Do I really need a pluse rate over 20pps

dgarnier · Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:51 pm

New to tig welding and still not sure which machine to go with. I have it down to 2 machines, and 1 has a pluse rate up to 250, while the other only goes up to 20. Most of the work I plan to do will be .125 aluminum boat work

sschefer · Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:52 pm

If you're going to use pulse, a higher pulse rate can come in handy. I use it on edge welds when I'm trying to be neat and to keep the frost line to a minimum. 20pps only does one thing for me.. It gives me a headache. 150pps keeps the puddle width where I want it without a lot of foot pedal work. But that's just me and there's no two of us alike when it comes to TIG'n.

WILD BILL · Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:44 pm

While I'd like to have that feature for me I really couldn't justify it when I decided which one to get. Most of what I do is on steel.

Steve's right about 20 pps being a pain. However, I have had no problem getting done everything I wanted to try.

Think about not only what you plan on doing now but let your mind wander on what you may want to do later.

gurew · Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:55 pm

i use 250pps on .065 stainless tubing for exhaust and i use 400pps on turbo manifolds, sch 40 pipe all stainless steel work....aluminum..leave the pulse at home

dgarnier · Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:55 am

ok then, and I thought pulse was good for aluminum to help keep the heat down

Sarge · Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:19 am

Pulse IS good for aluminum.

It does require some adapting to the technique. I do a little aluminum. See www.sunspringwater.com And we use pulse all the time.

gurew · Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:37 am

pulse on aluminum is a waste of time imo...learn to move fast and get that feet hand up to feeding an entire rod super fast, or like i do and hold 2 rods in 1 hand

jpence38 · Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:28 am

gurew wrote:pulse on aluminum is a waste of time imo...

Did he really just say that or am I dreaming????

gurew · Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:57 pm

lol i dont weld as a hobby folks... pulse really does take away from the needed heat and slows you down...i do some mass production work and pulse..would reallllly slow things down!! pulse on aluminum is for hobby use haha a novelty....man up, set your amps for the material and full pedal it...perfect bead everytime

here is a picture...

now on stainless..pulse makes a WORLD of difference!!!

jpence38 · Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:50 am

By making the statements that you are making, you are showing how very little you actually know about pulse welding and welding in general . When welding on metal with the thicknesses that you are, anyone with a little time, and I stress little, can lay down a weld that looks like yours. Try welding some 18 gauge aluminum and "full pedal it" on an edge or outside corner and then tell me to leave the pulse at home. And by the way, those welds are far from perfect.

gurew · Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:58 pm

they arent meant to be perfect

i weld fast very fast

those aluminum pipes take about 3 min start to finish to weld...quality is perfect for the application and when you have to weld 100 of them..let me know how pulse works out for you

lets see your welds big guy!

jpence38 · Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:17 am

gurew wrote: pulse on aluminum is for hobby use haha a novelty....man up, set your amps for the material and full pedal it...perfect bead everytime here is a picture...

I MUST BE READING THIS QUOTE WRONG.

FIRST OF ALL, THE ORIGINAL POST MENTIONED PULSE BEING GOOD FOR ALUMINUM AND THE ANSWER FOR THAT IS YES. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT USE PULSE IN THE TYPE OF ALUMINUM WELDING YOU DO DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU TELL THAT PERSON THAT PULSE IS A WASTE OF TIME AND THAT IT IS FOR HOBBY USE. SECONDLY, WE CAN'T COMPARE WORK WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE THE WORK THAT I DO IS FAR DIFFERENT THAN YOURS. I DON'T SIT IN A LITTLE WELDING CUBICLE ALL DAY AND PERFORM THE SAME WELD OVER AND OVER AGAIN A HUNDRED TIMES A DAY.

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE PRODUCES A PRETTY WELD DOESN'T MEAN THEY PRODUCE A PROPER WELD. DOING THE WORK THAT I DO, I CAN'T HAVE A BAD DAY,THROW THE PIECE IN THE SCRAP BIN AND START OVER.

kermdawg · Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:38 pm

I aint gonna jump in the middle of this but I want to make a few comments-

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE PRODUCES A PRETTY WELD DOESN'T MEAN THEY PRODUCE A PROPER WELD.

One of the first things I was taught when I started welding. I wish wish wish really wish they would put this on every welding machine that is sold. A truer statement has never been spoken. I argue with my brother who decided to weld his 30,000 pound (loaded) car hauler trailer frame after it busted with his 110 v flux core welder instead of his lincoln 225 ac welder. Pretty weld, but will it last? You'll definately hear about it if it fails. (hope to god it doesnt, thats my brothers livelihood)

Secondly, thats some bad ass shit your workin on Jpence. Kinda shit I wanna get into. One question-How do you weld on a live water line? All the hot taps I've done are with saddles and shut offs right on top that with take a right angle drill and drill through the pipe with a hole saw. You sprinkler fitters would know it as a T drill. But my last 6 years plumbing, I've done a lot of soldering and brazing, and if theres just a itsty bitsy bit of water in the line, your fucted. So how can that pipe possibly get hot enough to weld with all that water flowin through it and coolin it?

jpence38 · Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:08 pm

kermdawg wrote:So how can that pipe possibly get hot enough to weld with all that water flowin through it and coolin it?

Kermdawg,
That was the single most discussed issue with welding these mains. These are 80 year old mains coming directly out of Meander Reservoir and did not have a shut off between the resevoir and the water plant. Hence, the reason for the saddles. It was quite tricky, because where these mains were located, under high voltage power lines, they had pitted quite badly due to the anodic reaction (e.g., metal dissolution) which occurs where the current from the power lines returns to the original path, through the soil. Metal loss results at the anodic points, where the current leaves the structure. The wall thickness was about 3/8, but the pitting made it significantly thinner in spots. With 100psi of pressure of cold water behind the pipe wall it made it tricky. A fine balance of having enough voltage for proper penetration and not too much to end up with the pipe coming apart from too deep of an arc dig was the key. Believe me, when I was laying underneath that thing welding it, and my butthole puckered so tight I couldn't pass gas

, all I could think about was if that was where I was gonna drown if that pipe come apart.

kermdawg · Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:17 am

So how did you guys cut in the saddles? Take some half round u bolts and bolt the saddle to the top, drill it and slap a shut off in? Cant see how that would work lol.Curious how you cut in a saddle that big on a live line.

jpence38 · Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:47 am

Check out their website. Click on the toolbar where it says Hydra-stop
http://www.hydrastop.com/
If you want some real pics of the machine let me know and I'll post 'em.
Wait till you see how big the hole saw is they use to cut with. Obviously it's almost 4 ft. in diameter, but it really doesn't register in your mind till you actually see it.

kermdawg · Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:10 am

Wow. Thats exactly how we do hot taps on the smaller pipes alright. Big ol saddle clamp (we call em power seals) and just drill that hole saw through the valve, pop it back out and shut the valve off. I didnt think you could get a hole saw to drill through schedule 40 steel though. Specially bein so old and pitted, I would be worried about a crack developing. And with -no- shut offs on that line, thats insane man.

Id like to see some pics if you have the time

edit-Checked out all them hydra stop videos. Thats some cool shit man. I really like that insta-valve deal.

jpence38 · Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:07 pm

Pics aren't very good. Good thing I weld better than I take pictures. Barely

Sarge · Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:57 pm

I guess that I "don't" weld production....hmmm.

Maybe I should take another look at the website I posted and see what it is that I "Really" do? Maybe the units that we build here are done by hobbyists? Maybe the Lincoln Rep. that gives us our training is full of whoey? Or maybe someone has a pretty big ego?

I try to learn something new everyday... am I learning yet?

jpence38 · Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:23 pm

Sarge,
I apologize if I offended you. My intention was to correct the bad information that pulse was a waste of time for aluminum welding.

Sarge · Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:08 am

Not at all Jim. My reference was to the earlier post by the gurew saying that he welds production, not just a hobbyist. I used to be the night shift weld shop super for Arctic Cat, who oddly enough use pulse too...lol

But I now do about 98% aluminum where I work as the fab mgr. But I too, am obviously full of hot air.

kermdawg · Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:44 am

Gettin a picture in my head of a hot air balloon race for some reason lol.

Nice pics man. Looks like some fun.

gunmaker · Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:44 pm

Can anyone here answer the title of this thread?
Pulse rate over 20?
Does this help with AC or DC?
Both?
I've done most of my TIG work with my Miller Dialarc HF and now I'm needing to replace it. Looking to buy a new machine and I have the same question as the OP.
Thanks
gunmaker

Sarge · Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:07 pm

AC for aluminum, obviously, yes. I would have to look back on my notes from earlier about DC but I want to say yes. I was using pulse MIG with the robots at Arctic Cat. I also use pulse MIG with the Linc MP350 also on aluminum. The Cobra push pull gun makes for a weld rivaling the TIG process, and guess what.....it makes for really FAST welding. (sorry...tongue in cheek shot there)

kermdawg · Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:53 pm

It depends on what your welding-Material AND joint design. Even if your not currently in need of it, you might in the future, and springing the extra money for it now can save you from having to buy another machine later.

Someone posted on here awhile back, when it comes to welding machines(and damn near anything else thats expensive in life)-Those who are cheapest end up payin more in the long run.

Buy the most machine you can decently afford, and you wont regret it.