[Charles]

Hey guys,

First and foremost, I apologize for such a basic question. I'll start off by saying that I've been researching TIG welders for the better part of a year, and have a good feel for the various options, machine settings, techniques, etc. thanks mostly to Jody.

Anyway, I'm a hobbyist that's into motorsports and I've been MIG welding now for about 3-4 years. I don't claim to be a professional by any means but I feel competent behind the gun and understand the basics of heat management, joint design, and what and what does not constitute a good weld. I started out with a little Hobart Handler 140 that I run with solid wire, and while it's a nice little machine I've been in situations where I've felt limited by it.

With a TIG, I plan on welding stainless, mild steel, chromoly, and aluminum, using this machine fill in the gaps of what my other welder can't do both in material selection and thickness capacity. I eventually plan on upgrading to a 230V MIG to be able to punch through thicker stuff but for now the 140 is nice for little stuff like the body work, light structural fab I use it for. The project that's first on deck for the TIG will be a full stainless exhaust for a swap project of mine, along with motor and transmission mounts in mild steel. I'll say that I do not want to invest in something that's prone to failure or something that I will "grow out of" as my welding improves.

All of these things said - has anyone had good experiences with the HTP Invertig 221? I've searched pretty extensively and have not been able to find anything bad about them. They seem to be backed by great customer service. I know lots are partial to something like the Miller Dynasty but honestly they're a bit more than what I'd like to pay when you've got the complete "ready to weld" package in your hands. Any input is greatly appreciated. If you're still reading I thank you for tolerating my rambling - but I felt some context was important.

Cheers,

Chuck

[Nils]

Hi Chuck,
I don't know anything at all about the HTP unit so I won't say a word about it. I would say this though: I bought a TIG rig at the first of the year, and like you, it was my first. I'd been playing with a Millermatic 250 for a while, but knew I needed to add a TIG unit to the stable. I ended up buying an Everlast 250EX. This has been a good unit for me and I have zero complaints about it. Also, I seriously considered the lesser power models thinking it would be more than enough power for me. But, I ended up with this unit because I was star-struck with all its features with the power being secondary.

I can say now, that when it comes to TIG'n aluminum, power is a powerful thing and I am so glad I got that 250 amps! You spend less time dick'n around with the torch, the base metal doesn't bake, and your beads are less likely to wash out so quick. In fact, I would love to have a Dynasty 350 (who wouldn't) just for the power.

Lastly, the water cooler is a must with power, otherwise you'll be taking a lot of beaks.

My 2 cents. Cheers!

[Bill Beauregard]

If you are interested in a good entry level machine, I have a 5 month old Miller 180 Diversion. For steel and stainless it is hard to beat. Aluminum requires a lot of heat! With 1/4" I haven't welded long before I start to push too far on the foot peddle as heat seems to be tapering off. I realize the machine doesn't turn off as it warms up, it rolls back the amperage.
I suggest you try to predict the upper end of your needs, and buy a machine that will do it. This should save you from buying two.

[MinnesotaDave]

Check my avatar . I'm a fan of big old ugly tools.

That big Airco is actually a Miller 330 abp. I have $250 in it including the foot control.

It laughs at 1/4" aluminum - I run that at 230 amps with no problems (other than too much heat in the torch )

230 amps is the mid range on it.

Bottom line, if you have the room and the power to feed one, don't overlook old dinosaur machines.

Happy hunting!

(Pic is 1/4" angle with 3/16" diamond plate from a job this weekend)

[Charles]

If you are interested in a good entry level machine, I have a 5 month old Miller 180 Diversion. For steel and stainless it is hard to beat. Aluminum requires a lot of heat! With 1/4" I haven't welded long before I start to push too far on the foot peddle as heat seems to be tapering off. I realize the machine doesn't turn off as it warms up, it rolls back the amperage.
I suggest you try to predict the upper end of your needs, and buy a machine that will do it. This should save you from buying two.

Thanks for the offer Bill, but I'd like something with a bit more power and a bit more adjustability.

Thanks for the other suggestions as well guys - it will definitely be an inverter machine because space is at a premium in my garage and I'd need to wire in a dedicated circuit to support a transformer machine.

The 250EX was another consideration, and while they seem to have gotten better over the years I'm still a little bit leery about a Chinese-made machine.

For the sake of discussion, here's a link to the HTP welder in case some of you guys haven't seen it. I like the fact that it comes with a nice torch / hose with it already. http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetails.a ... 70221-12.5

Bottom line is I'd like to buy one TIG welder that will suit all my needs now and in the future. I made the mistake of buying the smaller machine when I bought the MIG and I won't be doing that again.

[Wes917]

Just a heads up, I contacted htp about that machine as I'm wanting the water cooled version and it will be on sale for Black Friday.

[Nils]

I took a look at the HTP unit's specs. Lots of features. The AC amp control is one I don't have. If it works as good as it looks, this might be a real winner.

[MinnesotaDave]

I think the HTP is pretty cool, maybe even sexy - I sure wouldn't "kick her outta bed for eatin crackers."

[WerkSpace]

Aside from the extra $1000 for the HTP 221, I'm not fond of the 20% duty cycle.

The PowerPro 205 has a 60% duty cycle and comes with a 50 amp plasma cutter and stick holder.
It also has the foot pedal, tig torch, spare consumables, regulators, etc, etc.
My main reason for choosing the 205 over the 256 was because I didn't have to rewire the garage.
The standard 240v-30amp breaker works fine. The duty cycle is very reasonable.

Compare the statistics for yourself. It's your money, spend it any way that you want.
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 1-12.5.htm
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power ... 79-pd.html

BTW - Most electronic components are made in China or India. It's a global market place.

[Charles]

Aside from the extra $1000 for the HTP 221, I'm not fond of the 20% duty cycle.

The PowerPro 205 has a 60% duty cycle and comes with a 50 amp plasma cutter and stick holder.
It also has the foot pedal, tig torch, spare consumables, regulators, etc, etc.
My main reason for choosing the 205 over the 256 was because I didn't have to rewire the garage.
The standard 240v-30amp breaker works fine. The duty cycle is very reasonable.

Compare the statistics for yourself. It's your money, spend it any way that you want.
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 1-12.5.htm
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power ... 79-pd.html

BTW - Most electronic components are made in China or India. It's a global market place.

Point taken. There is something to be said for the assembly processes and proper Q/A though to minimize failure rates. Historically speaking the Everlast doesn't have that great of a track record, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

What are your overall impressions of the 205? If you had to do it all over, would you buy it again? Any reliability issues?

Being realistic here, I don't see myself welding at max current for extended periods of time. The types of projects I forsee myself doing just don't demand it. At the same time though, I can see why you guys would find that capability to be advantageous.

So right now I've got the HTP and the Everlast units in the running. Are there any other inverter machines that I should be considering?

[MinnesotaDave]

Put Miller, Thermal Arc and Lincoln on the list, keep HTP on it, ditch Everlast.

...and just so no one has to ask, YES, I'm biased against Everlast and Longevity.

[weldin mike 27]

Any particular reason? Remeber not everyone needs a 2+k welder just to do a bit in the shed of a weekend .

Mick.

[WerkSpace]

I watched a movie on Netflix last night called http://deathbychina.com/
It was a real eye opener and explains why so many people are out of jobs.
Try buying a product today that is not in some way made in China.

Put Miller, Thermal Arc and Lincoln on the list, keep HTP on it, ditch Everlast.

...and just so no one has to ask, YES, I'm biased against Everlast and Longevity.

[MinnesotaDave]

Any particular reason? Remeber not everyone needs a 2+k welder just to do a bit in the shed of a weekend .

Mick.

That's what used ones are for - my monster was only $250 and is everyday pro quality

And no, no specific reason against the machines, just the way they have done business and left customers hanging.

[MinnesotaDave]

I watched a movie on Netflix last night called http://deathbychina.com/
It was a real eye opener and explains why so many people are out of jobs.
Try buying a product today that is not in some way made in China.

Put Miller, Thermal Arc and Lincoln on the list, keep HTP on it, ditch Everlast.

...and just so no one has to ask, YES, I'm biased against Everlast and Longevity.

Note I did not say I was against point of origin for machines. Just biased against two particular companies.

And no, as a country we are not currently doing well against China. It does bug me!

[weldin mike 27]

Thats all good mate, each to their own. PS im from Australia, its almost a state of china...

[Nils]

I remember hearing all the same stuff about Japan back in the 70s. We lost that one, but also we learned a thing or two. Now China is here and they are serious players on the world market. They have no ethical conscience and will shamelessly steal any and all ideas, reproduce the products with CNC accuracy and distribute them with a very cheap labor force. Hello Harbor Freight!

Now, back to welders. Everlast: 30 day money back guarantee - 5 Year Warranty

The PowerTig 210 is a comparable, digitally controlled model listed at $1800 http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power ... 77-pd.html

BUT, for another $1000 you can go with the 320 Amp model and be the baddest boy on the block! Power is powerful! http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power ... 81-pd.html

Here's a recent promotional project I did with 1/2" alum, and it took 250 amps to do it with ease. Yea, I know the beads are not perfect, but for a first run at it, not too bad.

[450dualsport]

I have the HTP 221 with the water cooler and I really like it. I have bought other things from them as well and as everyone says, their customer service is top notch!

[Charles]

China will spiral back down to earth once its people wake up and start demanding a higher standard of living. Their place in the world is not sustainable much in the same way that ours isn't.

Interested in impressions on the HTP though...what all have you welded with it and have you found the duty cycle to be problematic?

[WerkSpace]

- No water cooler required on the Everlast PowerPro 205
- I power it from the standard range or dryer 240v 30A outlets.
- The price for my unit was $1500 CAD including shipping and taxes.
- Excellent duty cycle of 60% at 200 amps.
- It comes with accessories for TIG, Stick and 50A plasma cutting.
- It comes with a foot pedal, two flow meters and air regulator for the plasma cutter.
*one of the flow meters is hand held to calibrate the plasma torch"
- It comes with a spare consumables starter kit.

For me, this setup was definitely a great value for the dollar.
I haven't had any issues so far and I like the product.

[MinnesotaDave]

- No water cooler required on the Everlast PowerPro 205
- I power it from the standard range or dryer 240v 30A outlets.
- The price for my unit was $1500 CAD including shipping and taxes.
- Excellent duty cycle of 60% at 200 amps.
- It comes with accessories for TIG, Stick and 50A plasma cutting.
- It comes with a foot pedal, two flow meters and air regulator for the plasma cutter.
*one of the flow meters is hand held to calibrate the plasma torch"
- It comes with a spare consumables starter kit.

For me, this setup was definitely a great value for the dollar.
I haven't had any issues so far and I like the product.

For long runs at 200 amps AC you will want a water cooled torch after your torch starts burning your hand.

But if you don't normally do that you'll probably never need one.

Last two jobs my wp-26 air cooled torch melted off the gas line 8 times welding 3/16 and 1/4" aluminum.

I have the cooler pump and motor but have not made the tank yet, nor bought the torch. But I better get on it

[Mike7]

Hello Charles,

I started Tig welding with a Lincoln square wave 175, it was a nice little machine for steel but was very limited for aluminum. I upgraded to a Lincoln precision Tig 275 with liquid cooled torch. It was a nice machine with great arc stability and smooth starting. The duty cycle and water cooled torch allowed you to weld all day. The down side was it needed a 100 amp circuit and it didn't have all the features of the inverters for adjusting for aluminum. At one point I had a Lincoln 175 plus Mig, Square wave 175 and the Precision 275. I moved into building English wheels and wanted a plasma and a bigger Mig. I couldn't afford anything from big blue or Lincoln after dropping everything I had on the Precision Tig 275 and some CNC equipment so I looked for alternatives (used and other brands). I found HTP on the web and after talking to them for weeks and finding out that their stuff is made by a major Italian company, I took a chance and bought their 400 plasma cutter. The customer service was outstanding and it worked flawlessly. I ended up buying their 2400 Mig - absolutely love it. I got out of doing metal work a few years ago and went to business school - sold off my equipment to pay tuition. I kept the Mig 2400 though and regretted selling the plasma but someone begged me for it. I just replaced the plasma with HTP 600 and I just ordered a new 221 TIG. I've sold all my Lincoln equipment, they are a great company and their stuff is top class. I just like the pricing and customer service at HTP.

When I was looking at getting back into the shop work, kind of as a hobby, but I also do some commercial fabrication on a part-time basis, I looked at the Everlast units, especially the combo units. They looked like a great deal, but then looking over the features I couldn't decide which one to go with. They offer a lot in the lower price units but then you have to look at the analog versus digital models. When it came right down to it the HTP 221 is a full feature digital model so you need to compare it to the Everlast and other manufacturers digital models. Reading about the problems with the arc gap on the hi-freq start for the Everlast (yes you can adjust it to fix) made me decide to save up for the HTP. Plus with more than 10 years of experience with HTP I know I can call or email Steve at HTP and he will get back to me instantly (never had a problem with the equipment - just for ordering and discussions about features). It was a peace of mind thing to know that you are getting good quality stuff and good service.

Good luck with your tig purchase decision.

Best regards ,

Mike

[Bill Beauregard]

I'm not sure how long ago Jody Collier wrote about Buying a welder. He endorsed Miller, gave reasons. I agree, with the tempering opinion that most sought after Miller machines are expensive new, expensive used, and don't spend long on the market. One option I found is Some dealers will recondition used machines. I found a beauty for about half its cost new. I didn't buy it. now I regret it.

Another mistake I made was buying a 2000.00 dollar entry level TIG new. In no time I had outgrown it. It works great, but is limited in its use to thin aluminum. Hooked, like an addict, I had to upgrade. I did upgrade, but not far enough. Here we go again. For anyone with a less tolerant wife I urge you to get a great machine with as much versatility as you can, expensive yes, cheaper than owning 7 welders like me.

[Nils]

In January I bought my first TIG machine. It is a very capable unit with adjustments in ac freq, balance, slopes, pre/post flow. It is the Chinese Everlast 250EX and it works very well. But, my next machine will be a Miller Dynasty 350DX, Brand new it is 5 times the cost, but a used one should be about half that.

[Wes917]

China will spiral back down to earth once its people wake up and start demanding a higher standard of living. Their place in the world is not sustainable much in the same way that ours isn't.

Interested in impressions on the HTP though...what all have you welded with it and have you found the duty cycle to be problematic?

The duty cycle at lower amps is slightly better than a miller dynasty 200 dx, which is what is use at work all day long in a commercial application and have never had a problem.