled by this - to my knowledge the polarity switch, brand new, is under $400.

[maker of things]

I dunno where they got the pricing. Maybe the salesman lied because he didn't want to spend any money on the welder? I do know the welder did not work as a result of a mechanical part, and that was the point. Big old welders are sometimes dusty in someones shed because they are broken. YMMV. Not trying to discourage anyone, just thought I'd share what I learned.

[Oni]

This is what I went through in my own head about 6 months ago. Originally was going to get a Syncrowave because of simplicity and price (they are great machines). But the more I thought about it the inverter started to make more sense, adjustability, breaker size and portability. The one thing I would think about most is would a dynasty 210 or 280 be best? The extra amperage could come in handy, but the 280 is 208-480v input and the 210 is 120-480v input. So if you're not welding heavy aluminum and portability is a feature you really want the 210 might be better.

[exnailpounder]

This is what I went through in my own head about 6 months ago. Originally was going to get a Syncrowave because of simplicity and price (they are great machines). But the more I thought about it the inverter started to make more sense, adjustability, breaker size and portability. The one thing I would think about most is would a dynasty 210 or 280 be best? The extra amperage could come in handy, but the 280 is 208-480v input and the 210 is 120-480v input. So if you're not welding heavy aluminum and portability is a feature you really want the 210 might be better.

I have a Syncrowave 210 and I take it on jobs. Roll her right into the trailer with the bottle still hooked up. Great machine...does everything I need it to do. I weld 1/4" Ally with it all the time with a little pre-heat. Bells and whistles are great but in reality, not everyone needs all that stuff. I have access to a Syncrowave 350 at my buddies shop and haven't ever had to use it.

[maker of things]

If I'm thinking about this right, having a water cooled torch and a decent size argon bottle makes many of the welders equally portable. You pretty much need a cart to move the setup, so how much more portable is a dynasty than a synchro at that point?

[cj737]

If I'm thinking about this right, having a water cooled torch and a decent size argon bottle makes many of the welders equally portable. You pretty much need a cart to move the setup, so how much more portable is a dynasty than a synchro at that point?

A great deal actually. You can throw a Dynasty in the trunk or backseat of your car. Not doing that with a SynchroWave. A small bottle of Argon, Dynasty, torches and cables will all fit in nearly any car, boot or seat. Not saying that its the reason to buy it, but it is an advantage of it.

There have been times I've carted my Dynasty 200dx by car with my small bottle to help a buddy out on a small TIG project. I have a handful of plug adapters to mate to a long heavy extension cord so I can plug into their Dryer socket, Genie, whatever and get 220+ power.

The greatest decider for me would be future value. An inverter-based TIG box, especially a Dynasty, will hold its value for a long time. They are nearly bullet-proof boxes. I use daily a unit built in 2005 and the only thing I've done to it is have a relay replaced for $150. I wish it would die, so I could justify buying a new 210/280dx But even if you look at used prices for 200dx or 300dx units, they are more than 1/2 the cost of a new unit. Because they retain their value and keep cranking clean, stable arcs. You may not use the advanced Wave Forms if you don't have them, but having them permits you to use them if you encounter a project that benefits from them. Even Jody Collier continues to discover advantages from features in his Dynasty (and other welders). But they are more expensive to buy and that is a valid consideration. Amortized over 10 years, they pay back their purchase price pretty quickly in my book.