Having trouble Tig welding horseshoes - Page 2

donzi426 · Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Ok. I'll try lowering the gas. I'll also try to reach out to the ebayer I bought them from to see if they are cast or not. Thanks guys. Just remembered. While welding I see sparks flying around the weld. Maybe impurities.

donzi426 · Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:02 pm

Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

MinnesotaDave · Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:42 pm

donzi426 wrote:Just contacted ebayer about horseshoes. He said that "they are steel sand blasted. Great for welding, used on horses or other projects. "

I suspect a technique issue. It may be as simple as you created mill scale on the backside and when you went to weld it you did not compensate for it. I find more heat faster, and getting some rod in right away for the "cleaning effect" works.

I welded some heavily mill scaled flat stock to solid square stock that didn't have the mill scale removed because it would ruin the "rustic look."

I used 200+ amps and 3/32" rod. I went immediate full pedal to puddle quick and got rod in immediately - it all welded real nice and no grinder marks.

bruce991 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:19 am

FYI Walmart online sells shoes in bulk

Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:16 am

I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:23 am

Thanks Dave. I'll try more heat.

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:27 am

Thanks Steve S. I've tried the weld and grind on a couple of the cruddy welds. I only have 308 rods, but I'll order some 309 today.

exnailpounder · Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:14 am

ER70 S6 is supposed to be good for dirty metal too. I am staying in the gas-issue, laywire cold puddle camp. I have never seen sparks come from anything other than trying to weld over millscale and OP says the shoes are sand blasted. I have had similar issues welding railroad spikes but they are soaked with creosote so trouble is expected but brand new horseshoes? Modern horseshoes would have to be, at least, a half-way decent alloy.

MinnesotaDave · Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:00 pm

Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S

I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

exnailpounder · Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:56 pm

MinnesotaDave wrote:
Otto Nobedder wrote:I'm in the "metal quality" camp on this, especially after the comment about sparks around the weld.

Higher quality shoes are available, but to work what you have, the fix is simple. Weld, grind, weld again. (Only where needed, of course.) You can grind about half the depth where it's porous, and re-weld.

I also recommend 309 for filler in all passes, because it resists porosity in poorer quality base metals, and this application is non-critical.

Steve S
I agree with 309. I've used it on horseshoes too and it welds very nice

I've never had to grind welds on bulk ordered new horseshoes so something other than metal may be wrong?

Or maybe I've just been lucky

That's why I am staying in the camp I am in. Horseshoes can't be brittle so they can't be cast iron but I bet they are forged steel and it should weld just fine. Farriers still have to heat and custom fit pre-made shoes because you can't take your horse to Shoe Carnival and let him try them on so I am betting its a torch nut error.

Poland308 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:26 pm

They very well could be some kind of cast steel or pig iron. Forged in outer china from old tin army badges and medals. Shipped over in an open wood crate on the deck of a ship. Rusted for months in a ship yard then sand blasted and sold on the cheap. Looking at the closeup pick you can see it has a poor quality to the metal that looks more than surface deep. Perfect for art. But probably looked over or tossed out by the ferrier.

exnailpounder · Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:14 pm

Poland308 wrote:They very well could be some kind of cast steel or pig iron. Forged in outer china from old tin army badges and medals. Shipped over in an open wood crate on the deck of a ship. Rusted for months in a ship yard then sand blasted and sold on the cheap. Looking at the closeup pick you can see it has a poor quality to the metal that looks more than surface deep. Perfect for art. But probably looked over or tossed out by the ferrier.

You're probably right. If it was me...I would just Silbr the things and be done with it. I think the nice gold color would make it look cool. I can't believe we spent 4 pages fighting over horseshoes...oh wait...yes I can

MinnesotaDave · Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:19 pm

I was starting to consider metal being the problem except for exnailpounder claiming "torch nut error."

Now that's my favorite reason because it makes me laugh and I no longer want to consider metal as the problem.

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:59 pm

Today I tried something and I believe it works. Didn't clean or sand the horseshoes. Raised the heat to 180 Amps. Raised the gas flow to 20 CFH (lowering it just caused a mess). Used 70R-6 filler rod. Concentrated on the arc angle and bingo. Pretty nice weld. The second side wasn't as pretty, but I think by doing the first side it must release some of the contaminants in these shoes. See photos. I want to thank everyone who contributed to my post. Those suggestions did help.

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:00 pm

That was the second side. This photo is the first side.

MinnesotaDave · Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:14 pm

donzi426 wrote:Today I tried something and I believe it works. Didn't clean or sand the horseshoes. Raised the heat to 180 Amps. Raised the gas flow to 20 CFH (lowering it just caused a mess). Used 70R-6 filler rod. Concentrated on the arc angle and bingo. Pretty nice weld. The second side wasn't as pretty, but I think by doing the first side it must release some of the contaminants in these shoes. See photos. I want to thank everyone who contributed to my post. Those suggestions did help.

You did not form a proper puddle on both pieces - if you look at the toes of your first pic you can see a distinct lack of fusion.

Maybe you should practice fillets on regular T joints and show them for some tips on tigging them?

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:01 pm

You're right Dave. I do need more practice on fillets. Back to the drawing board:-)

exnailpounder · Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:05 pm

[quote="donzi426"]You're right Dave. I do need more practice on fillets. Back to the drawing board:-)[/quote Or use mig. Mig works on anything. Once you paint your project, a couple of iffy welds won't matter to anyone other than another welder looking to start some shit

Poland308 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:08 pm

I love it you can disagree totally about something on one thread and yet pat someone on the back two posts later. Lots of times I will argue a point until I totally understand I'm wrong and then turn 180 deg and run just as hard the other way.

donzi426 · Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:05 pm

I know I can MIG these shoes, but I'm determined to conquer this project with TIG. Just need to get the right combination. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all your help.

Vinny

Farmwelding · Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:12 pm

exnailpounder wrote:
donzi426 wrote:You're right Dave. I do need more practice on fillets. Back to the drawing board:-)[/quote Or use mig. Mig works on anything. Once you paint your project, a couple of iffy welds won't matter to anyone other than another welder looking to start some shit

A grinder and paint will make you the weldor you ain't

But it is always better to weld it good and strong and not need the grinder except for aesthetics

donzi426 · Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Just wanted to post an update: I found out why I was having trouble tig welding horseshoes. Today I decided to do some more horseshoes, determined to get it right. I do most of my welding in my one car garage so my welder and welding table are side by side. When I closed my garage door I felt a breeze as if the door was open. Low and behold I felt a breeze flowing over my table. It was the side vents of my welder that was shooting air past the area where I weld. I placed a barrier between the welder and table and low and behold I was welding horses without a problem. My bad!!!
Anyway, I want to thank everyone who tried to help with my problem.

LtBadd · Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:52 pm

donzi426 wrote:Just wanted to post an update: I found out why I was having trouble tig welding horseshoes. Today I decided to do some more horseshoes, determined to get it right. I do most of my welding in my one car garage so my welder and welding table are side by side. When I closed my garage door I felt a breeze as if the door was open. Low and behold I felt a breeze flowing over my table. It was the side vents of my welder that was shooting air past the area where I weld. I placed a barrier between the welder and table and low and behold I was welding horses without a problem. My bad!!!
Anyway, I want to thank everyone who tried to help with my problem.

Good to know, now if you have other issues I guess you'll already have a good start with trouble shooting tips.

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:22 pm

It's amazing how the truly simple things are the ones that bite us, and no one thinks of it when diagnosing a problem.

I'm glad you've solved it, and I'm glad you shared your solution, just to remind us all that sometimes we overthink the problem.

Steve S

MinnesotaDave · Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:23 pm

donzi426 wrote:Just wanted to post an update: I found out why I was having trouble tig welding horseshoes. Today I decided to do some more horseshoes, determined to get it right. I do most of my welding in my one car garage so my welder and welding table are side by side. When I closed my garage door I felt a breeze as if the door was open. Low and behold I felt a breeze flowing over my table. It was the side vents of my welder that was shooting air past the area where I weld. I placed a barrier between the welder and table and low and behold I was welding horses without a problem. My bad!!!
Anyway, I want to thank everyone who tried to help with my problem.

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