Got some torch time today. Had 2 - 3" wide x 1/8 thick scraps of aluminum laying around.
Primeweld 225
100% argon - 15 lph
# 6 regular cup
3/32 - 2% lantholated
140 amps - full pedal
A/C
3/32 4043 filler
65% ish cleaning
Had issues. My tungsten seemed to round off rather quickly. Also, my filler was melting outside of and away from the puddle making a ball on the end that....jumped onto my tungsten as soon as I tried putting it in the puddle.
Yeah, I think I snapped out of the weld at the end and that made the fish eye, which aided in the crack. The welds look dull and I think I had too much heat. Maybe back down to 130? Am I on the right track?
***Edit*** Actually, the crack is at the START of the weld
Thanks for the advice.
Reducing your amps is not the answer. Understanding the “hot short crack” is. Starts and stops of ally welds on their length are very prone to cracking if you don’t add enough filler, don’t taper your amperage down at the end, and don’t use enough filler wire.
If you’re running 15lph with a #6 cup, that’s way too high. Probably nearer 5lph, and be sure to use a postflow of at least 5 seconds on the end of the weld.
Filler wire balling before being introduced is symptomatic of too long an arc, and the wrong angle of adding filler/torch angle. Closer to 90* for the torch, nearer to 45*-60* for the filler. Get it stuck in there, and draw it out, stuff it in, pull it out. Don’t dawdle.
Highly likely there’s a hole at the start of the cracks. When you end a weld you might be leaving a hole. If you don’t grind it out or burn through it it becomes a stress riser and a creator of cracks.
Had issues. My tungsten seemed to round off rather quickly.
.
to much cleaning, i suspect its closer to 60%. try around 70%. if its fairly clean material 80%.
the less cleaning action the less heat the tungsten has to deal with and less rounding off it does.
melting filler, arc to long, to flat torch angle. plus 4043 is a bit lower temp. i usually find 5356 easier.
Also 'scraps of aluminum' is often 'mystery metal' unless there's still some identification printed on it.
7000 series alu for instance is classed as not-weldable with arc welding as it tends to crack immediately when the weld cools (Some types can get away with friction-stir welding and such though), so if you have that there's no way to avoid the cracks.
Making sure you get a known 'scrap' like 6061 or similar can get at least one variable from the equation.
Advice above is good though. Make sure the metal is clean and brushed with a stainless steel brush), start with the least amount of cleaning action (clean and brushed alu only needs a little).
Also keep it simple and start off with a plain 60Hz A/C arc and turn off all the bells and whistles on the machine. Time to play with those is when you are getting more comfortable running plain beads and get a feel for the required heat input (and tapering off) with your foot pedal as well as training your muscle memory for keeping a close arc and small toch angle.
From the pic it looks to me like too much heat in the weld. When you start to lose the ripples caused by dipping the rod, you are definitely too hot. Turning down the amps may or may not be the answer. 140 amps on 1/8th inch material is a lot but not if you are proficient and can move fast enough. Heat input is complex, its not just the amps but how long you dwell on the part. Jody has an excellent video demonstrating that 120 amps can actually put less heat into a part than 80 amps when TIG welding.
I’m no pro here but I’d probably use 3/32 filler for your project unless I couldn’t feed it fast enough or I was dealing with a large gap or poor fit up. There are questions that you may want to learn to ask yourself about different things to make sure you got everything set up properly. As far as filler wire goes the question you may consider is, is the filler sticking in the puddle if it is then you may have filler that’s to large. There are lots of checks like this and several factors that effect every part of a weld. Jody has lots of videos that collectively cover most all of the things that you may need to know. It’s a lot of time watching YouTube but there’s decades of learning there and it’s all for nothing if you’re not using the knowledge of witch you obviously are. Keep on welding and try different stuff even if it’s not what is recommended if it doesn’t work you’ll still have learned something.
eelman308 wrote:Hmm. OK. Yeah, in hindsight, probably had the torch leaned over too far. I'll correct that.
Gas flow...thought the rule of thumb was 2x the cup size. I'll back it down to 10.
Considering backing down voltage to 130. Used that setting previously and seemed to do OK. That may let me catch up and not have to travel so fast.
Scraps are 6061-T6511. Did use dedicated stainless brush and acetone.
I'll cut back Hz from 100 to 60 and cut back on cleaning
I have 1/8 filler at my shop. Both 4043 and 5356....swap it out?
Did I miss anything? I appreciate all the suggestions. Now I'm itching to get back and try it.
For 1/8" thick aluminum I'd set it for 125A and stick with 3/32" filler for now. Thicker filler can lead to other issues when you're trying to get things sorted out...sticking to the puddle, etc. In fact, 1/16" filler would be good to practice with as an alternative to 3/32 after you get some results you're happy with.
You asked about the filler rod balling up and I don't think anybody addressed that. There are a number of factors that can cause the filler to ball...amperage too high, excessive torch height, excessive torch angle or leaving the filler rod close to the puddle as you move along. So, lower the amperage, keep a tight arc (keeps the puddle and arc cone smaller) and don't leave the filler close to the arc/puddle (you want it in the gas shielding zone, but that's much bigger than the arc cone).
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eelman308 wrote:Hmm. OK. Yeah, in hindsight, probably had the torch leaned over too far. I'll correct that.
Gas flow...thought the rule of thumb was 2x the cup size. I'll back it down to 10.
Considering backing down voltage to 130. Used that setting previously and seemed to do OK. That may let me catch up and not have to travel so fast.
Scraps are 6061-T6511. Did use dedicated stainless brush and acetone.
I'll cut back Hz from 100 to 60 and cut back on cleaning
I have 1/8 filler at my shop. Both 4043 and 5356....swap it out?
Did I miss anything? I appreciate all the suggestions. Now I'm itching to get back and try it.
G-ManBart wrote:
For 1/8" thick aluminum I'd set it for 125A
one of the common problem with aluminium welding is running low amps and traveling to slow. the problem with going slow is your pour more heat into the part and end up overheating it. so you have to go at a decent pace. better to be hotter and faster than cold and slow.
the 140 amps is ok, a bit on the cold side if anything. 125 amps is way to cold. you want the puddle to form in a few seconds. if your having to wait your way to cold.
the other thing is its a lot easier with a pedal so you can reduce amps as things heat up.
frequency was ok. 60hz will give your more heat for the given amps.
3/32 filler is fine. i prefer 5356 but a lot of 6061 applications means you need to use 4043. so good to practise both.
Hot short cracking with 4043 is common. Its a base metal dilution issue. I am not smart enough to explain it, maybe someone else here can pick up the ball. I am sure you can Google it.
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tweake wrote:
one of the common problem with aluminium welding is running low amps and traveling to slow. the problem with going slow is your pour more heat into the part and end up overheating it. so you have to go at a decent pace. better to be hotter and faster than cold and slow.
the 140 amps is ok, a bit on the cold side if anything. 125 amps is way to cold. you want the puddle to form in a few seconds. if your having to wait your way to cold.
the other thing is its a lot easier with a pedal so you can reduce amps as things heat up.
I have run stacks and stacks of coupons and projects with 1/8" thick aluminum, with many different machines set at 125A and never had any sort of problems....puddle starts in a reasonable amount of time (1-2 seconds going off memory) and I can travel as fast as I can feed wire. I don't see how there's any chance it's way too cold.
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Jakedaawg wrote:Hot short cracking with 4043 is common. Its a base metal dilution issue. I am not smart enough to explain it, maybe someone else here can pick up the ball. I am sure you can Google it.
I don't personally consider it to be common when welding 6061. I think it's more the rare exception when proper technique is used. If the parts are thick or otherwise large, a preheat will help not only getting the puddle moving, but also potential cracking issues as it will help to reduce the "hot short" effect.
tweake wrote:
one of the common problem with aluminium welding is running low amps and traveling to slow. the problem with going slow is your pour more heat into the part and end up overheating it. so you have to go at a decent pace. better to be hotter and faster than cold and slow.
the 140 amps is ok, a bit on the cold side if anything. 125 amps is way to cold. you want the puddle to form in a few seconds. if your having to wait your way to cold.
the other thing is its a lot easier with a pedal so you can reduce amps as things heat up.
I have run stacks and stacks of coupons and projects with 1/8" thick aluminum, with many different machines set at 125A and never had any sort of problems....puddle starts in a reasonable amount of time (1-2 seconds going off memory) and I can travel as fast as I can feed wire. I don't see how there's any chance it's way too cold.
seeing as you have a few millers, miller weld calc shows minimum 125amps to 160 amps depending on joint config.
the cavate is it depends on your setup a bit as well. small cup, less cleaning, low freq all put more heat into it so you can run lower amps.
hello. been looking at the pictures ..... to my OLD eyes, it appears that there are several stops and starts, which may cause reason for the cracks to start and follow the weld bead. At the start and stop points there is porosity which again be cause of cracking. You may aslo be pulling junk from the bottom side of the material. Your gas flow is kinda heavy ... LPM is about the size of the cup (6 cup, 6 LPM) Some of the posts in here have shown 2x the cup size, BUT it is in CFM .... different animal than LPM. Also, the tilt on the torch should only be minimal, you just want to be able to peak at the tungsten and keep the tungsten close to the work. Practice and be patient. Every day is a learning experience. Don't believe me ,,,, watch the service manager at auto repair facility when he says,,,HMMM, never saw that happen before.
tweake wrote:
seeing as you have a few millers, miller weld calc shows minimum 125amps to 160 amps depending on joint config.
the cavate is it depends on your setup a bit as well. small cup, less cleaning, low freq all put more heat into it so you can run lower amps.
No doubt, but I've done the same with my Everlast and even one of the new Harbor Freight ProTIG 205 as well without issue. In this case he's just talking about running a bead on a 1/8" coupon rather than a joint so it shouldn't be too critical. An actual joint will certainly change things.
There's a drill I saw a while back that I like to use when I want to test a machine because it covers a lot of ground...1/8" coupons, 125A, and 100hz (going off memory) for inverter machines you can adjust. On the fillet weld it's right about the minimum to get a puddle started quickly enough, and you run almost max amperage the whole time. That would certainly be easier to set at 150A or so to get started. I think they suggest limiting it to 125A so folks don't blast through it in the beginning, but that's just a guess.
He's using a Primeweld 225 like the OP, so it should translate pretty well.
tweake wrote:
seeing as you have a few millers, miller weld calc shows minimum 125amps to 160 amps depending on joint config.
the cavate is it depends on your setup a bit as well. small cup, less cleaning, low freq all put more heat into it so you can run lower amps.
No doubt, but I've done the same with my Everlast and even one of the new Harbor Freight ProTIG 205 as well without issue. In this case he's just talking about running a bead on a 1/8" coupon rather than a joint so it shouldn't be too critical. An actual joint will certainly change things.
There's a drill I saw a while back that I like to use when I want to test a machine because it covers a lot of ground...1/8" coupons, 125A, and 100hz (going off memory) for inverter machines you can adjust. On the fillet weld it's right about the minimum to get a puddle started quickly enough, and you run almost max amperage the whole time. That would certainly be easier to set at 150A or so to get started. I think they suggest limiting it to 125A so folks don't blast through it in the beginning, but that's just a guess.
He's using a Primeweld 225 like the OP, so it should translate pretty well.
i prefer a lot higher amps so you avoid doing the usual beginner thing of going so slow you over heat it. then they think their amps are to high and reduce them, and it gets worse. imho better to error on the high side.
Cut back on flow to 8 LPH
Put up slope and down slope at 0 as I read in another thread that can affect pedal response on the Primeweld.....IT DOES
Cut amps to 135
cut Hrz to about 60
cut cleaning back as well
Used 5356 filler 3/32
Things went way better this time out. Can't thank you all enough for the suggestions. One additional issue, I noticed the dial for auto darkening got moved from 8/12 down to 5/8. This caused me to be only seeing a ball of arc rather than the actual puddle. Probably bumped it taking the helmet on / off, laying it down, etc. Put some tape on it and....WOW !! I can actually see what I'm doing now.
Still not as good as I'd like, but I'm more confident now. Played with some coupons after ward as well. Yeah, I still have some work to do.
Thanks again for helping the new guy!
**Edit to add*** Also concentrated on my torch angle and arc length. Yes, it was laid over tooo far and now that I can see, was able to shorten arc length.
it looks cold. (keep in mind its a photo and things look different in real life).
do not be afraid of high amps. you can always throttle back if you need to.
Now you're getting somewhere! That's a huge improvement and looks pretty sound. Once you get to that point it's really just little things so the hard part is over!
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tweake wrote:it looks cold. (keep in mind its a photo and things look different in real life).
do not be afraid of high amps. you can always throttle back if you need to.
Definitely cold. Bump up the amps! Travel speed looks very good.
The early welds were a great illustration showing a need to clean the parts first. You had more crap and contamination than you could shake a stick at. That compounds heat issues. Cracks need a place to start, and dirt supplies that start splendidly. I say all this in case you thought your part cleanup was ok at first, it was not.
Looking better now though.
(edit)
I should also point out that when welding aluminum, cleaning the filler rod is way more important than it is when doing steel. The aluminum has loads of draw lube on it from when they made the wire. That's the black gunk you see when you wipe them down. I don't care what you clean it with, even a dry cloth is better than nothing. But there's a BUNCH of gunk on filler metal. And it's not really a bad thing, it helps to control oxidation to some degree. It just needs cleaned off before you weld with it.
BugHunter wrote:The early welds were a great illustration showing a need to clean the parts first. You had more crap and contamination than you could shake a stick at. That compounds heat issues. Cracks need a place to start, and dirt supplies that start splendidly. I say all this in case you thought your part cleanup was ok at first, it was not.
Looking better now though.
(edit)
I should also point out that when welding aluminum, cleaning the filler rod is way more important than it is when doing steel. The aluminum has loads of draw lube on it from when they made the wire. That's the black gunk you see when you wipe them down. I don't care what you clean it with, even a dry cloth is better than nothing. But there's a BUNCH of gunk on filler metal. And it's not really a bad thing, it helps to control oxidation to some degree. It just needs cleaned off before you weld with it.
I THOUGHT I had 'em pretty clean. I have a dedicated SS wire brush and acetone and used both. But yes, I'll pay extra attn from here on out. Also, I think the start / stop didn't help much either. Let the crud being cleaned away while welding re establish itself. Probably shoulda cleaned / brushed after every stop.
Thanks, I always wipe down filler with acetone...sometimes several times if there is a lull in the welding. And yes, the rag comes out black in those spots.
tweake wrote:it looks cold. (keep in mind its a photo and things look different in real life).
do not be afraid of high amps. you can always throttle back if you need to.
Definitely cold. Bump up the amps! Travel speed looks very good.
Damn guys! Thank goodness I gots me a Tig finger. The square tubing was already getting a little more than warm
tweake wrote:it looks cold. (keep in mind its a photo and things look different in real life).
do not be afraid of high amps. you can always throttle back if you need to.
Definitely cold. Bump up the amps! Travel speed looks very good.
Damn guys! Thank goodness I gots me a Tig finger. The square tubing was already getting a little more than warm
tig fingers are great especially those spots where you have to prop your hand really close. i often just use one as a pad and slide on that.
the other trick is to clamp a support on, something you can slide your arm on.
I have a dedicated SS wire brush and acetone and used both. But yes, I'll pay extra attn from here on out. Also, I think the start / stop didn't help much either. Let the crud being cleaned away while welding re establish itself. Probably shoulda cleaned / brushed after every stop.