[Joe]

Hi folks,
I have stick welded with a buzz box for many years, and then about 7 or 8 years ago got a Millermatic 251 MIG and it is great for steel. But now I want to do aluminum, and thin stuff at that. But I don't have a ton of money to spend. What else is new, right? I've been reading many, many reviews of several TIG welders, and am kind of coming down to a Miller Diversion 165 or an Everlast PowerPro205. I am very interested in the Everlast machine as I could really make use of the plasma cutting features as well as the TIG. Many people dis the Chinese machines for their limited warranty but Everlast is advertising 5 years now.
I'm sure the Miller machine would be a good one. But if the Everlast does everything they say for the same money....?? Anybody have anything bad to say about Everlast PowerPro205?
Thanks,
Joe

[ogorir]

there are a couple people on this forum who've had good luck with the everlasts, but the general internet wisdom says that the all-in-1 units are less reliable than the single purpose units. I don't use either, but I've been looking, as I'm going to be moving soon and will lose access to my pop's lincoln.

jody (the admin) has a number of vids using the powertig 250ex, which should have a similar feature set to the 200.

[Gary]

I have a Everlast 256 welder now for a few weeks, BUT it really has the smooth arc and control for doing aluminum , that is all I usually weld for marine parts. So far I have not tried the Plasma cutter or the stick weld part of the machine.But if they do as well as they do with aluminum then it will be great . The biggest difference between the 250EX and PP256 is the duty cycle . The 250EX is 60% at 250 amps and the 256PP has 35% at 250 amps, Even the 35% is better than the Miller and Lincoln duty cycle, But that is at full output of the welder so unless you do a lot of welding at 250 amps then the duty cycle wont be an issue..
But so far I really like my Everlast welder and way cheaper than a name brand unit.. Also they have a full 5 year replacement warranty on the units. I sell for them now but only after I got one and used it is when I signed up to sell for them. I paid full price for mine and am not pushing them (it might look like it but I am selling my Miller after I got this one).its the Diversion 165 on ebay right now.It is a great welder but only 165 amps so it does a great job under 3/16" material too and easy to set up just plug it in and hook up the gas and go.I am not kicking the Miller its just that that model is too small for what I do now.And the price is one reason for the Everlast for me as well. Just my opinion and if you want a deal on one PM me.I dont want to be flagged as a spammer or anything either but I learned all of my TIG from Jody's videos and practicing what he is doing.I have probably watch all of his TIG videos 20 times each, he is great at telling it like it is and just the basics without going overboard on metalergy and chalkboard teaching.I would buy a set of his videos if he made a dedicated set getting more involved in more settups in TIG .
And if you happen to live in florida close to Port St Lucie I would be happy to let you use one of mine and check it out to help you decide..
Gary

[Joe]

Gary,
Thanks for the input on the Everlast. I need some good counsel, as I am beginning to feel less confident the more I look at different units. Let me try to explain where I am in the process.
I was going to get the Miller diversion until I started watching some of Jody's videos and read the chinese welder threads and looked at Everlast. The thing that interested me was being able to get a tig welder with adjustments with plasma capability for not much more than the diversion. It's a real eye opener to see what individual plasma units cost. So I was looking at the PowerPro205 but it doesn't have preflow adjustment. Not sure how important that is. The PowerPro256 is slightly outside the bounds of what I hoped to pay. So I called Everlast and talked to one of the guys in sales. One problem that left me feeling less confident was that I felt like I was talking to a used car salesman. Sorry, if that offends anyone, I just hate what I call automobile math where the price is very fuzzy and numbers change in strange ways the more you talk and when you catch the guy in an inconsistency it changes again. The guy offered me a deal on a PowerTig200DX and a SuperCut50P plasma unit instead of a PowerPro205. I'm really unsure whether I should go with the multi machine or separates. I was trying to get a feel for the return rate on the machines. The sales guy said they have had very few complaints once they went to the IGBT designs instead of the MOSFETS. The SuperCut 50P machine says it uses MOSFETS so I don't know where that leaves me.
I started this whole exercise because I need to weld aluminum for some boat projects. I want to build an arch for my sailboat among other things.
But my main metal working is as an artist blacksmith which means that I make a lot of decorative ironwork for the home. I could really make use of a plasma cutter for sheet metal stuff that I do, cutting out leaves and such. The TIG outfig would allow me to make pretty welds on my steel items. So both would speed me up considerably.
So I'm really getting frustrated. One friend says that I must buy Miller because of its reputation. But looking at the various welders out there, the Hobart 165 looks exactly like the Miller Diversion 165 so who's kidding whom about who builds what?
Everlast looks good but I really don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about the sales guy I talked with.
All input is welcome. I'm going to keep researching and try to keep myself from jumping into anything I'll regret.
Joe

[Gary]

Not a problem Joe,
Dont rush in to it , that is kind of what I did when I bought the diversion 165 I wanted a TIG at an affordable price and got a decent deal from my local welding supply and went for the Miller.But it is a one use machine just ac and dc TIG. But on the other hand a combo unit all of your machines are in one unit so if it goes down you are out of luck until it gets back. One thing about everlast is the tech guys are there 7 days a week and if they cant guide you in the right direction to fix it they call and have a new one sent out .they dont make you wait until that unit is repaired before you get it back.The main warehouse is in california so shipping takes 3 to 10 days considering where you are.
They have that for a 5 year warranty.
Also the Hobart is made or owned by the same company as Miller and neither of them are totally made in the USA parts are made all over for just about every machine out there.
Just keep checking them out but just watch out for a harbor freight unit or one of the really cheap units that you might get stuck with.I am not sure if you have checked out the everlast forum but there is a lot of info in the forum on the service and good and bad about the machines.Mine is working great But like I said earlier I have only had it a few weeks. I posted some pictures of settings and the welds that this machine will do. Also if you havent checked out Jody's videos on all types of TIG that will help a lot too..
Gary

[Joe]

Thanks much for all the feedback, Gary. I am located in Knoxville, TN., so if anybody is as close as a 2 hr drive that you know of, let me know. I have spent (mis-spent?) the last 35 years as an electronics design engineer so I know only too well that very little electronics is actually produced in the states. I am now semi-retired but still need to make some money so I'm doing the artist/craftsman bit in metal. I actually started in blacksmithing in 1979 but it has been mostly hobby till now.
I'll try to talk to some of the tech guys at everlast next week and see if I can get any guidance on the multi versus individual units. I've looked at lots of Jody's videos. I'll be really glad when he gets time to do the plasma thing on the PowerPro256.
Yeah, I know to watch out for the Harbor Freight stuff. Right now I'm leaning toward everlast but just still a bit wary.
Do you have any comments on the PowerPro205 versus 256 other than amperage output or duty cycle? How important is preflow adjustment? Jody mentioned there was a blast of gas on most of these welders when first hitting the trigger.

[Gary]

You really kind of want the pre and post flow for both welding and the plasma on a multi unit. The pre flow will help perge the lines with argon so you dont get bad starts with no gas and post flow will help with the weld to keep sheilded while the weld cools and in plasma cools down the torch in plasma mode with longer cuts keeps the tips from wearing out quick..
The 205 and 256 the amps are as you know 50 amps but seems like the biggest diffence in the 2 are just a few adjustments that you might or might not need..The 256 has start and stop amp control where the 205 does not , and the 256 has a pulse on off switch that you will have to just turn the pulses up but you will still have pulse.. Me I prefer to get a slower pulse for me it gives me more control over the bead and width of the weld.
The 205 is a nice machine just trimmed down a little from the 256 and really I dont know who you spoke to on price but it is not that much between the 2 , like 150 bucks to go up to 250 amps ,,BUT you might not ever even use or need 250 in your art work..so the 205 power pro (Because you will be doing aluminum) might be perfect for you..Also the 205 you have to use the foot amp pedal for arc control.
And I was torn between getting 2 units or just the one, but I do need 250 amps and thought for the extra I would get the combo unit , even though I dont know how much I am even going to use it , I liked the good reveiws on both the 250EX and 256PP..
Dont hesitate to give me a call Joe . I am just getting caught up on the forums and in the garage you have my #
Gary
Oh also I will try to see if anyone is around tennesee to see about a demo for you..But your best bet would be to go on the forum and ask questions as well. I think there is another guy on there doing art work as well.I will check.

[Joe]

I'm a bit confused about needing to control the amperage on the 205 with the foot pedal.
Is that because of the lack of start/end amp setting on the 205? Both have up slope and down slope. On the everlast comparison chart it says that both the 205 and 256 have the 4t/2t switch. I probably should download both operators manuals and read them closely. I've made a short list of differences between the two machines.

• feature 205 256
  
  start/end amps no 0-100a
  up slope 0-5s 0-10s
  plasma 50a 60
  duty cycle 60%@200 35%@250
  pulse freq .5-25hz .2-500hz
  pulse amp ratio 5-200 5-95% (?)
  pre-flow no 0-10s

I'm not sure how important the wider pulse freq is on the 256. The biggest thing for me is the lack of preflow on the 205. Otherwise, it seems it would work for me.
Thanks again for your help. Your replies and Jody's website have been my best resources so far on this stuff.
Joe
ps. when I previewed my message I found my list hard to read even tho I tagged it as a list. Oh well. Hopefully you can make it out.

[Gary]

Joe if you have the foot pedal connected then you dont use the torch switch. The foot pedal is where you vary your amps. The start and stop amps gives you the ability to set that for the start minimum and end minumum of the the amps..So on your upslope the amps will start at that percentage and the same with the end amps to where the 205 will just ramp down to 0 or start at zero. That will take just a few seconds to get up to amps (as long as you have upslope and downslope turned down or on)
The plasma is 60% verses 50% so if you need to cut up to 1 1/8 material go with the 256 but the 205 if I remember will do 3/4 .
The duty cycle is a big difference BUT that is at max amps and slopes up as amps go down. So unless with the 256 you are welding 5/16 material at 250 amps all day the duty cycle is much better on smaller materials.
Pulse freq is only one setting for the 205 vs the 256 you have a hi on the option of up to 500hz , lets you get faster pulses percent on your weld, high pulse helps with welding around edges so you dont curl and edge.
Pulse amp ratio is the amout of TIME that the hi and low cycle of the pulsing is so for example if you set the pulse ratio at 25% at 100amps it will be 25% on the low side of your amps and 75% on the hi set amps.
Joe if you call me I might be able to explain better on the phone with a macine in front of me while you ask the question. I am not going to try and sell you anything.
Gary

[kevn]

Joe

I just ordered a pp256 yesterday. I was in the same boat as you. I wasn't 100% sure of the Everlast ac/dc tig plasma units. Even though I convinced 2 of my friends to buy the dc tig/plasma combo's back in the winter, I wasn't sure I wanted to spend more than double what they did for a ac/dc setup. I was leaning heavilly towards a used Miller Syncrowave unit.

I read alot of negative threads on various forums about Chinese welding machines and such but most of the negative stuff was hear say. I never once read a negative comment from an actual owner. Most of it was buy American, Miller is #1
Although I'm not American we here in Canada follow the same logic we consider Miller Lincoln domestic brands and cringe at Chinese knock offs.
The prices of the Miller/Lincoln units are way more than what Everlast is selling for. I know Miller makes the best welders but I wouldn't be able to get a new Dynasty if I had to get a Miller, and as I far as I can tell that's where the Everlast units compare in size and weld ability.

Anyways It wasn't until I stumbled upon Jody's videos on the pp256 did I realize My worries may be unwarranted. As far as Weld quality and adjust ability its as good or better than a Dynasty 200 And more powerful . The only unproven part would be the durability.

I think for $1500 minimum difference between a dynasty 200dx and a pp256 Ill take the chance that it will last over 5 years. How long does it have to last out of warranty? Its a $2000 welder.


And just to let you know Both of my friends with the dc tig/plasma units absolutely love their units. They haven used the tig function as of yet but have used the stick and plasma alot. Ive even used the plasma on more than one occasion and I must say it makes a nice cut. We have a Lincoln 120v plasma at work that can't even make a nice cut through 3/16ths. and it was over a grand.

[Gary]

Hey Kevin ,
I just got my pp256 a few weeks ago and so far all I have done is TIG and I bet when you get your machine up and running you will not believe have nice it welds. I just finished playing around with mine just to get more experience using the 2T and 4T modes as well as fooling around with the AC Freq and slopes. I just have not set up to plasma cut or stick, but I have not even touched a stick since tech school in 77 so I dont know if I will even fire that part up.
Also I cant wait until Jody gets another video up and running with the 256 as well , I really like his videos they are right to the point without trying to go over your head just laying down a bead.
And also remember that everlast has a 30 day return if you dont like it, but so far I have not met anyone who does not like it..
Post back when you get your welder , I know you will like it.
Gary

[Joe]

Thanks very much guys. This is all really helpful.
Gary, I think I understand the settings things now. I will download the manual for the 256 before I decide finally but I think I'm going to try to get the 256 if I can afford it.
Kevn, thanks very much for your input. Hearing that you've got friends with units that are a few months old and still running is reassuring news.

[Gary]

No problem Joe,
when you get one please post here to see or call me or tech for info. It does take a few hours of welding to get used to one if you have never TIGed with pulse settings and seperate freq setting , But what I did to get used to the settings was to set up near my welder so all I had to do was lift my hood and reach over to make a change and tried to adjust everything I could just to see what it would do . So after a little while when it all sinks in you have a good idea of what knob does what. Then you get a few nice welds down then that is satisfying to know that you bought a good machine for a good price.
Have fun