[dunkster]

New guy looking for thoughts/suggestions on what's going on here. So I've done the stacking drill to the point of finally being somewhat satisfied with bead appearance and puddle definition. Not as perfect and consistent as I'd like, but I know this will only come with everyday seat time, which unfortunately will not happen right now.

First 2 pics are just practice, all .090" 5052 sheet. Miller 350 LX Synchro at 90-95 amps, 3/32" 2% LAN tapered with maybe .03 to .04 balled end, 1/16" 5356 filler, balance right around 10 (68% EN), and straight Argon set at 15 to 20 CFH. Prep on the sheet was SS brush on 1 pc only, other left alone for comparative purposes (no real difference was noticed).

pic 1

DSCN0718.JPG (70.55 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

pic 2

DSCN0715.JPG (80.79 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

Finally get my confidence up to lay the $$ beads and I get this gritty look that almost looks like it was too hot (pic 3). This joint is 7/8" OD 6061 x .062 wall tube, fitting there is basically a 6061 machined channel piece, 1.5 OAL x .75 wide x .25 legs, with legs being .100 thick. Used either 100 or 110 amps on this joint, all other settings/rod being same as above. Went so far as to carve 1 or 2 of these welds out to re-do them, only to get the same results.

pic 3

DSCN0719.JPG (36.08 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

More of my misery (same 7/8" 6061 tube):

pic 4

DSCN0721.JPG (38.57 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

pic 5

DSCN0720.JPG (28.41 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

Penetration wise I'd trust my life on it, it's just the appearance makes me want to throw it in the scrap pile and put my machine out to the curb with Thursday's trash. Open to any suggestions or criticisms to help me out with asthetics. Thanks guys!

edit: need to clarify that I'm not knocking Miller at all, just my way of expressing my frustration with the operator

[TRACKRANGER]

Dunkster,

Frankly I think you are being a little tough on yourself. These results are not as bad as you suggest.

I would try reducing the current by about 5-10 Amps, maybe a touch more, and see what the difference is.

And welcome to the forum !

Trev

[Braehill]

If the piece s not going to be anodized I would try 4043 at the same settings and see how that does.

Len

[motox]

i don't know if this has any bearing on it but in your
practice welds there is a nice line of cleaning that
is not noticeable on the tubing. did you brush the
tubing welds? just curious....
craig

[zank]

You are probably more comfortable moving fast on the practice pieces. It's more of a challenge to move fast on the pieces that require a constant change in torch angle. You'll get there. Your straight beads look killer. Now you just need to translate that speed and heat to more complex shapes. The only tweak I would make would be to fill those craters. You are on the right path!

[big gear head]

I'd be pretty happy with those welds. Did you say that you are a beginner? I can't wait to see what your welds look like after you have been doing this for a while.

[dunkster]

Dunkster, Frankly I think you are being a little tough on yourself. These results are not as bad as you suggest. I would try reducing the current by about 5-10 Amps, maybe a touch more, and see what the difference is.
And welcome to the forum !

Trev

Probably so...believe I inherited an OCD gene from one side and a perfectionist trait from the other. Like anything else, it has its good and bad sides.

If the piece s not going to be anodized I would try 4043 at the same settings and see how that does.

Len

Will be trying this out as soon as I can pick some up. I've always leaned towards 5356 for the ductility factor, as these things are prone to crash damage.

i don't know if this has any bearing on it but in your
practice welds there is a nice line of cleaning that
is not noticeable on the tubing. did you brush the
tubing welds? just curious....
craig

Good catch. Yes those were cleaned up a bit, while the others were not. I long for the day when my stuff looks good enough to not require brushing or scothbrite.

You are probably more comfortable moving fast on the practice pieces. It's more of a challenge to move fast on the pieces that require a constant change in torch angle. You'll get there. Your straight beads look killer. Now you just need to translate that speed and heat to more complex shapes. The only tweak I would make would be to fill those craters. You are on the right path!

You are absolutely right, my comfort factor trying to wrap small tube joints is pretty much non-existent...and lack of real estate for propping the torch hand doesn't help either. And I'm sure my grip on the torch is much too tight and rigid, that added with the narrow field of view associated with tig (at least for me) I'm sure is slowing my travel speed down. This doesn't explain the gritty finish in pic 3 though, since I distinctly remember traveling as fast if not faster than the practice runs. Goal was to keep the heat soak down, retaining as much temper as I could being that those pieces are tapped. Now a question for you, being the tube joint master, is there any way of compensating for slower speeds? As others have stated, I'm ready to try less heat and even larger filler. My thought is maybe larger filler might have more of a cooling effect, IDK. Awesome work by the way Zank! Your look is very much like what I'm after.

I'd be pretty happy with those welds. Did you say that you are a beginner? I can't wait to see what your welds look like after you have been doing this for a while.

Thanks Gear Head, but yeah, probably beginner by most standards. Though I've owned my rig since '02, I can count on 2 hands how many 300# bottles of argon I've run thru it. I'd like to think the prior 12 yrs of migging pipe has helped out some.


Thanks for all the replys guys. Will be posting up of any progress made, soon as I have time for more experimenting.

[dirtmidget33]

You got some pretty good advice from everyone think Zank narrowed down your true issue. Only suggestion I have is if you plan on trying 4043 instead think about trying 4943 is a big improvement on properties that was lacking in 4043.

Another thing don't worry on this board about welds looking great by brushing them. It is ok to brush them but If they got some black smut on them or something else they will not criticize you, they might offer suggestions to help you prevent stuff. This board is really good about helping versus putting someone down.

[Braehill]

I was going to suggest 4943 but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'm having trouble sourcing it. Anybody have an online source for it?

Len


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[dunkster]

^ +1...Looks like it's readily available for mig, tig filler not so much. Have seen it referenced though so it is out there.

@dirtmidget...no problem posting up "as welded" condition, just that these were cleaned up well before joining on here. Would much rather have shown them that way to aid in the troubleshooting.

[dirtmidget33]

Most LWS should be able to order it for you in 10lbs increments. They prolly won't know what it is but can get it. Prolly gonna be a long time if ever before it gets to be common place in industrial use. Engineers and welding procedures (wps) will take a long time to convert to it due to bureaucracy and money.

Maybe I should start selling it online.

[LtBadd]

I was going to suggest 4943 but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'm having trouble sourcing it. Anybody have an online source for it?

Len
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I purchased some from my LWS...Equipment Sales and Service, you could call them.
http://www.essi-magnegas.com/

[SmartDave]

I have airgas local to me and had to special order the 4943 in 10lb packs. So I ordered 10lbs of 1/16 and 3/32. If you ask airgas, they can special order it for you


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[dunkster]

^^ Good to know this...have one about 20 min away from me.

Dare we ask what going rate/lb is?

[zank]

I paid $6.39/# for 3/32" the last time I ordered 10#.

[motox]

zank
did you order online?
craig

[zank]

Nah, through Maine-Oxy, where I get my gas. I haven't found any online supplier carrying 4943. Most any LWS can order from hobart and get the material. It's whether or not they feel like actually doing it for you is the question.

[motox]

zank
thanks
craig

[motox]

ok
just stopped at my local welding supplier in lakewood NJ,
Atlas Welding. he put 10lbs of 4943 hobart on their
order from hobart after i finally convinced him to look it up since
he had never heard of it before.. we will see what happens.
the saga continues...
craig

[xryan]

I think your a bit rough on yourself. For years we've been able to cover 90%? of aluminum TIG work with 4043 or 5356 with a giant transformer machine on AC with continuous high frequency some birthday balloon gas and some good ole radioactive tungsten. Personally I doubt the fancy pulse, wave shapes, adjustable frequency, etc or "new" filler will be a majic bullet. Prep, CLEAN, practice, practice, practice.

Not bashing all the fancy, I use mostly now my Dynasty 350 and sporadically oddball filler material. I can do more than I ever and would never go back. But sticking aluminum together is in my opinion 95% practice.

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[motox]

xryan
i agree that prep and experience are king
and I've used a transformer machine till very
recently but change and new products are
a good thing. i don't want to go down to the
stream and wash my clothes against the rocks
when we have a washing machine.
craig

[Bill Beauregard]

7A749 has a local source I got mine from. I use lots of 3/32, some 1/8, and a little 1/16. My next order will be 30 lbs of 3/32, 20 lbs of 1/8, and ten of 1/16. Mine is Maxal. I'm not certain whether other manufacturers make it. I can think of no situation where I would use 4043 again. Airgas can get it, they play dumb, never heard of it, you don't need it. If you needed it, we'd have it.

[motox]

LWS came through but a bit pricey.
he blames shipping on price.
he brought in one extra 10lb box.
craig

[Bill Beauregard]

It is expensive. If I'm going to have one drink, good stuff is a luxury I'm willing to pay for, One stick might be all that goes into a weld, therefore it doesn't add a lot of cost. I feel I need fewer BTUs to wet 4943. I can move faster, saving time, electricity, gas, and reducing heat affected zone. These benefits are not huge, but do make a better filler worthwhile.

[motox]

Bill
i agree better is almost alway cheaper in the long run.
the shipping bumped the price up more than the rod.
i just missed their order of 3000 plus lbs to hobart
by a few days where if i made it, it would have been almost 15% less.
craig