[Captainbeaky]

Hi there,

I'm based in the UK, fairly new to TIG welding, and currently have a neat little scratch start Clarke 131 TIG inverter set that I got for £80 ( ~$120 ) off eBay. Great value, as it included everything - the arc torch, TIG torch and gas regulator, and is like new - literally used once.

Clarke is the brand name of a company called Machinemart in the UK - and produce good products at a reasonable price, aimed at the hobbyist, and light industrial used.

It's a very neat setup, really small and light - the same size and weight as a box of shoes!
It's only 130a, (85a continuous) but this is ample for me at the moment.
I've been getting some seat time in on this set, and I'm completely hooked, and realise that I will want to upgrade to a hot start machine with AC capability at some point.

I'm on a budget, so I'm probably looking at second hand machines ( Miller dynasty 280 is way above my price range!)
What should I avoid?
Obviously anything Chinese!
What are the brands that are worth getting?
What are the brands to avoid?

Inverter is a must, due to a shortage of workshop space - I already have an ancient but brilliant 160a MIG, and a cranky old 25a plasma cutter, so another big machine is not on the cards...

Thanks in advance,

Mike.

[AndersK]

Mike,
If you want to avoid chinese machines here's some good welders I have used both on steel and aluminium

Esab, Swedish (American owners now) but made in different countries now.have many different but if you can find a Handytig AC/DC thats a neat machine and they usually go for a decent price..

Kemppi, still made in Finland. Did a little welding on ali with a mastertig if I remember correctly. They make very good machines as well.

Selco Genesis, Italian, probably the best I have used on ali. So smooth and easy

Others I hear people speak highly about but no own experience:

EVM, German made, considered to be the Rolls-Royce among welders in Europe

Fronius, from Austria ?, high end machine spoken highly about

Rehm, German but fairly new to me.

None is a low budget machine though unless you find a used one. All of them should be available in the UK
If you go for a used machine make sure you have local service available, they cost a lot to have sent for repairs...

[weldin mike 27]

I can vouch for kemppi, I have heard Rehm is good, ceboroa, migatronic, fronius. These will set you straight

[gnabgib]

[quote="
Kemppi, still made in Finland. Did a little welding on ali with a mastertig if I remember correctly. They make very good machines as well.
EVM, German made, considered to be the Rolls-Royce among welders in Europe
Fronius, from Austria ?, high end machine spoken highly about.

[/quote]

I have a Kemppi Mastertig and can vouch for its ability. Probably the cheapest of the high end machines but still $4500+ here in Oz with a genuine 230amps from a 240v machine. They supposedly make their own components.

EWM are sold by BOC here, high end but they do offer a 3 year warranty.

Fronius, big $$$$.

[weldin mike 27]

That is True. Maybe look at sip.

[Captainbeaky]

Hi guys, that's great stuff.

Thanks for that - just knowing the right trade named is a benefit.

Yeah, I hear a lot of good things about the Kemppi 2300, but it's one hell of a lot of money!
What are these welder a made of - gold?
I've looked at the insides of a few, and there isn't more than a few hundred bucks worth of parts inside
( I used to work in consumer electronics, so know exactly how much this componentry costs!)

Yes, there is R&D cost, but damn, they mark up these machines heavily...

Yes, I'm looking at second hand - I'm happy fixing or modifying machines to use different torches etc,.
I might even consider a broken machine, as long as I can get my hands on the circuit diagrams!
I was basically born with a soldering iron in my hand - if you've ever seen the Delbert cartoon called "The Knack" - yup, that's me! You should see the work I did to my £25 25amp 40kg plasma cutter to get it working!

A lot of the machines I see the experienced guys working with are more powerful than I am ever likely to need - I will be working on car bodies and chassis mainly - max 5 or 6 mm ( about 1/4 inch), most often at about 1mm to 1.5mm car bodywork. My MIG is a 130 amp unit, and it's more than I ever need for my work. I've only ever needed to max it once on some non structural brackets onto rolled I-Beams.

With this in mind, I'm looking at the SIP or Jasic machines at the moment - they both do a 160 amp machine that looks good for me, and is reasonably priced at £800 or so. This is more reasonable.

I'll keep looking though - and in the meantime, if someone in the UK knows of a good deal ( but must be single phase 230v though!)

Thanks guys ( and gals)

Mike.

[kiwi2wheels]

I'd suggest getting a machine with knobs for all adjustment controls, not " video game " screens. Too many new machines require you to go into a menu for basic adjustments ( Fronius, Rhem are two ) that will drive you crazy.

If you have the power supply, there are many excellent Miller and Lincoln transformer machines that are so much easier to use than most inverters.

[Arno]

As you're in the UK you may want to look into R-tech machines: http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/

Not expensive and you have (semi-)local contact for sales/support/warranty/etc... Eg. basic 160 amp AC/DC TIG machine is <£1000 and a little over for a 200A machine. I don't have personal experience with these but have seen quite a few guys in the UK use these.

Bye, Arno.

[Captainbeaky]

I agree - welding sets seem to be doing the same thing that a lot of top end oscilloscopes did in the late 90's - they went menu-driven - and were quite infuriating.

I prefer something with lots of knobs to twiddle.
Or as a ( non politically correct) mate said - "more knobs to twiddle than Snow White!".

I've been looking at the R-Tech stuff - they are right on my doorstep too.
I did drop in to R-Tech yesterday, for some tungstens ,but lost my wallet!
Fortunately, I found it on the floor next to where I parked my car in the garage!

At the moment, it's between these two

R-Tech TIG161p AC/DC
Jasic 200p analog

The price is almost identical between the two at the moment ( I have yet to turn up at the shop and try to do a deal).

I'm tempted toward the Jasic - it has a higher current capability ( 185 vs 160), and has a longer warranty ( 5 years vs 2 years).
In fact,the Jasic has a 100% duty current of 154 amps, which I like the sound of... The 200amp r-tech is another £250 more, pushing the cost over the mental £1k barrier...

The R-Tech comes with a pedal though - I wonder what deal they will cut me on a Jasic pedal?

Interestingly, the 160,200 and 250 amp r-tech machines are all exactly the same physical size - inverters - don't you love them!

Any feedback on the Jasic machines? There seem to be a lot of welding supplies places selling them over here They seem very reasonably priced, and well regarded...

In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes peeled for second hand.

[AndersK]

With the amp range you are looking at I assume you are aiming at thin aluminium sheet metal welding?

If you can, test the machine at 1-1,5 mm aluminum before buying. That is usually where you can find a difference between them.

[Captainbeaky]

Yes,.

90% of the work I do is on thin car steel body.
But I'd like to be able to weld aluminium.

I'm very impressed with the little 130amp DC TIG, and I'm looking for AC capability.

Both r-tech and Cheltenham welding supplies will let me try the machines out - that's what I'll do.

[kiwi2wheels]

Your requirements sound like the old Miller Dialarc 250.

Their only drawback is people who have them, want to hang on to them !

If you could find one that has a problem cheap...................

[Captainbeaky]

I'm hooked by the small size of the new inverter machines ...

[AndersK]

If youre doing sheet metal get a foot pedal when you buy the machine. Best addition I've made.

The jasic machines, as displayed on your lws's webpage, aren't as small as you might think. They are sold here under a different brand and they are quite wide.

[Captainbeaky]

I've just got back from the local welding suppliers - I needed more 3/32 tungsten.
They will do a nice deal on the Jasic - £820 - that's cheaper than anyone I could find online.
5 year warranty too.
They said they would do a deal on a foot pedal too.

I know what you mean - the Jasic is not a small machine - what I was really thinking was the comparison with an older non inverter TIG. I saw an old Miller Dialarc for sale - nice machine, but it was huge!

The Jasic will fit onto one of the welding trolleys that are available, and my plasma cutter will fit underneath - sorting out the storage problem...

Now, all I have to do is convince the other half.....

[Captainbeaky]

Anyone heared of Stalwerk?
They have some very competitively priced machines...

[noddybrian]

Only welded with one briefly - quite a while back - from memory welds OK - nothing special - unless they updated them they were older Chinese MOSFET based with the typical " wooly " arc & not great on AC - cheap though - used to be dozens of them on Ebay - downside your buying from Germany so warranty would be an issue - they do others but the most often seen is a multi process with plasma cutter- I'd avoid these as this seems the most cause of machine failure - couple of members here have more recent ones so I'd hope they'll comment - maybe they improved them - if your after known track record on quality / warranty I'd probably go with Thermal Arc / Tweco or Rtech on a budget .

[Captainbeaky]

I had a good chat with one of the aerospace welders in work ( the guy that welds the blades onto jet engine turbines! - I work at Rolls-Royce)

He reccomended the Rtech over the Jasic - he favoured the variable AC frequency IGBT Rtech over the fixed AC frequency MOSFET Jasic, and a better service backup, with Rtech just 15 mins from my house.

So I spun over to Rtech after work, and they did me a very nice deal - the 161 package with pedal, cables etc and regulator for £840 all in and threw in a few gas lenses as well - the bottom lime is a much better deal. Than the Jasic...

Now, all I have to do is Make a welding trolley for it...

Sweet.

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated.

Mike.

[noddybrian]

I think you made the right choice even though I've not used that model Rtech - they generally seem better made & better guys to deal with - unless things have changed the Jassic is a freelance Chinese product which I have little faith in - I guess they have their place & some people may get on with them - strangely the Rtech bears a close visual layout with Everlast which don't seem to be sold here - not sure if they are related - best of luck with the new machine - please do a short review once you have some seat time as there is little real world feedback on them aside from the northern dude on You Tube & I think there is a tie up between him & Rtech so his views are probably biased.

[Captainbeaky]

Yup - I plan to do just that.

I've just spent a little time with the machine tonight, and I'm very pleased with it.
Bearing in mind that I've never used a hf start or pedal before... And the steel I used as a test piece is a bit rusty...
And I've only got 1hr seat time on a tiny scratch start set....

I put the gas lens on from the start, but stayed with the 2.4 mm tungsten.

it didn't take long for me to start laying pretty repeatable beads on 2mm mild steel.
Not so good on 1mm steel - my mild steel filler rods are too thick to be neat -tungsten probably a bit big too.

I tried a stainless rod ( thinner rod) and it was easier to be neat.
Didn't blow a hole at all...
Very controllable.
Inital arc strike is clean. Arc settles down nicely.
The Rtech machine is a lot more stable than my little Clarke - the arc is nice and steady - much easier to work with on thinner metal.

I did try it on AC on a bit of ally, but I have no filler rods, so all I did was practice getting the puddle to form, and moving on - proved successful - didn't blow a hole- Pleasantly suprised at that!
I'm happy I got the Rtech now - it's a nice stable platform to learn on...

I go to bed a happy bunny.
Also dodged a bullet - will tell more when it's safe to do so...

[AndersK]

Have heard only good about Rtech, hope you'll be happy with it.

Try some mig wire on the 1 mm sheet. You'll be able to lay some very small beads when you get used to the pedal.
If you have a pot on it for max amp setting, use it. Soo much easier to control if you just set it slightly above what you need.

[Captainbeaky]

Damn - of course - I can use mig wire - I had not thought of that.
Thanks for that - I'll give it a go - in fact I have a slightly rusty roll of mig wire that will be fine for practice beads...

I'll post up some pics when I get a chance.
I'm in the middle of converting my van to a camper at the moment - and im in the final push to get the interior unit finished.
I'm getting a friend cabinet maker to finish it, and as I have expected, he's come up with some really great ideas - far better than mine, but I need to do a lot of running around to make it happen....